Page 1 of 2
#1
I have come to realization that speed is genetics and talent, sure, you can improve speed over the years, but you will come to a limit, no matter how much you try, some people will never be able to play as fast as Vai, Satriani, Malmstem, and other shredders, want proof of this?

just look at youtube, out of the thousands of people, only a few can play as fast as vai, to make covers of his tunes, with perfect notes, timing, speed, accuracy.

The rest, simply just suck, they don't have enough technique, speed, despite most of them are busting their asses, practicing for years, still cannot hack it.

How come this guy cesar huesca, matt rach, gustavo guerra, can play Vai and satriani covers for years now, yet people who have been playing for the same amount of years, and even longer than him, cannot even come close to their levels. This kid mattrach, he had only been playing for a few years, when he became big on youtube, was playing vai tunes, like it was nothing, yet he was like 16 years old, are you kidding me?

is all talent, it separates the average joe from the people like vai, guerra, huesca, satriani, and all these youtube kids who can play at that level, which are a dozen

majority of us are not meant to shred, it will never happen no matter how much you practice, I know, because i have tried to reach this level for 12 years, I still cannot play at a speed fast enough to play vai, satriani, and all those shred tunes. I can play some of their licks here and there, but the fastest one, is impossible, I practice them 100, 500 times, with metronome, slow, fast, my speed barely improves. It seems so far away, then I see these ****ing kids on youtube, play them with ease, seems so unreal, how can they do it

This explains why everyone wants to shred, because very few are actually capable of doing, therefore, if you achieve it, you will impress everyone else, you separate yourself from the masses, since very few can do it. In fact, impressing others by playing fast tunes, is the main reason why you want to shred in the first place, because you know the value and status that comes from being able to do that. It is the fact that very few can do it, that is so sought out and why you want to achieve it so bad.

If everyone could easily achieve it with just years of practice, then it would become obsolete, the norm, boring, and it wouldn't be a goal, it wouldn't impress anybody, it would be like playing a power chords, or some scale a normal speed

it would be like learning to play bar chords, anyone can do it, and it impress no one

The fact that thousands have shredding as a goal, yet despite practicing for years, still cannot reach the level of huesca, matt rach, satriani, vai, tells me something, that is not just practice. I'm not talking about playing fast only, but the whole technique as a whole, these people are out of this world. It makes the average joe question themselves, like they are superior, how can they play like that, is unreal, especially if they are just kids like you from youtube.

Everyone is made different, the brain, hands, fingers, muscles, tendons, intelligence, coordination, some simply got lucky to have been born with a physiology that allows them to play fast and better, easily, they progress faster, their hands and brains are optimal for shredding and guitar playing in general. What it would take an average dude to achieve in 10 years, they do it in 2 years.

Sure, you can always practice your ass off, and over the years increase speed, but since you have no talent, it will take you such a long time, decades to even come close to those guy's level, and even then, you won't even sound as good and proficient as them.

That's all you can do, keep practicing, and hoping, dreaming that someday, you will able to play VAI tunes with accuracy and speed, for the majority, it will never happen, for others, it will take so freaking long that you will just give up in the process, is very hard to stay motivated when you see almost no progress in months, people assume that you are not practicing enough, or practicing incorrectly

It is frustrating to watch those kids be able to play those tunes, that you want to play so bad, yet despite your greatest efforts you cannot even come close, so you keep trying, but sooner or later, you will just give up, is impossible to keep something up, if progress is very slow
#2
And your conclusion is wrong.

Some people do have a natural affinity for the instrument it's true, same as some people find they have an affinity for cooking, or languages, or playing football. However the simple fact is that most people aren't committed enough or simply don't have the time to put in the phenomenal amount of work required to get to the top of the tree. And it's not just about time, it's making effective use of that time and being brutally self-critical.
Actually called Mark!

Quote by TNfootballfan62
People with a duck for their avatar always give good advice.

...it's a seagull

Quote by Dave_Mc
i wanna see a clip of a recto buying some groceries.


stuffmycatswatchontv.tumblr.com
#3
. I think most of us get satisfaction from learn songs we like to play - I can shred but am I great at it probably not . I really don't care for playing extremely fast solos most of the song's I play don't require it , Personally I think your over reacting I am not that impressed with the super fast shred sounds of scales or notes, you seem to put it above and beyond everything else - Like playing slower is Less skilled .

