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#1
Hello There
I'm looking to get a tube amp head for under $500 with a minimum of 20w. I play blues and I like a clean tone, with a transparent overdrive for leads. I saw this amp for $400. It's 150w, is a plexi style amp, and I'd run it through a Peavey PT112 modded PA speaker, fit with a Jensen Jet Falcon.

Does anyone have any experience with this amp? If so, any positives or negatives or comments concerning what tone I'll be using it for would be appreciative. Thanks
#2
Why does it have to be a minimum of 20w?

I havent had any experience with a Bugera amp personally but the general concensus is:
Sound: good
Reliability: awful (bring a fire extinguisher)
#3
*edit* Nevermind. I read 1990.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
Last edited by MaaZeus at Jul 16, 2014,
#6
Quote by BlueJayWater
I need at least 20w for gigging. Reliability is a top priority for me. How often does it fail?

Bugera is known for very bad QC when compared to other brands. I had a 333 head for a few years and yes they sound very nice, but it was in the shop every few months (lucky my brother is the tech). The input jsck went bad. There were cold/broken solder joints all over the tube sockets. The power cable conection broke internaly on the PCB.


I take very good care of all my equipment, so this was not from any kind of abuse, just very poor QC
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#8
Quote by BlueJayWater
I need at least 20w for gigging. Reliability is a top priority for me. How often does it fail?



Bugera are owned by Behringer and most of their products are copies of other famous amps. Like 1990 being JCM900 Dual Reverb and 6260 being Peavey 5150/6505. The sound is good just like the amp they copy but they are made from cheaper parts and quality control is poorer and this shows in the price. You may get a good one that can last a long time or you get a dud and have to play lottery with warranty in hopes of getting a better one. Quality control should have gotten better by now but I still wouldn't rely on one if you are a gigging musician.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#9
I didn't know behringer was their parent company. I have a vendetta against them because of their poor quality and horrible customer service. That settles that, no bugera.
#10
Sorta sad that the QC on Bugeras have the reputation they do; my impression of current amps, as of the January NAMM show, is that they've got that pretty much under control, and that they're not experiencing the same problems any more. At the very least, the chances of your getting a problem amp from among the current production (check your guitar store's stock for age) is about the same as any other off-shore sourced amp.

I'd also have to take issue with any negatives associated with the "knock-off" business. They've done a pretty good job of mimicking the sound quality of the amps they're aiming at (we're agreed, it seems, on that point), and they sound good. Given the number of amps ranging from cheap to very expensive that do that, it's not a bad thing.
#11
Quote by dspellman
Sorta sad that the QC on Bugeras have the reputation they do; my impression of current amps, as of the January NAMM show, is that they've got that pretty much under control, and that they're not experiencing the same problems any more. At the very least, the chances of your getting a problem amp from among the current production (check your guitar store's stock for age) is about the same as any other off-shore sourced amp.

I'd also have to take issue with any negatives associated with the "knock-off" business. They've done a pretty good job of mimicking the sound quality of the amps they're aiming at (we're agreed, it seems, on that point), and they sound good. Given the number of amps ranging from cheap to very expensive that do that, it's not a bad thing.



Its kinda funny. Bugera first had the melting power plug disaster, which they soon fixed (though good luck getting rid of fire extinguisher jokes. ), but general unreliability remained for some time though it apparently steadily improved from that. Then they introduced the new Infinium technology and reliability took a nosedive again. But I am hopeful that they have managed to fix it by now, it has been quite a while since they introduced the Infinium line.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#12
Quote by MaaZeus
Its kinda funny. Bugera first had the melting power plug disaster, which they soon fixed ((a) though good luck getting rid of fire extinguisher jokes. ), but general unreliability remained for some time though it apparently steadily improved from that. (b) Then they introduced the new Infinium technology and reliability took a nosedive again. But I am hopeful that they have managed to fix it by now, it has been quite a while since they introduced the Infinium line.


