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#1
Our band is writing an original and we are trying to find a rhythm guitar section to go with the lead guitar when it is not playing a melody or a solo. Any ideas on how to construct that. Much appreciated.
Darius
#3
Quote by Deadds
You're asking us how to write music, right?


Lol as funny as this is I will try and be slightly helpful. Ok so you want a rhythm part to go with your melody.

POWER CHORDS!
Start on the root note (same note as the melody starts on) Then play around with different 4 chord progressions over the melody. This takes some experimentation but as long as you start on the root it should all work out, find the 4 chords that sound good with your melody and use an interesting strumming pattern. Add in some palm mutes to the kick of the drumkit and make it groovy. Done

A $20 song writing free is now payable to me Thank you.
Last edited by Victorgeiger at Jul 17, 2014,
#4
Quote by Deadds
You're asking us how to write music, right?


No lol I was just asking how you would form a rhythm part if the lead is not playing a melody. Would they both be playing the same chords or is there more to it?
Darius
#5
if u got 2 guitars and the lead isnt playign a solo or a melody, then either create a counterpoint /complimenting melody to the main melody on it or just mute it in general, you could also just make it 1-strum each chord at certain points. but usually too much of the same isnt good, the rhythm guitar is there for the rhythm and chords, so thats its main objective. the lead is the lead, so make it play a few note riffs or lines while its not doing anything, or just not have it play anything, make it act like a choir, you know what im saying ?
#7
The rhythm guitarist should have a good knowledge of voicings, double stops and Hendrixian embellishments to add sonic interest to rhythm guitar. Also experiment with rhythms.
#9
I don't get why people want to write original music before they actually know how to play.
#10
Quote by GuitarMunky
I don't get why people want to write original music before they actually know how to play.


Bill: Ted, while I agree that, in time, our band will be most triumphant, the truth is, Wyld Stallyns will never be a super-band until we get Eddie Van Halen on guitar.
Ted: Yes, Bill, but.... I do not believe we will get Eddie Van Halen before we have a triumphant video.
Bill: Ted, it's pointless to have a triumphant video before we have decent instruments.
Ted: Well, how can we have decent instruments if we don't really even know how to play?
Bill: That is why we need Eddie Van Halen!
Ted: And that is why we need a triumphant video!


No, it's not the least bit constructive but it just seemed like the right place for that quote.
#11
Quote by CarsonStevens
No, it's not the least bit constructive but it just seemed like the right place for that quote.


LOL nice
#12
Quote by GuitarMunky
I don't get why people want to write original music before they actually know how to play.

#13
You need to really listen to recordings of bands with two guitars. Note what they're doing - is one of them playing octave-style leads while the other plays power chords? Are they playing different voicings of the same chord? Are they splitting up the notes in the chord? (This is one we do a lot of in my band, where the other guy plays power chords, and I'll play the root or the fifth as well as the third of the chord). Is one of them playing a riff while the other plays chords? There's an infinite number of ways of playing complimentary guitar parts, but you need to really listen and experiment to find them.
#14
Quote by GuitarMunky
I don't get why people want to write original music before they actually know how to play.


Big ditto
#15
Quote by flaaash
Big ditto

because people want to express, not piss about learning shit

because they're human
#16
There are so many things you could do. Look at bands like Metallica or AC/DC. Most of the time both guitar parts are exactly the same.

Don't play different stuff for the sake of playing different stuff. Playing the same riff is OK. The whole band can play in unisono and sometimes that sounds awesome.

But yeah, the other guitar could play clean arpeggios. Or it could play different chord voicings (for example one guitarist plays low power chords and the other guitarist adds some higher notes to the chords).

Write your parts. It doesn't sound good if both guitarists play too freely. It takes space out of the music. Play rhythms that fit each other (the safest option is to play exactly the same rhythms).
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#17
Quote by willT08
because people want to express, not piss about learning shit

because they're human


Most humans are capable of realizing that creating art based on advice, rather than what's in their own mind, is not a legitimate way of expressing oneself.

to the TS..


The ability write (rhythm or lead) guitar parts is something you develop through experience.
If you play often enough, you get to a point where you start having your own ideas as well as the ability to execute them….. that's a good time to start writing music.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 18, 2014,
#18
Quote by GuitarMunky
Most humans are capable of realizing that creating art based on advice, rather than what's in their own mind, is not a legitimate way of expressing oneself.

i don't think that means anything

what the hell advice are you on about?

also what makes a means of expressing yourself legitimate?
#19
Quote by willT08
i don't think that means anything

what the hell advice are you on about?

also what makes a means of expressing yourself legitimate?


the fact that it comes from your own mind.


and don't swear at me
#20
Quote by GuitarMunky
Most humans are capable of realizing that creating art based on advice, rather than what's in their own mind, is not a legitimate way of expressing oneself.

to the TS..


The ability write (rhythm or lead) guitar parts is something you develop through experience.
If you play often enough, you get to a point where you start having your own ideas as well as the ability to execute them….. that's a good time to start writing music.