I have just finished learning a solo from " sweet home Alabama " and that is a hard solo to play right and with great technique and tempo . one thing I will a agree with you is some people are naturally skilled at playing guitar and the younger you learn to play the better you will become, If I was making a suggestion to you I would say play slow tempo song's and build up that way your making progress
Last edited by dazzzer30 at Jul 19, 2014,
#4
Quote by lalopunk
I have come to realization that speed is genetics and talent, sure, you can improve speed over the years, but you will come to a limit, no matter how much you try, some people will never be able to play as fast as Vai, Satriani, Malmstem, and other shredders, want proof of this?


I'd love to see it. You're not providing it but I'd love to see it.

Quote by lalopunk
just look at youtube, out of the thousands of people, only a few can play as fast as vai, to make covers of his tunes, with perfect notes, timing, speed, accuracy.

The rest, simply just suck, they don't have enough technique, speed, despite most of them are busting their asses, practicing for years, still cannot hack it.


So what do you know about how they practice? It's true to say that practising the right way is a very specific skill and takes a lot of time and dedication but that's more what it is than "talent"; practising the right way. Most people don't know how to do it and a lot of guitar tuition is spent working through exercises and scales rather than looking at how to do these things correctly.

Quote by lalopunk
How come this guy cesar huesca, matt rach, gustavo guerra, can play Vai and satriani covers for years now, yet people who have been playing for the same amount of years, and even longer than him, cannot even come close to their levels. This kid mattrach, he had only been playing for a few years, when he became big on youtube, was playing vai tunes, like it was nothing, yet he was like 16 years old, are you kidding me?


Matt Rach has been playing since he was 6. You're making assumptions about practice and starting age based on more or less nothing. Also his cover of For The Love Of God is a mess once the fast stuff starts up anyway, he's not really doing those fast repeating patterns very well at all.

Quote by lalopunk
is all talent, it separates the average joe from the people like vai, guerra, huesca, satriani, and all these youtube kids who can play at that level, which are a dozen


Actually if you look for covers of the famous tunes by guys like Vai, Satch and any of the big name shredders... there are tonnes and lots of them are really very good.

Quote by lalopunk
majority of us are not meant to shred, it will never happen no matter how much you practice, I know, because i have tried to reach this level for 12 years, I still cannot play at a speed fast enough to play vai, satriani, and all those shred tunes. I can play some of their licks here and there, but the fastest one, is impossible, I practice them 100, 500 times, with metronome, slow, fast, my speed barely improves. It seems so far away, then I see these ****ing kids on youtube, play them with ease, seems so unreal, how can they do it


They practice more and better than you. Simple really. If you practice the right way and get your technique right rather than just bashing away with the metronome then you can definitely achieve the kind of speed and accuracy that those guys have. Repetition alone won't do it.

It looks easy for them because they've practised in such a way that it is easy. If every time you go to practice you're straining and grunting away because 'it's hard' then no amount of practice is going to make it work for you.

Quote by lalopunk
This explains why everyone wants to shred, because very few are actually capable of doing, therefore, if you achieve it, you will impress everyone else, you separate yourself from the masses, since very few can do it. In fact, impressing others by playing fast tunes, is the main reason why you want to shred in the first place, because you know the value and status that comes from being able to do that. It is the fact that very few can do it, that is so sought out and why you want to achieve it so bad.

If everyone could easily achieve it with just years of practice, then it would become obsolete, the norm, boring, and it wouldn't be a goal, it wouldn't impress anybody, it would be like playing a power chords, or some scale a normal speed

it would be like learning to play bar chords, anyone can do it, and it impress no one


It's a rare skill because it's hard not because it's something you're magically born with. Anyone who can really shred it out will tell you of the obscene amount of hours they had to put in to get there and the kind of obsessive attention to detail they had to acquire in order to find the tiny flaws in their playing that stopped them getting there.

Really though, most people aren't impressed by fast playing anyway. Shred is very much a niche pursuit; when you compare the number of shredders, notable and otherwise, to 'normal' guitarists we really are a tiny number. Most people just want to hear a song with simple words about things they can relate to rather than the kind of abstract things that songs like For The Love Of God represent.

