#1
This bothers me a lot because I feel completely lost when I try to figure this stuff out. How should I go about relearning the guitar if you will. I need to start seeing the fretboard as notes and not numbers like tabs and shit. I kind of have an idea but If I do not know the notes I don't see the point. I understand the concept of keys and the sharps in them, I know all the modes but I have a few questions on those but that is irrelevant for now. Anybody else ever have this problem? what ways did you find helped you see the guitar differently in a short time? I come up with some pretty creative shit, I do not want to sound arrogant but I am definitely held back by not knowing notes lol. any exercises or something or some sort of advice would be much appreciated.
#3
Quote by gary78912
This bothers me a lot because I feel completely lost when I try to figure this stuff out. How should I go about relearning the guitar if you will. I need to start seeing the fretboard as notes and not numbers like tabs and shit. I kind of have an idea but If I do not know the notes I don't see the point. I understand the concept of keys and the sharps in them, I know all the modes but I have a few questions on those but that is irrelevant for now. Anybody else ever have this problem? what ways did you find helped you see the guitar differently in a short time? I come up with some pretty creative shit, I do not want to sound arrogant but I am definitely held back by not knowing notes lol. any exercises or something or some sort of advice would be much appreciated.


What have you been doing for 9 years? Just reading tabs? or do you play by ear?

as to your question…. try a method book for learning to read

for learning theory, try taking lessons or a class

Don't be worried about learning it all "fast"…… it takes time. Take it at a pace that's realistic.
#4
Lol just playing songs i like. But i want to take it more seriously since i know i can come up with some good stuff to play. I have lessons saved i understand the concepts i guess the title is misleading i just do not remember the guitar as notes. What can i do to make it easier or some advice for this
#5
Quote by gary78912
Lol just playing songs i like. But i want to take it more seriously since i know i can come up with some good stuff to play. I have lessons saved i understand the concepts i guess the title is misleading i just do not remember the guitar as notes. What can i do to make it easier or some advice for this



Well there are no short cuts…. it IS work and it DOES take time.

That said, I recommend….


Learn to read standard notation in many positions

If you understand key sigs and scales try playing through scales, but think (or say aloud) the note names. Like try C Major at the 8th fret. Play C, Say C….. then D…. then E & so on.
Try that with all 5 patterns…… try it in different keys. Apply method to arpeggios.

When you learn the rhythm guitar parts for songs…. learn the name of each chord, and think of it that way, rather than tabs/numbers
#6
You're not alone, man. I've been playing for almost 5 years, and technique wise, I'd put myself somewhere between intermediate and advanced. But theory wise, I'm less than a beginner. Give me a tab and I'll play it almost like second nature. But, for example, point to a certain string on a certain fret and ask me what note that is, and I'll stare at you with these blank eyes. I know notes and I understand the concept of sharps and flats, but if I want to figure out what note a fret gives, I don't have it memorized. I have to stop for a minute and start "counting" the notes from the open note of that string till I reach the fret, and that always gives me trouble when I'm looking to play a scale relative to a certain note..
#7
Quote by GuitarMunky
Well there are no short cuts…. it IS work and it DOES take time.

That said, I recommend….


Learn to read standard notation in many positions

If you understand key sigs and scales try playing through scales, but think (or say aloud) the note names. Like try C Major at the 8th fret. Play C, Say C….. then D…. then E & so on.
Try that with all 5 patterns…… try it in different keys. Apply method to arpeggios.

When you learn the rhythm guitar parts for songs…. learn the name of each chord, and think of it that way, rather than tabs/numbers

Ok. So a good idea would be to start with the key of C remember all those modes associated with and learn them as notes? Is there like a chart or something with whole steps and half steps for each string? I noticed like the pattern for the E String but the other 4 are different or something. So for the low E it would be 0 1 3 5 7 8 10 12 13 15 17 18. Which in notes is e f g a b d c d e f g... etc. Then its w w w h w w w h right? I forget the pattern but something like that. I hope thats not confusing but the numbers i put were the frets. But the same concepts for the A D G B string.
#8
Quote by Surphyse
You're not alone, man. I've been playing for almost 5 years, and technique wise, I'd put myself somewhere between intermediate and advanced. But theory wise, I'm less than a beginner. Give me a tab and I'll play it almost like second nature. But, for example, point to a certain string on a certain fret and ask me what note that is, and I'll stare at you with these blank eyes. I know notes and I understand the concept of sharps and flats, but if I want to figure out what note a fret gives, I don't have it memorized. I have to stop for a minute and start "counting" the notes from the open note of that string till I reach the fret, and that always gives me trouble when I'm looking to play a scale relative to a certain note..