I don't know. I think you can write music whenever you want. If you feel inspired, you can write music. TS didn't say he can't come up with songs. He said he doesn't know what to do with the second guitar part. And IMO people can give him advice. You can learn from other people too. At least they can give you suggestions. TS can (and will) still figure it out himself - he will try different things and go with the one that works best.

Also, writing music isn't about writing rhythm/lead guitar parts. It's about writing music. You can be a good songwriter without being able to play an instrument that well.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#21
Quote by MaggaraMarine
I don't know. I think you can write music whenever you want. If you feel inspired, you can write music. TS didn't say he can't come up with songs. He said he doesn't know what to do with the second guitar part. And IMO people can give him advice. You can learn from other people too. At least they can give you suggestions. TS can (and will) still figure it out himself - he will try different things and go with the one that works best.

Also, writing music isn't about writing rhythm/lead guitar parts. It's about writing music. You can be a good songwriter without being able to play an instrument that well.


Well you can do whatever you want, but it is what it is. if someone else gives you an idea for your guitar part, then it's not your idea.

My point is that if you have enough experience 1st, you'll never have to ask someone else to come up with your parts. I would suggest that most people will find writing their own parts to be more satisfying.
#22
There's nothing wrong with taking advice from others about the songwriting process when you're learning, but OP should be going straight to the source (actual music using two guitar parts) and using or evolving the concepts used in it. Simply asking for second-hand information, as was done here, gets you nowhere.
#23
Quote by GuitarMunky
Well you can do whatever you want, but it is what it is. if someone else gives you an idea for your guitar part, then it's not your idea.

My point is that if you have enough experience 1st, you'll never have to ask someone else to come up with your parts. I would suggest that most people will find writing their own parts to be more satisfying.

But you can still take advice from people. It's the same as learning to play the guitar. Nobody learns it for you. You learn to play it. I don't think TS asked us to write him his guitar parts. I think he asked advice on how to write second guitar parts. That's the same as teaching technique to somebody. It's just advice on how to practice technique correctly and efficiently. Songwriting has its own "techniques".

But yeah, I agree that TS should just try it himself. But still, our advice may give him more ideas. Different kind of ways to approach it. For example if TS only listens to bands like Metallica that always just double the rhythm parts, he will never even think of any other ways of writing guitar parts.

If you read TS's posts, he said that he doesn't want us to write him the parts. He was just asking how people usually do it.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
#24
^ +1
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Et tu, br00tz?
#25
Quote by MaggaraMarine
But you can still take advice from people. It's the same as learning to play the guitar. Nobody learns it for you. You learn to play it.


If you're taking advice on what to do in your own song, then your not truly writing your own music. The ideas aren't from your own mind. Your essentially following instructions.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

I don't think TS asked us to write him his guitar parts.



Quote by DaroDude
Our band is writing an original and we are trying to find a rhythm guitar section to go with the lead guitar when it is not playing a melody or a solo. Any ideas on how to construct that. Much appreciated.


^ to me this says "We've never covered any songs, or at least not songs with 2 guitars"….. again this shows a lack of experience. it also says " We're writing a song, we can't finish it, please help. "


Quote by MaggaraMarine

I think he asked advice on how to write second guitar parts.


I didn't read it that way, but if I did, I'd tell him to learn some songs with "second guitar parts". (IE get more experience). * and suggest that his band should cover songs with 2 guitars.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

But yeah, I agree that TS should just try it himself. But still, our advice may give him more ideas. Different kind of ways to approach it. For example if TS only listens to bands like Metallica that always just double the rhythm parts, he will never even think of any other ways of writing guitar parts.


It might, but I suggest that experience would be more helpful.


Quote by MaggaraMarine

If you read TS's posts, he said that he doesn't want us to write him the parts. He was just asking how people usually do it.


Again that would be easily learned through experience.


I guess my view is that if you're trying to write music via step by step instructions, you're probably not ready to write music. That's not to say you can't, but I personally think your better off waiting until you're ready.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 18, 2014,
#26
Quote by GuitarMunky
If you're taking advice on what to do in your own song, then your not truly writing your own music. The ideas aren't from your own mind. Your essentially following instructions.

Without getting into the whole Death of the Author thing, learning music is a wonderful communal experience. Emphasis should be on the artistic product. The method of composition isn't that relevant.

TS,you can consider the guitars texturally. Turn the tone all the way down on one guitar and use the neck pickup. Experiment with delay, EQ, phasers and other effects, VOLUME is another important one. You might like to play low power chords on your phasery reverby neck-pickup guitar, and high pitched triads on your trebly, echoey guitar.

Alternatively, look at the drum kit. You've got high notes, low notes and middle notes that interlock and make a cool rhythm when they're all playing together. Try emulating the drummer's rhythm.

With regards to volume, it can be very effective for the louder guitar to be silent for a certain section. Give it lots of low mids and it'll give your choruses a big satisfying crunch!

