#1
Hey all, I am looking to upgrade my rig, currently I am running a marshall vs265r 2x12 combo with 2 marshall 1x12 extension cabinets. My current rig is ok but not really doing what I am wanting it to.. I came here to ask the experts because I have had horrible luck with buying amps in the past. I have had this marshall for about 15 years or so and I keep coming back to it because every amp I have bought just does not measure up but at the same time I am looking for more than the marshall is giving me but I don't want to waste any more money on amps that don't do it for me.

Amps I have tried:

THD univalve, excellent quality, great tone but not enough gain

Carvin V3. Very versitile but sounded like crap when cranked.

Peavy 5150 combo. WAY too much gain (I think is why it sounded so bad), sounded horrible when turned up and sounded "loose" if that makes sense.

Line 6, Sound OK, but do not have enough " dialability" for me, too hard to get them right where you want them.

Behringer lx100h, My favorite of all the amps that I've had believe it or not, absolutely smoked and blew away everyone that heard it.. got rid of it because I am a dummy

Peavy XXL: sounded just like the carvin

That's about all I've owned, I have also played through one of the jcm2000 DSL reissues and while yes it sounded good, it didn't have enough low end for me.. too trebly.

What I am using it for:

I am a rythym gutarist for a hard rock/metal band.. we are not extremely heavy, no where near death metal or anything of that sort but we do play pretty heavy.. I do a very small amount of lead stuff but keeping the bottom end going is my main concern. The lead guitarist plays a JCM2000DSL on the clean channel with a pod xd live pedal and his sound is awesome, tone, tightness, and no feedback..

What I am looking for:

I need something that has a huge bottom end, being the rythym guy I want to shake the house with this thing, we tune down 1/2 step for some songs but the major stuff is tuned down.. 1 1/2 steps down on low e and 1/2 step on the rest. c# g# c# f# a# d#. i need to keep it clear as there are some chords that ring and I do not need those muddy but I want to be able to really thump on the power stuff, also I need good clean because we do have a few songs that have ringing clean chords and single string progressions that need to be clear as a bell! I know having those 2 together is asking alot! I gues SUPER tight bottom end with good clean is what I'm getting at! Complete opposite of the 5150!! that amp's bottom end was terrible, the chords sounded just so loose, it's hard to describe in words but it sounded terrible and when I wanted to palm mute and just chug that was even worse!

I feel like I am asking for a unicorn here, but hopefully someone has played what I am describing

I am thinking about a dual/triple recto though I hear the bottom end is loose without and OD pedal, can't confirm because I have not played one, but have been told this by others... Randall warhead, JVM410h, Blackstar club 50.. I don't even know what else.. problem I have is that the closest large music store to me GC is 50 miles away and they have terrible stock on amps so going to play one in person is an issue..

I have also had issues in the past where the amp sounded good until it was turned up to practice levels, the Carvin V3 is the perfect example.. At home it was awesome and I told the guys in the band they weren't going to believe how great this amp was but when I took it and turned it up it was aweful! both me and the other guitarist tweaked and tweaked and we never could get a good sound out of it with high volume..

I am looking at something in the sub $1500 range for 1/2 stack so probably used which is fine as long as it does what I am wanting.. I don't have a brand preference or a tube/solid state preference but I just want to be able to buy an amp which does what I need and be able to stop buying amps and losing money on them reselling them because they end up not being what I want.. so guys and girls HELP!!

P.S would prefer to be able to plug straight into the amp, not really a pedal guy, also not really wanting to do a big pedal like the other guitarist has, but hey if it's what I gotta do.... Just hoping there is an amp out there for me!

Here is one of my band's heavier songs so you guys can kind of get the sound I am looking for

http://youtu.be/vb2S6LHbs_4
#2
Mark IV.

Diezel & VHT as well, but I doubt they're in your price range.

Dual Rec would have been my second choice, but without something like a tubescreamer in front it will get very loose.

V3: I'm surprised to hear this. While I've always preferred the JSX over these I never had a problem getting a good tone at loud volumes.