(a) LOL agreed

(b) Did it? (serious question, not sarcasm)

The prices are very, very tempting on thomann (~£260 for either the 1960 or the 6260, and that's for the infinium models, too), but obviously you don't want something that's breaking all the time, either, since that's a pain in the ass (and a false economy).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#13
Quote by Dave_Mc
(a) LOL agreed

(b) Did it? (serious question, not sarcasm)

The prices are very, very tempting on thomann (~£260 for either the 1960 or the 6260, and that's for the infinium models, too), but obviously you don't want something that's breaking all the time, either, since that's a pain in the ass (and a false economy).


I have no proof but it seemed like it. There were less complaints about broken Bugera and people talked about them having fixed the old issues. Although it could be because people just stopped buying them that much...

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#14
You could look at a Peavey Windsor, it's a JCM800 clone. And JCM800s are similar to Plexis.

What exactly is "infinium technology"
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#15
^Supposed to be a tube life monitoring system, except it rarely works right

Quote by dspellman
At the very least, the chances of your getting a problem amp from among the current production (check your guitar store's stock for age) is about the same as any other off-shore sourced amp.
I'd have to disagree with this statement, Jet City (among a few others) are producing spectacularly well-made amplifiers. It's not the location that's causing the shoddy amps, it's simply their lax Quality Control


Speaking of which.. OP you might find one of the 50W Jet Cities to your liking. These amps are Chinese copies of high end Soldanos, and are designed by Mike Soldano himself (he even owns part of the company). Their build quality is top notch and their customer service is solid to boot!

The JCA50H head (and JCA5012 combo) are based on the Soldano Hot Rod Plus, and the JCA5212RC combo is based off the Soldano Lucky 13 (one of my favorite amps). I think you'll like the Lucky 13 better than the Hot Rod, as it has a dedicated clean channel.
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[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
Last edited by Flux'D at Jul 16, 2014,
#16
What you want is a peavey Windsor.
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#17
An oldschool Peavey Butcher would be a good choice as well. The 80's models are significantly different than the current Peavey amp that bears the same name btw
Endorsed by Dean Guitars 07-10
2003 Gibson Flying V w/ Moon Inlay
2006 Fender All-American Partscaster
SVK ELP-C500 Custom

1964 Fender Vibro Champ
1989 Peavey VTM60

[thread="1166208"]Gibsons Historic Designs[/thread]
#18
Quote by MaaZeus
I have no proof but it seemed like it. There were less complaints about broken Bugera and people talked about them having fixed the old issues. Although it could be because people just stopped buying them that much...


yeah thanks

Quote by Flux'D
^Supposed to be a tube life monitoring system, except it rarely works right


Yeah and also it claims to let you swap in power tubes singly, and not need to bias the thing. Assuming it works right. I have no idea if it does.

EDIT: I agree that a Jet City is by far the safer choice, but if he wants something that sounds like a Marshall Plexi (or even an 800), I dunno if a Jet City will do that (not the 50H I have, anyway). It's not a billion miles away from a hot-rodded Marshall (I think), but it doesn't really sound the same, either, it's a fair bit more compressed- and modern-sounding.

As I said, though, I've only tried the 50 watt head I own. I'm a total fan of the Jet Cities (obviously ) and agree they're silly good value for money in Europe, but they're only good value if they do the tone(s) you want, all the same (just like any amp).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Jul 16, 2014,
#19
I should clarify, I actually don't care that it's a plexi style. I prefer just one channel, I never would have used the other inputs. As long as it's tube, over 20W, and under $500. The tone I can (begrudgingly) work with otherwise.
#20
Quote by BlueJayWater
I didn't know behringer was their parent company. I have a vendetta against them because of their poor quality and horrible customer service. That settles that, no bugera.
Good man.
Go for a quality used amp instead some piece of Behringer junk. Maybe try to find (in no particular order):
Peavey VTM.
Peavey Windsor head.
Sovtek Mig50

All would be solid choices.