Ya man its ****in driving me nuts. I wish i realized how much more fun it is to make your own music when i just started learning. All this wasted potential if i do not start learning this now. Really wish i learned notes first..
#9
Quote by gary78912
How should I go about relearning the guitar if you will. I need to start seeing the fretboard as notes and not numbers like tabs and shit.


You want to see the fretboard mostly in terms of INTERVALS, that is the secret. Of course notes as well too, but a basic and solid understanding of intervals, scales, harmony, and voice leading (to your taste) will open up a lifetime of opportunity to progress as a musician.

I have found that it is very , very easy to become distracted on a particular aspect of guitar while there being better alternatives.

Are you able to notate rhythmically what you play? If not, you should because it shows what you are playing is really ingrained in your head and you know where it falls in the musical time frame.

Classically trained piano players have this stuff down cold. It really is what makes or breaks the potential of a good guitar player.

And also keep in mind, this kind of stuff may seem confusing at first..but you CAN learn it and it actually turns out to be pretty simple believe it or not. Honestly, if you can count and know your alphabet you can learn it.
Last edited by Unreal T at Jul 16, 2014,
#10
Quote by Unreal T
You want to see the fretboard mostly in terms of INTERVALS, that is the secret. Of course notes as well too, but a basic and solid understanding of intervals, scales, harmony, and voice leading (to your taste) will open up a lifetime of opportunity to progress as a musician.

I have found that it is very , very easy to become distracted on a particular aspect of guitar while there being better alternatives.

Are you able to notate rhythmically what you play? If not, you should because it shows what you are playing is really ingrained in your head and you know where it falls in the musical time frame.

Classically trained piano players have this stuff down cold. It really is what makes or breaks the potential of a good guitar player.

And also keep in mind, this kind of stuff may seem confusing at first..but you CAN learn it and it actually turns out to be pretty simple believe it or not. Honestly, if you can count and know your alphabet you can learn it.

what does notate rhythmically mean. lol I hope that is not a dumb question. like uhh bpm?
#11
When you look at sheet music, all the notes on it. That is the rhythmic notation. Like sixteenth notes, quarter notes, rests etc.

I mean , you do not have to ...but it sure does help you gain a better sense of what is going on with what you play , rhythmically. Wouldn't you like to be able to know and transcribe if what you just played was some combination of sixteenth notes, eighth notes, tied notes etc.?

bpm is the tempo or "beat" of which the notes are played and divided against. So if your beat is pulsing at 60bpm and you play one note per beat..you are playing quarter notes. Play two notes per beat..that is eighth notes. Play 4 per beat...that is sixteenth notes. Then you can do 3 notes per beat, 7 etc. It goes on and on. So whatever you play against the pulse you should have an idea of what divisions are being played.

Having an excellent sense of time is CRITICAL in becoming a good musician. It is like the oil in your car...if your car has only a cup of oil ...it is not going to run too long. Not understanding time will hold you back as a musician, it did for me for so long and all I was able to do was noodle around hoping to play something good. Big mistake.
Last edited by Unreal T at Jul 16, 2014,
#12
Oh i cant read sheet music for shit that is like another language. Like... i understand some of it like i know all the meanings of the symbols and what a quarter note is for example but what the note is like "E" no idea. Like idk if i played a song and like tapped my fingers on wood or something i can tell if its an eighth or sixteenth note if thats what you mean.
Last edited by gary78912 at Jul 16, 2014,
#13
Yeah that is what I mean, being able to tell whether what was played was sixteenth notes , eighths etc.

As far as reading music in real time on what the specific notes are...that is another skill which may or may not be necessary for your own personal musical goals.

And as I had mentioned before...you NEED to learn intervals, it is CRITICAL. Intervals are the foundation of music, a major fundamental. And intervals are also found in sheet music in the spacing of the note heads.
#14
Quote by Unreal T
Yeah that is what I mean, being able to tell whether what was played was sixteenth notes , eighths etc.

As far as reading music in real time on what the specific notes are...that is another skill which may or may not be necessary for your own personal musical goals.

And as I had mentioned before...you NEED to learn intervals, it is CRITICAL. Intervals are the foundation of music, a major fundamental. And intervals are also found in sheet music in the spacing of the note heads.