Quote by lalopunk
The fact that thousands have shredding as a goal, yet despite practicing for years, still cannot reach the level of huesca, matt rach, satriani, vai, tells me something, that is not just practice. I'm not talking about playing fast only, but the whole technique as a whole, these people are out of this world. It makes the average joe question themselves, like they are superior, how can they play like that, is unreal, especially if they are just kids like you from youtube.


Pure supposition. You don't actually know this, you're just guessing, especially given that you actually know nothing about these people's practice habits.

Quote by lalopunk
Everyone is made different, the brain, hands, fingers, muscles, tendons, intelligence, coordination, some simply got lucky to have been born with a physiology that allows them to play fast and better, easily, they progress faster, their hands and brains are optimal for shredding and guitar playing in general. What it would take an average dude to achieve in 10 years, they do it in 2 years.


Physically speaking, variation is actually extremely limited (outside of real corner cases), not that it makes much in the way of difference anyway.

Again, you're just mentioning "years" though, that's not a measurement at all. When you say years do you mean years practicing 20 minutes twice a week? 4 hours every day? 8 hours every day? What do these people practice? How are they doing it? Are they just hitting the metronome and running it over and over again or are they methodically figuring out what's holding them back and fixing these issues?

Quote by lalopunk
people assume that you are not practicing enough, or practicing incorrectly


Because that's the case.

Quote by lalopunk
It is frustrating to watch those kids be able to play those tunes, that you want to play so bad, yet despite your greatest efforts you cannot even come close, so you keep trying, but sooner or later, you will just give up, is impossible to keep something up, if progress is very slow


The only way you ever fail is if you give up.

Now stop bitching about 'talent'. It may or may not exist... but it's irrelevant. The amount of learning and practice and hard work you have to put in to get to that level completely overrides that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mqgTdVuGrAQ

If he can do it... what's your excuse?
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jul 19, 2014,
#5
If that's how you feel, then give up OP. You're not cut out for the guitar world. Send me your guitar along with all of your equipment, and I'll send you a box of tissues to offer my condolences.
#6
Its all in your mind!

A guitar is limitless and you can take in any direction you choose.

However if do not understand YOU and how your mind is getting the results then you will have trouble in some areas why you can't play this or that or the other.

Take Yngwie as an example. From an early age he was obsessed and only focused on WOW himself with his playing skills. That's all he cared for and dedicated himself to.

Think it, feel it and do it! Do not worry, kill fear and any negative thoughts, only focus on the goal that you will belive you will reach in a certain time.

For more on how YOU work and results check you were born rich by Bob Proctor on youtube.
#7
I read the first 3 lines of this and had to stop. There's only so much stupid i can handle for one day. You're not a smart guy TS.
#8
Everybody has the potential to be the best.

Natural talent and pure hard work both exist but even those that get by with hard work and dedication can surpass anybody with a natural talent.

The only reals thing holding people back are lack of motivation, practice sessions that don't push them far enough, bad teaching, or the worst possible way of holding back your playing...acceptance that you will only ever be 'so good'.
When I was eleven I broke the patio window and my mother sued me... She's always been a very aggressive litigator.
#10
See, here's the thing.
How do you prove that something is possible? You do it.
How do you prove that something is impossible? No clue. Just because you can't do it doesn't mean it's impossible, it might be you haven't tried everything yet. Just because there's a small number of them doesn't mean it's talent.

The only thing that matters is do you want to be good? If you want to play fast, do it. If not, then don't. You say you don't have talent? How do you know if you don't try. Who cares if people that can play fast have talent or not.

Until you tell me you've hit your limit, your argument is false. If you do, post here and I can guarantee you that someone here can and will come up with something that helps you play faster. There is one thing common with every successful person, it's not talent but it's persistence.
#11
Years ago, I jammed with this kid who was ten years younger than me, and this dude was light years ahead of me in terms of speed, technique, and everything else really. To this day, that guy is the most unreal player I've ever jammed with. I asked him how long he'd been playing guitar, and he said, "Oh, a couple of years."

Is talent a factor in that? Of course it is. But then I found that he was practicing for fifteen hours a day! And it's the same with Vai or Malmsteen, they all practice a ridiculous number of hours. I'm not saying talent doesn't equal anything, but I personally think it's overrated. Even if you have the talent, you still have to put in the time.