In new amps maybe a Jet City 5212, that's the Lucky 13 one.
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Marshall 1960A
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#21
I've had a Bugera (333XL Infinium) for a year and a half used at home , gigged with every weekend, used in the studio etc...no problems at all & solid as a rock...sound-wise it's shockingly good. There are a couple more of them (1990/6262) at the jam space I use & ditto...no problems at all. The only real reliability issues Bugera ever really had were those melting tranny clips which they replaced ages ago. I think the competition's had a field day with that ever since.
Last edited by GodOfEmptyness at Jul 17, 2014,
#22
Not every Pinto blew up either. You gonna go buy one?
It's not just that clip catching fire, we get heaps of people asking for help because they've turned up their toes. 311? You still got that log?
I hate to break it to you but you're playing a piece of Behringer shit and you got lucky.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#23
Quote by Cathbard

I hate to break it to you but you're playing a piece of Behringer shit and you got lucky.


Maybe & maybe not. I've posted in other 'Bugera bashing' threads elsewhere before & the pattern is always the guy's who actually own them (and can prove it) saying the'y've never had a day's trouble/ their's has been solid as a rock /only ever had to swap out tubes etc. > vs. the guy's who've never owned or played one saying stuff like they sound great in clips (can't really deny that) but don't cut through in a mix (lol!) / they played one & then it broke etc...

Where I really got lucky was getting an amp that sounds as fantastic as mine does for about the fifth of the price of other amps that sound anywhere near as good
#24
Quote by GodOfEmptyness
Maybe & maybe not. I've posted in other 'Bugera bashing' threads elsewhere before & the pattern is always the guy's who actually own them (and can prove it) saying the'y've never had a day's trouble/ their's has been solid as a rock /only ever had to swap out tubes etc. > vs. the guy's who've never owned or played one saying stuff like they sound great in clips (can't really deny that) but don't cut through in a mix (lol!) / they played one & then it broke etc...

Where I really got lucky was getting an amp that sounds as fantastic as mine does for about the fifth of the price of other amps that sound anywhere near as good

As a bugera 333 owner fror 3.5 yrs. They sound good, but are built like shit. Mine was plauged with issues over the time I had mine (yes it did sound good). I have seen more than 3-4 Bugera's die during live performances (I run live sound), to me that speaks volumes about how crap they really are.

It's good that yours is issue free, but many are not so don't forget that.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#25
Yeah, haha, very droll. Nobody said they sound bad, they don't. You're lucky because it hasn't let you down in the middle of the gig. THAT'S what you pay the extra for - not the sound. Reliability. Reliability counts, it counts for a lot.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#26
Quote by Cathbard
Yeah, haha, very droll. Nobody said they sound bad, they don't. You're lucky because it hasn't let you down in the middle of the gig. THAT'S what you pay the extra for - not the sound. Reliability. Reliability counts, it counts for a lot.


Yup, I imaine most gigging musicians would take an amp with 7/10 sound and 10/10 reliability than the other way round.

So long as the sound isnt absolutley dreadful reliability is arguably more important.

For gigging that is, recording is a different matter
#27
A couple of years ago...they hired a big-name new QC firm, upgraded all their plant machinery including new wave soldering presses etc & introduced the Infinium tech when they realised a majority of their problems came from tubes going bad during transport..and people (their market is largely inexperienced users & kids) blaming the amps. they even upgraded the finish quality (quality tolex/reinforced head-case/leather handles etc)

ie from this..




To this...




Anything produced post 2012-13 should be pretty solid....ie no more or less temperamental than any other tube amp.

I read up on it when I was buying mine (lol I'd heard the horror stories too... ) & in my case (and my experience with other recently produced Bugera's owned by friends/other guitar players I know) ...no one's had any reliability problems that were out of the ordinary.
#28
Quote by LivinJoke84
Yup, I imaine most gigging musicians would take an amp with 7/10 sound and 10/10 reliability than the other way round.

So long as the sound isnt absolutley dreadful reliability is arguably more important.

For gigging that is, recording is a different matter

Absolutely. If I had to choose between a Bandit and a Bugera, I'd take the Bandit every time. I hate the sound of Bandits - but they never break.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 17, 2014,
#29
By the way I'm not a Bugera rep or associated with the company in any way at all ....just to clear that up

..just a really happy owner
#30
Man, they're still Behringer. You expect me to trust Behringer? Do I sound like I just got off the turnip truck? It's Behringer FFS.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#32
It takes more than a year to win back trust when you've absolutely destroyed your reputation for your company's entire existence. Even if what you say is true (hell if I know either way) it isn't going to be accepted as truth for a long time.
RG351DX - Bridge Dragonfire Screamer, Mid+Neck Fender Hot Noiseless
Peavey Valveking 112 - Eminence GB128
AMT E1 > Joyo AC Tone > Dan'o EQ > Shimverb > Digidelay
#33
Quote by tas38
It takes more than a year to win back trust when you've absolutely destroyed your reputation for your company's entire existence. Even if what you say is true (hell if I know either way) it isn't going to be accepted as truth for a long time.