Are intervals the same thing i tried to explain before with whole steps and what not?
#15
Yes. But you want to visualize the intervals on the guitar. One of the most important is the interval of a perfect fifth. It has a very distinct shape. Also known as the "Power Chord". Play 6th string fifth fret and 5th string 7th fret. That shape is a fifth. You can play that shape anywhere on the guitar and it will be a fifth. Only except is between the G and B string because the way they are tuned. Try playing the same shape on the G and B
string and you will hear a nasty sound. Try third string second fret and second string fourth fret...that is the shame "shape" but they are not the notes A and E...they are A and Eflat...which is called a diminished fifth interval a.k.a the tritone spanning 6 half steps, NOT 7. That sound is considered to be "dissonant" or unpleasant and wanting to move to a more "resolved" place such as the perfect fifth which is only one fret away to make A and E.

A "perfect fifth interval" has that shape I just demonstrated. Technically it spans a total of 7 half steps. So you can play a fifth a variety of ways on the guitar. Anywhere you can play an A in the bass and an E above it...you will have a fifth interval.

So, now you are familiar with the perfect fifth and the diminished fifth intervals.
Last edited by Unreal T at Jul 16, 2014,
#16
Quote by Unreal T
Yes. But you want to visualize the intervals on the guitar. One of the most important is the interval of a perfect fifth. It has a very distinct shape. Also known as the "Power Chord". Play 6th string fifth fret and 5th string 7th fret. That shape is a fifth. You can play that shape anywhere on the guitar and it will be a fifth. Only except is between the G and B string because the way they are tuned. Try playing the same shape on the G and B
string and you will hear a nasty sound. Try third string second fret and second string fourth fret...that is the shame "shape" but they are not the notes A and E...they are A and Eflat...which is called a diminished fifth interval a.k.a the tritone spanning 6 half steps, NOT 7. That sound is considered to be "dissonant" or unpleasant and wanting to move to a more "resolved" place such as the perfect fifth which is only one fret away to make A and E.

A "perfect fifth interval" has that shape I just demonstrated. Technically it spans a total of 7 half steps. So you can play a fifth a variety of ways on the guitar. Anywhere you can play an A in the bass and an E above it...you will have a fifth interval.

So, now you are familiar with the perfect fifth and the diminished fifth intervals.

ok so is this relevant to what I was saying? Im not following. I also find if im listening to a song I can almost guess the key it is in without knowing and kind of improvise over it for a little bit? I struggle to find the notes in it but idk I think I might be playing in key without knowing wtf im playing. going to test this theory and actually get the names of the notes and see if it matches up with the notes in the song.
Last edited by gary78912 at Jul 16, 2014,
#17
Hate to break your heart, but there really are no shortcuts or exercises that will suddenly make you proficient at theory. It's something you have to learn yourself from the ground up. Telling you any shortcuts will only hinder your progress in the long run.

Do you know how to create a major scale? Do you know how to create major, minor, diminished, and augmented chords?

I've seen you mention "modes" in one your earlier posts. If you didn't say YES to my statement above, then you really have no business worrying about modes yet. In order to progress smoothly in theory, you really need a SOLID foundation. For whatever reason, legions of people (especially on this website) overlook this fact and try to take shortcuts. It doesn't work that way.
#18
Quote by b00m
Hate to break your heart, but there really are no shortcuts or exercises that will suddenly make you proficient at theory. It's something you have to learn yourself from the ground up. Telling you any shortcuts will only hinder your progress in the long run.

Do you know how to create a major scale? Do you know how to create major, minor, diminished, and augmented chords?

I've seen you mention "modes" in one your earlier posts. If you didn't say YES to my statement above, then you really have no business worrying about modes yet. In order to progress smoothly in theory, you really need a SOLID foundation. For whatever reason, legions of people (especially on this website) overlook this fact and try to take shortcuts. It doesn't work that way.

I wouldn't say I am looking for a shortcut. I am just looking for methods other people have used to remember the notes. I am use to tab and it is really ****ing me up lol. I mean.... modes do not seem too complicated. how can I not get into modes now if I want to be able to play in key? each of the 7 notes of a key has a mode attached no?
#19
1. Learn the musical alphabet as it appears in notation, because it will make you understand how the notes relate to each other in space and time.

2. Write out the musical alphabet on manuscript using sharps when ascending, and flats when descending.

You can pick up your guitar now.

3. Understand how to tune your guitar by using unison and octave methods. 5th and 7th fret regions respectively. That is something any good teacher will get you to do within the first, if not the first couple of lessons. It gets you accustomed to your instrument.