Personally, I would disagree with the idea that everyone wants to play fast. The players you mentioned appeal to certain musicians, and for good reason, but they don't necessarily appeal to everyone. I would also have to disagree with the idea that there aren't that many players that can play like that. I see them all the time. It's almost a normal thing in this day and age.

It's not always just about practicing. A lot of times, it's how you practice. You may just be doing something inefficiently and not realize it. I think Vai's practice regimen is out there somewhere, you might try looking that up. Or maybe find someone who can play like that and see if they'll teach you. I know it's a long road with a lot of speed bumps, but don't give up. You keep trying and working at it, I'm sure you'll get to where you wanna go.
#12
You do understand that Vai practices ~10 hours a day, and has been doing so from an early age, right? So does Malmsteen, and all the other famous shredders.
#13
Quote by wheelz1045
If that's how you feel, then give up OP. You're not cut out for the guitar world. Send me your guitar along with all of your equipment, and I'll send you a box of tissues to offer my condolences.

Quote by vayne92
I read the first 3 lines of this and had to stop. There's only so much stupid i can handle for one day. You're not a smart guy TS.

Quote by EddieHet
lol qq more


All right, no need to be dickish about it guys.

If you've practised what you think is a lot and see a few people playing really well on what you think isn't much practice time it's all too easy to become disheartened.

I'll admit I wasn't being subtle... but there's only so many ways you can say "you're wrong". I wasn't being a jerk about it though.

Quote by Jes Johnson
I think Vai's practice regimen is out there somewhere, you might try looking that up.


Steve Vai's 10 hour workout is all over the place... but it's very much a mixed bag, you have to be doing it right to even make it last 10 hours, let alone get as much out of it as he did.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#14
Just a thought too, since this seems to be mostly about speed and shredding quickly:

I've often found that people who focus too much on speed just end up frustrating themselves and spending too much time glowering at the metronome. Try and take your mind off speed. Focus on your technique, your accuracy, develop your musical knowledge and your ear. If you spend time practicing right (echoing everyone else in this thread) you'll see more improvement. The ability to play something quickly doesn't solely come from sitting in front of the metronome, playing to your limit and repeating. Speed is a by product of accuracy, good technique, efficiency of motion, and knowledge about what you're playing. Dedication, hard work, and a smart use of practice time will get you wherever it is you want to get. Also spend less time comparing yourself to other musicians in such a negative fashion, it's not a competition or a race. Talent or not, they got there by practicing same as everyone else.

TL;DR: Don't "chase" speed, spend time trying to be a better musician, not just a faster one. And think less about where you stack up on an imaginary "talent ladder" and spend that time and energy thinking about and improving your own musicianship.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#15
I completely agree with Zaphod. Also, you might want to reconsider your defenition of the word "proof", since most of your "proof" in the OP is assumptions that bear no scientific fact nor sources of what you´re arguing being true.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#16
@ OP - You should be asking for advice on how to get better instead of making blank statements. The bottom line, is that some of Vai's material is simply out of your league. You're not good enough yet.

You mentioned that you've been playing for 12 years as if that's some great accomplishment. Have you been playing daily during those 12 years? Or even weekly? Have you taken any long breaks for playing? You give us absolutely nothing in terms of your own playing ability/practice routine for us to help you with. For all we know, you've been only playing seriously for about 3 of those 12 years.
#18
I know that the general feel on this board is that it's all about "practice practice practice".....
That dedication and perseverance will be sufficient to allow the individual to achieve the same heights as anyone else.

I don't think so. Look at any other field of physical endeavor. Take the Olympics, for instance. In any race you care to name, there will be a couple (or even just one) individual that is obviously head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and the rest are "also rans".
And these are the creme' de la creme'.... the very top performers in the world.

Compared to the average fellow... they are so much better as to hardly mention...

People are not uniform. They differ wildly in terms of abilities, physiology, and so forth. The most dedicated, driven person in the world, willing to spend hours a day and years in training... Will never become a top-level sprinter if he is 5' 2" in height and has a musculature with a high percentage of slow-twitch muscle fiber.
He might become a good marathoner... But never a sprinter.