Yep. I still could probably never bring myself to buy a Skoda, despite decades of rave reviews and countless awards.

Its a Skoda. When i was a kid that was a byword for "shite"
#34
I'll admit, I've noticed a decline in the number of screwed up Bugera threads. That doesn't necessarily mean there are less breaking, but being that this community'a whole argument against them was that there have been so many threads about bad ones, it would seem that Bugera may be getting their shit together a bit more. I agree with Michael Wessen, it takes time to get over a bad rep, especially one as spotty as Bugeras, but they will eventually shake some of that funk I they keep producing functioning amps.

TS, I'd recommend taking a look at some of the Peaveys mentioned, and also looking into some Traynors possibly, such as the YCVs. A lot of the amps recommended are single channel, but you'll find that it is hard to find modern single channel amps that aren't some boutique job trying to sound like an old amp.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#35
Skoda lifted their game. Behringer is still Behringer.
They invent a new name to hide the fact that it's made by Behringer because they have such a bad name.
Then they have to rave about "new improved QC" because they turned out to be crap like everybody expected.
Look, it's all better! We've got a leather handle. Oooh look, leather. Real leather. Shiny shiny.

**** off. I mean seriously, just **** off.
It's still Behringer. Dodgey mofos.

Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Jul 17, 2014,
#36
hater's will hate ....just sharing my own experience

Anyone interested in hearing how it sounds? ..my band just (DIY) recorded our new album with it. (Old school doom-death metal ...ie inspired by Candlemass, Autopsy, Morbid Angel, Celtic Frost, Trouble etc..)

New tracks_Medley
#37
So many strong opinions, so few facts...

Or worse, such strong opinions based on the perception of facts not in evidence.

I'd buy one if the price was right.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#38
Quote by Cathbard
Skoda lifted their game.

Close:

Volkswagon lifted Skoda's game.

When Peavey buy Bugera, maybe they'll start to lose the rep.
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#39
^ LOL, good point

Quote by Cathbard
Not every Pinto blew up either. You gonna go buy one?


I think we got a pinto for a hire car on a holiday there a while ago. Wasn't too fussed. Started out thinking "this isn't as bad as I'd been led to believe". luckily we only had it for about 4 days by the end of those 4 days i was glad to give it back.

Quote by Arby911
So many strong opinions, so few facts...

Or worse, such strong opinions based on the perception of facts not in evidence.

I'd buy one if the price was right.


dammit arby the other regulars are doing a pretty good job of killing my GAS
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#40
Quote by GodOfEmptyness
A couple of years ago...they hired a big-name new QC firm, upgraded all their plant machinery including new wave soldering presses etc & introduced the Infinium tech when they realised a majority of their problems came from tubes going bad during transport..and people (their market is largely inexperienced users & kids) blaming the amps. they even upgraded the finish quality (quality tolex/reinforced head-case/leather handles etc)

ie from this..




To this...




Anything produced post 2012-13 should be pretty solid....ie no more or less temperamental than any other tube amp.

I read up on it when I was buying mine (lol I'd heard the horror stories too... ) & in my case (and my experience with other recently produced Bugera's owned by friends/other guitar players I know) ...no one's had any reliability problems that were out of the ordinary.

Sorry to bust your bubble, but changing the jewel covers to amber from blue doesn't do a damn thing for reliability. I have seen several "new infinium" amps that the actual tube monitoring system is busted and it is not because of a bad tube, but bad parts.

Like I said I'm glad your issue free, but don't take your experience as the norm, because from what I've personally seen your in the minority of owners.

And I agree it takes years to build a great reputation and minutes to destroy one.
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Jul 17, 2014,
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