4. Memorise the low E string, but only the natural notes. So frets 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12.

5. Memorise the A string, but only the natural notes. So frets 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12.

6. Fill in the gaps.
#20
Quote by mdc
1. Learn the musical alphabet as it appears in notation, because it will make you understand how the notes relate to each other in space and time.

2. Write out the musical alphabet on manuscript using sharps when ascending, and flats when descending.

You can pick up your guitar now.

3. Understand how to tune your guitar by using unison and octave methods. 5th and 7th fret regions respectively. That is something any good teacher will get you to do within the first, if not the first couple of lessons. It gets you accustomed to your instrument.

4. Memorise the low E string, but only the natural notes. So frets 1, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12.

5. Memorise the A string, but only the natural notes. So frets 2, 3, 5, 7, 8, 10, 12.

6. Fill in the gaps.

I never learned how to do that I think my teacher wasn't that good lol. I can fill In the blanks do you think I should just write down the individual strings myself or is there something online? wow I am such a lazy piece of shit lol. I think I just need motivation haha.
#21
Lol, ok. I guess you're a player who plays by ear but not understand the theory behind it, and that's fine.

I also learnt by ear, but picked up theory books cuz I was interested in the theory. And that's the key word, "interested".

What I mean by that is that you shouldn't force yourself to learn the theory if the genuine interest isn't there.

Having said that, the first response in this thread is perfect for you.

The reason I mentioned writing the notes out on manuscript is because by doing that, it helps you to "connect" with music. The physical application of writing out notes does something to the brain in that it helps you to connect. I know it sounds a bit zen.
Last edited by mdc at Jul 17, 2014,
#22
Quote by mdc
Lol, ok. I guess you're a player who plays by ear but not understand the theory behind it, and that's fine.

I also learnt by ear, but picked up theory books cuz I was interested in the theory. And that's the key word, "interested".

What I mean by that is that you shouldn't force yourself to learn the theory if the genuine interest isn't there.

Having said that, the first response in this thread is perfect for you.

The reason I mentioned writing the notes out on manuscript is because by doing that, it helps you to "connect" with music. The physical application of writing out notes does something to the brain in that it helps you to connect. I know it sounds a bit zen.

I mean theory is cool and all I ****ing love just making up my own stuff though I didn't realize until recently when I ****ed with my own stuff and actually sat there and tried to create my own music did I love it. I can sit there for hours but idk wat the **** I am doing If that makes sense? if I knew the notes and how they were all connected and what I was playing and what chords would work I would be content. im not going to go crazy with the theory just enough to help me create more stuff on the spot easier. hope this makes sense.
#23
Wow, you sure like using **** a lot. Internet is a big place in that it's very easy to come across bad misleading articles if you don't know the difference between someone who knows their theory and some shit bag who's trying to make a fast buck.

But that website link at the top is a good one.
Last edited by mdc at Jul 17, 2014,
#24
Quote by gary78912
what does notate rhythmically mean. lol I hope that is not a dumb question. like uhh bpm?

I think it means rhythmic notation. Try this: http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chord_chart.
Gear:

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"Music is the strongest form of magic." - Marilyn Manson
Last edited by SexyBeast810 at Jul 17, 2014,
#25
Quote by gary78912
each of the 7 notes of a key has a mode attached no?


That is correct. That is because when you start on a different note of say, the major scale, the INTERVALS change to a different combination of half and whole steps. That is extremely important to understand. Intervals, Intervals, Intervals...understand them very , very well. I cannot stress it enough.
Last edited by Unreal T at Jul 17, 2014,
#26
yea.. sorry I swear a lot lol. ok so like say a song is in the key of C, if I remember all the notes across the fret board and idk have some sort of chord progression like C, Am, F etc, I can play any of those notes? so c d e f g a b. theres like no rule like staying in a mode or something? just as long as it sounds good and fits to what you are playin?
#27
Quote by gary78912
yea.. sorry I swear a lot lol. ok so like say a song is in the key of C, if I remember all the notes across the fret board and idk have some sort of chord progression like C, Am, F etc, I can play any of those notes? so c d e f g a b. theres like no rule like staying in a mode or something? just as long as it sounds good and fits to what you are playin?



That's right. All the notes in that scale, are in the notes of those chords as well, so they play well together, just use your ear to decide what notes sound like they resolve the best when you end a line. If its not the note you are on, its the very next one.

Best,

Sean