It was fun reading everyone else's thoughts on arranging guitar parts!
#28
Quote by MaggaraMarine

If you read TS's posts, he said that he doesn't want us to write him the parts. He was just asking how people usually do it.


Thank you so much for understanding what I'm trying to ask.


Thanks for those with the advice, fyi we have written acoustic duos that consist of one guitar playing open chords while the other plays barre chords or solos over but now with both being electrics. I've seen songs such as Famous Last Words and Tears Don't Fall (the chorus) where the guitars are both playing different chords throughout. As it is we have a lead, bass, drums and lyrics done and have the lead and rhythm playing the same things until the solo section and bridge so we were hoping to get the rhythm playing different chords to highlight the lead part as the songs above, but we are unsure to how to do that.
Darius
#29
Quote by GuitarMunky


^ to me this says "We've never covered any songs, or at least not songs with 2 guitars"….. again this shows a lack of experience. it also says " We're writing a song, we can't finish it, please help. "


We have done cover of 2 guitar songs such as the ones I said^^ but the thing is I don't know they made it work the way it did.
Darius
#30
Quote by GuitarMunky

I guess my view is that if you're trying to write music via step by step instructions, you're probably not ready to write music. That's not to say you can't, but I personally think your better off waiting until you're ready.

ok
#31
lol munkey /facepalm.
TS, you're always ready to write music, if you got specific question on how to get this and that sound, just simply find a song or band that creates this sound and figure out by ear what they're doing. After that go back to making your own stuff and use this new found knowledge to guide you.
#32
I don't think there's such a thing as "not ready to write music", but then again I kind of agree with GuitarMunky. The TS is asking questions SO basic he clearly has no idea about writing music. He should just play covers and see what the guitarists are doing.
#33
Quote by DaroDude
We have done cover of 2 guitar songs such as the ones I said^^ but the thing is I don't know they made it work the way it did.


just play something that sounds good to you. If it sounds good, it works.

Draw from your own experience.

Quote by Elintasokas
I don't think there's such a thing as "not ready to write music",




I dunno, a person that just picks up a guitar and can't even play a melody or a chord on it, is probably not ready to write music…. or at least a guitar part. I mean you could use guitar pro and conceive a part I suppose, but I suggest that a person with actual hands on experience would be better equipped.


Quote by Elintasokas
The TS is asking questions SO basic he clearly has no idea about writing music. He should just play covers and see what the guitarists are doing.


That's definitely my point. If you squeeze your sponge, and only a drip comes out, you need soak up a bit more.

Quote by Ignore
lol munkey /facepalm.
TS, you're always ready to write music, if you got specific question on how to get this and that sound, just simply find a song or band that creates this sound and figure out by ear what they're doing. After that go back to making your own stuff and use this new found knowledge to guide you.



Now to me, doing that at the time of creating a song is simply stealing. You're basically saying "I have no idea what to do, but what this other person did is really cool, so I'm going to figure it out and use it as my own.

What I suggest is to go through a period of developing your style through experience. People often refer to this as "cutting your teeth".
With enough experience, you'll get to a point where you can creatively draw from the well you've filled (or sponge that's now soaked).
You can pick and choose from the sounds you've become familiar with using the techniques you've developed in your "teeth cutting" phase. You're not directly stealing anyone else's idea, but instead are just utilizing the full pallet that you've developed from your experience.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 19, 2014,
#34
People need to stop assuming what I know in music because I know we are ready to write our own stuff, we've already written acoustic duos and now we want to start writing rock. We have a rhythm part for the song now but I was asking for suggestions on what we could do for it so it can add to music.
#35
Quote by DaroDude
People need to stop assuming what I know in music because I know we are ready to write our own stuff, we've already written acoustic duos and now we want to start writing rock. We have a rhythm part for the song now but I was asking for suggestions on what we could do for it so it can add to music.


Polytonal polyrhythms
#36
Quote by GuitarMunky

Now to me, doing that at the time of creating a song is simply stealing.

when i can't be bothered to think of chords i just sample like 50ms of a tune at a time and loop it

would you say i am a crook?
#38
Quote by MapOfYourHead
People have been stealing musical ideas for 100's of years. It's how you learn to write songs.

no it is stealing, munky proved it

but it's only stealing if you learn it and then use it straight away

if you store it in a sponge it is not stealing. this is true and good. great work munky
#39
Quote by willT08
when i can't be bothered to think of chords i just sample like 50ms of a tune at a time and loop it

would you say i am a crook?


Yes, I would.


Quote by willT08
no it is stealing, munky proved it

but it's only stealing if you learn it and then use it straight away

if you store it in a sponge it is not stealing. this is true and good. great work munky


It's only stealing when you deliberately steal it.

Using words that you've picked up through the experience of speaking the language is different than taking someone else's idea and using it as your own.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 19, 2014,
#40
Quote by GuitarMunky
Yes, I would.

i am sad that all the music i've made is illegitimate

this is a big deal because music is all about how it's made
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