You might argue that playing a musical instrument is not about strength or speed... But there are definite physical performance factors, both physiological and in terms of mental performance, that are just as potent.
Remember that when you're looking at those "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" stories about folks working hard and achieving goals.... You are looking at a biased sample.
You're not seeing the many who tried hard for years and never got anywhere. That gave up in disgust. That realized they would not achieve their goals and went on to something else.
#20
as expected people will say that anyone with hard work and dedication can play like cesar huesca, and vai, satriani tunes with accuracy and same speed

yet, 99% of people on this forum cannot even come close

lol
#21
Quote by Bikewer
I know that the general feel on this board is that it's all about "practice practice practice".....
That dedication and perseverance will be sufficient to allow the individual to achieve the same heights as anyone else.

I don't think so. Look at any other field of physical endeavor. Take the Olympics, for instance. In any race you care to name, there will be a couple (or even just one) individual that is obviously head and shoulders above the rest of the field, and the rest are "also rans".
And these are the creme' de la creme'.... the very top performers in the world.

Compared to the average fellow... they are so much better as to hardly mention...

People are not uniform. They differ wildly in terms of abilities, physiology, and so forth. The most dedicated, driven person in the world, willing to spend hours a day and years in training... Will never become a top-level sprinter if he is 5' 2" in height and has a musculature with a high percentage of slow-twitch muscle fiber.
He might become a good marathoner... But never a sprinter.

You might argue that playing a musical instrument is not about strength or speed... But there are definite physical performance factors, both physiological and in terms of mental performance, that are just as potent.
Remember that when you're looking at those "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" stories about folks working hard and achieving goals.... You are looking at a biased sample.
You're not seeing the many who tried hard for years and never got anywhere. That gave up in disgust. That realized they would not achieve their goals and went on to something else.



THIS

what else can you expect them to say?

When the average guitar player who still cannot play steve vai, malmsteen, satriani tunes, despite his efforts, all he has left is just practice, and hope for the best

that is all you could do, there is no guarantee that you will even come close to their level, and you will be able to play their tunes pefectly, all you can do is hope

they believe that anyone can achieve it with hard work and dedication, yet majority of guitar players on this site, dont even come close to playing steve vai, and all those shredders tunes, and if they do, is just half ass, with mistakes, lack of speed, not correct

how come only a few people on youtube can play these shredders covers with same accuracy and speed, and rest of thousands who are also fans, cannot? just practice?

i refuse to believe it

some of us have been practicing for many years, yet still cannot reach this level of speed and technique, majority of kids on this site have probably been playing for less, and have no idea

guess what, progress is not linear, more years and more hours of practice, doesnt mean shit, it doesnt mean you are guaranteed to become a virtuoso, you practice 10 hours a day for years, and still never reach that virtuoso level

some people simply progress faster than others

how come this kid mattrach on youtube, at 16 years could play vai and satriani like is n0thing, how do u explain that shit? practice lmao wake up

majority of us will never reach virtuoso level, or maybe we will but since we progress so slowly due to not having talent it will take u decades
#22
Quote by lalopunk
THIS

what else can you expect them to say?

When the average guitar player who still cannot play steve vai, malmsteen, satriani tunes, despite his efforts, all he has left is just practice, and hope for the best

that is all you could do, there is no guarantee that you will even come close to their level, and you will be able to play their tunes pefectly, all you can do is hope

they believe that anyone can achieve it with hard work and dedication, yet majority of guitar players on this site, dont even come close to playing steve vai, and all those shredders tunes, and if they do, is just half ass, with mistakes, lack of speed, not correct

how come only a few people on youtube can play these shredders covers with same accuracy and speed, and rest of thousands who are also fans, cannot? just practice?

i refuse to believe it

some of us have been practicing for many years, yet still cannot reach this level of speed and technique, majority of kids on this site have probably been playing for less, and have no idea

guess what, progress is not linear, more years and more hours of practice, doesnt mean shit, it doesnt mean you are guaranteed to become a virtuoso, you practice 10 hours a day for years, and still never reach that virtuoso level

some people simply progress faster than others

how come this kid mattrach on youtube, at 16 years could play vai and satriani like is n0thing, how do u explain that shit? practice lmao wake up

majority of us will never reach virtuoso level, or maybe we will but since we progress so slowly due to not having talent it will take u decades


Right... you're not actually reading the responses that disagree are you?

I'll say it again: Matt Rach started playing guitar at the age of 6. By the time he even started uploading to youtube he'd been playing for 10 years. That's 10 years of the kind of time a child has to practice.