5150: Turn the gain down then? Use a boost to tighten. I'm surprised that you'd call this amp loose, while I've only played on a couple times it seemed very tight to me.

Part of the problem is that you can't have a huge bottom end and stay tight and the same time. 90% of the time the problems you're describing is caused by too much bass and at any show there's a good chance the soundman will cut everything below 120Hz as that's the bassists territory.
#3
Yep, just to echo the post above mine, what sounds good on your own will not sound good with the other instruments added.

I'm sure you already appreciate, as you play in a band, but you really need to define your section of the frequency spectrum and focus there; you can't have it all.
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#4
+1 to what icronic said about having a huge bottom end and staying tight.

You can always look at the Peavey 6534+ the bottom end sounds a lot tighter and more percussive than the 5150/6505 series imo, plus the clean channel is improved.

Another option, check out the Big Crunch One Knob, you can find demo's on youtube and you can check out Kyle Schutt from The Sword using it too
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-
Line 6 Vetta 2
Peavey 6534+
Big Crunch One Knob
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#5
Thanks for the replies. I believe I mis stated what I was looking for. When I say "huge bottom end" what I'm meaning is tight percussive thump. Not so much bassy as just focused and "brutal" for lack of a better term. I want to accent the bass rather than be the bass but I need something that stays aggressive. I'm sorry I'm not good with putting these ideas into words but just a tight responsive sound that has a good strong drive to it I guess would be describing it better.

As far as the 5150 I do want to say that I did turn the gain down, but it still just sounded sloppy to me. Maybe because I had the combo and not a half stack? Not sure as I've never played a half stack 5150.
#6
If I were you I'd investigate the Laney GH or VH series. To a lesser extent the Ironhearts, they're a bit more "modern" sounding. Used any of these run you sub- $1000, so you could even possibly go new.
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Amps and the like:
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Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#7
Any opinions on the Peavy 3120?? looks promising and the youtube videos on it sound great!
#8
The 3120 is just the XXX rebadged and it comes with EL34 stock instead of the 6L6 that was in the XXX stock. The EQ section on them is active, so it will respond very different than alot of amps.

I think alot of your problem is your EQing the amps with your eyes and not your ears. The fact you said you liked the Behringer better than any of those other amps was my first clue.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
Honestly, I think you're used to SS amps. Your inclination towards the Behringer and appreciate of the distortion from a POD is proof of that. Not saying that those other amps didn't sound bad, but SS and digital amps typically sound thinner, tighter, more saturated, more forgiving, and cleaner than tube amps. You really have to be a good player to make a tube amp sound great.

I don't really care for the amps that you criticized, or the way they feel either. But I can't say that I thought the 5150 was loose by any means, at least on the high gain channel.

Try the Jet City JCA100HDM. Cleans aren't wonderful, but the crunch and OD are both tight and very big/thick in the lower frequencies. It also doesn't have the nasty sounding mids that turn me off as with most higher gain amps.
#11
Any decent Mesa or Marshall since JCM 800 and a closed back cab will deliver what you need if you understand how to get it. I suspect this is less of an amp problem and more of a understanding-physics-of-sound problem.

Bottom sounds too loose wide open? Turn down the bass until it tightens up.
Too much gain causing mush? Turn down the gain until you find the sweet spot.
Not enough gain? Add a boost pedal in front.
Ice pick highs? Turn down the treble until the highs smooth out.

Easy breezy.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#12
Orange Thunderverb or TH100
Mesa Dual Rectifier 2 channel version
Peavey 6505+ or JSX

Make sure you're running a tubescreamer into the front of whatever you're playing. It makes a night and day difference for the character of your palm mutes, and getting rid of flub. Especially on 6505s.

Also if the amp has Presence or Resonance controls, make sure you play with them. They affect the highs and lows respectively, and make a massive difference.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
Last edited by Offworld92 at Jul 14, 2014,
#13
Well guys, I know it's been a while but I decided to go with a DSL100, the older JCM 2000 version. I like it, tons of power and it really sounds great. I appreciate all your replies.

I wanted to ask though, someone above said I didn't know how to play and I didn't know how to EQ since I like solid state better, what's up with that? I don't mean to sound rude but those comments are sorta offensive, I play fine and I can operate knobs but that still doesn't make an amp do something it doesn't do.. Either way it's all worked out now.
#14
Quote by Chiliphil1
Well guys, I know it's been a while but I decided to go with a DSL100, the older JCM 2000 version. I like it, tons of power and it really sounds great. I appreciate all your replies.

I wanted to ask though, someone above said I didn't know how to play and I didn't know how to EQ since I like solid state better, what's up with that? I don't mean to sound rude but those comments are sorta offensive, I play fine and I can operate knobs but that still doesn't make an amp do something it doesn't do.. Either way it's all worked out now.


ok don't take this wrong. you liked a Behringer the best and lets face it they aren't known for making good amps at all. most guys think they can play and know how to eq whether they do or not. we often get guys here who do the scooped mids thing and then complain they can't be heard. not saying any of that applies to you just answering as to why that might have been said.
#15
I'm surprised you didn't like the "better" amps...but liked the Behringer

If you like more thump I think Mesa Dual Recto will be your best bet, look at Orange tube amps and one of the bigger Blackstar heads. Sounds to me like you need a darker sounding amp as well.

Maybe a B-52 will hit all the marks but they're not very reliable.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/b-52-atx-100-100w-tube-guitar-amp-head

It is possible that you're looking for speakers that have more lower end, so look at Jensen and Eminence as opposed to Celestions.
#16
Quote by diabolical
I'm surprised you didn't like the "better" amps...but liked the Behringer

If you like more thump I think Mesa Dual Recto will be your best bet, look at Orange tube amps and one of the bigger Blackstar heads. Sounds to me like you need a darker sounding amp as well.

Maybe a B-52 will hit all the marks but they're not very reliable.
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/amplifiers-effects/b-52-atx-100-100w-tube-guitar-amp-head

It is possible that you're looking for speakers that have more lower end, so look at Jensen and Eminence as opposed to Celestions.

Celestion makes speakers that handle lows just fine, don't know where you've been the last 30years?
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#17
Quote by monwobobbo
ok don't take this wrong. you liked a Behringer the best and lets face it they aren't known for making good amps at all. most guys think they can play and know how to eq whether they do or not. we often get guys here who do the scooped mids thing and then complain they can't be heard. not saying any of that applies to you just answering as to why that might have been said.


I get that I guess, normal experience with newbies, that's fine and I will agree that behringer isn't exactly known for top notch stuff but I had the lx1200h modeling head and I promise you it didn't sound like you think. I took it a friend of mines house where lives the jcm800 2203 that he has owned since the 80's and even he liked the behringer better than his Marshall, I've had other behringers and they are junk, but not that one, not when you know how to set the knobs on it. I've been playing a long time but I know how people are about thinking they know stuff they don't so I'm not upset with the post I was just making a statement that a blanket guess at why this or that wasn't working may not be the best idea. Some things work for some people and not others, hence the reason for the many brands and models of amps. The ones I tried didn't work for me but my Marshall does now.

As far as speakers I bought a Marshall 1960av cab with the Marshall vintage 30's and it's great. I was thinking about the g12k100 speaker which I may at some point swap into the cab or maybe even do an x pattern with the v30's but I'm not sure, it's workikg pretty well right now.
#18
Musicians friend have the JCA 100 HDM's on Stupid Deal right now for 500, I'd jump on that if there's some left.
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#19
Quote by Robbgnarly
Celestion makes speakers that handle lows just fine, don't know where you've been the last 30years?


Well, they do have more midrange slant or bump, something I've heard personally on most Celestion models.
#20
Quote by diabolical
Well, they do have more midrange slant or bump, something I've heard personally on most Celestion models.

Most guitar speakers regardless of brand have more mids/highs than anything else because the guitar is a mid oriented instrument. Notice I said most, because there are some exceptions
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#21
yeah i was going to say a marshall or a splawn...i could see a mesa.
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#22
Quote by Chiliphil1
I get that I guess, normal experience with newbies, that's fine and I will agree that behringer isn't exactly known for top notch stuff but I had the lx1200h modeling head and I promise you it didn't sound like you think. I took it a friend of mines house where lives the jcm800 2203 that he has owned since the 80's and even he liked the behringer better than his Marshall, I've had other behringers and they are junk, but not that one, not when you know how to set the knobs on it. I've been playing a long time but I know how people are about thinking they know stuff they don't so I'm not upset with the post I was just making a statement that a blanket guess at why this or that wasn't working may not be the best idea. Some things work for some people and not others, hence the reason for the many brands and models of amps. The ones I tried didn't work for me but my Marshall does now.

As far as speakers I bought a Marshall 1960av cab with the Marshall vintage 30's and it's great. I was thinking about the g12k100 speaker which I may at some point swap into the cab or maybe even do an x pattern with the v30's but I'm not sure, it's workikg pretty well right now.


A 1960 cab with V30s is tits so don't touch it.

Honestly several of the things you said in the OP just didn't jive with the experienced players here. A V3M or 5150 and a good closed back cab should have given you that big tight percussive bottom thump you crave easily and we know a bunch of players who use them and get exactly that. Either the speaker choice was wrong, the amp was broken or the player didn't know how to use it. A simple process of elimination, sorry if you took that stuff personally. Your affection for Valvestate, Behringer and Line 6 was also a red flag as I get hives any time I walk in a room and someone is playing one. I don't even have to see the amp and my throat starts closing up right away. It's like someone pushed the suck button.

No one intended to cut you down but we are not there and can't hear the issue for ourselves. We can only go by what you describe to us and your descriptions did not match our realities. Glad you got it all sorted.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#23
Quote by Cajundaddy
A 1960 cab with V30s is tits so don't touch it.

Honestly several of the things you said in the OP just didn't jive with the experienced players here. A V3M or 5150 and a good closed back cab should have given you that big tight percussive bottom thump you crave easily and we know a bunch of players who use them and get exactly that. Either the speaker choice was wrong, the amp was broken or the player didn't know how to use it. A simple process of elimination, sorry if you took that stuff personally. Your affection for Valvestate, Behringer and Line 6 was also a red flag as I get hives any time I walk in a room and someone is playing one. I don't even have to see the amp and my throat starts closing up right away. It's like someone pushed the suck button.

No one intended to cut you down but we are not there and can't hear the issue for ourselves. We can only go by what you describe to us and your descriptions did not match our realities. Glad you got it all sorted.



Well, I think you hit the nail right there, speaker choice.. As far as the v3 I was using a Crate cabinet so I am sure that's why it wasn't very good and now that I think about it something was wrong with the circuit in there as well, I had to run it on 50 watts because when it was on 100 it just made a sound like a helicopter, also the 5150 was a combo not a head so I am sure that contributed as well. I have read lots of info on combos not sounding very good.

I did mention the univalve which I liked it just didn't have enough gain for what I play but it was really good for classic rock type stuff, I also had a jet city 20 watt head which I ran through 2 g12t75's and absolutely loved. I have played through tube amps that sounded good so I know it's not me it was just those amps..

I also wanted to mention for clarification (not argument) that the line6 I speak of is the pod xd live, not a spider or something like that, the spider amps are sh*t and I agree with that but the xd live is based on the vetta and it is a whole different animal it actually sounds good. As I stated before the Behringer sounded amazing to everyone who ever heard it, even the die hard Marshall guy I know said it smoked HIS 2203, now I did buy one of their v-tone amps and sold it within a week it was bad but the v-amp head was actually pretty good. And all told the 5150 sounded really good when the volume on the guitar was about half way, this gave me an awesome singing classic distortion, it was when I pushed it into the high gain that I use with the band that it came apart for me.

Thanks for the reply.