Quote by lalopunk
some of us have been practicing for many years, yet still cannot reach this level of speed and technique, majority of kids on this site have probably been playing for less, and have no idea


Well I hate to say it but... of course people who come here can't. This forum is for helping people, great players don't need to be here to begin with.

Quote by lalopunk
majority of us will never reach virtuoso level, or maybe we will but since we progress so slowly due to not having talent it will take u decades


You say that like it's a weird thing or somehow bad. The greats spend years honing their craft, it's not like they spring out of the ground magically aged 16 and playing the world's hardest material.

Take Steve Vai for example, since that's something you seem intent on... Passion And Warfare was released in 1990. Steve was 30 at that point and had been playing for 17 years.


Whatever though, you already just flat out said you refuse to believe anything other than the point of view you already hold so this thread was entirely pointless; you're just looking for an echo chamber so you can feel better about not being where you want to be with your playing. I'm done humouring you now. Shoo.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jul 20, 2014,
#23
Still think I was being a dick for the sake of being a dick...? lol

The OP came in here announcing to the world that he'll never amount to anything no matter how hard he tries. Why should anyone offer pity to someone as pathetic as that? The guy claims he's been playing for over a decade, yet only last year he was posting about how he was struggling to play the solo for Sweet Child O' Mine, which is for the most part an intermediate solo. That means he either really does lack the talent to be a good guitarist, or he hasn't been playing seriously during those 12 years.

Obviously certain people have an affinity towards certain things that others don't. That just means that the people that don't have two choices.

A) Work your tail off.
OR
B) Give up.

The OP came in here and absolutely gave up. He didn't ask for help, for advice, or anything of the sort. He never told us what material he regularly plays. He never told told us what his practice regime is. The OP is like a spoiled child complaining about how unfair the world is and trying to justify his own shortcomings by saying it's impossible. I feel no pity for people like that.
#24
The reason why people are naturally talented at olympic sports is because the physical movements involved are all very natural movements that are used for our survival (running, swimming, being strong etc...).

The movements needed to play the guitar are unnatural and don't have any evolutionary advantage. So why would anyone be naturally more talented at these movements than another? Sure people can pick up guitar quicker but everyone learns things at different rates, and it doesn't prove that there is any genetic limit in your ability to play the guitar.

From my own experience enough good practice will make you as good as you want to be.
#25
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Right... you're not actually reading the responses that disagree are you?

I'll say it again: Matt Rach started playing guitar at the age of 6. By the time he even started uploading to youtube he'd been playing for 10 years. That's 10 years of the kind of time a child has to practice.


Well I hate to say it but... of course people who come here can't. This forum is for helping people, great players don't need to be here to begin with.


You say that like it's a weird thing or somehow bad. The greats spend years honing their craft, it's not like they spring out of the ground magically aged 16 and playing the world's hardest material.

Take Steve Vai for example, since that's something you seem intent on... Passion And Warfare was released in 1990. Steve was 30 at that point and had been playing for 17 years.


Whatever though, you already just flat out said you refuse to believe anything other than the point of view you already hold so this thread was entirely pointless; you're just looking for an echo chamber so you can feel better about not being where you want to be with your playing. I'm done humouring you now. Shoo.


+1
Gear:
Jackson Dinky (JB+59) > TC Polytune Noir > TS808 clone > DOD 250 > Modded RAT > CH-1 > GE-7 > TC Flashback > Plexi Clone
#26
Quote by Anon17
The reason why people are naturally talented at olympic sports is because the physical movements involved are all very natural movements that are used for our survival (running, swimming, being strong etc...).

The movements needed to play the guitar are unnatural and don't have any evolutionary advantage. So why would anyone be naturally more talented at these movements than another? Sure people can pick up guitar quicker but everyone learns things at different rates, and it doesn't prove that there is any genetic limit in your ability to play the guitar.


I'm not sure you can necessarily make that logical leap there. Manual dexterity probably does have an evolutionary advantage. It lets you use tools for a start.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
I'm not sure you can necessarily make that logical leap there. Manual dexterity probably does have an evolutionary advantage. It lets you use tools for a start.


Yeah, I really don't think that logic follows either Even if the bit about evolutionary advantage did I don't think that would necessarily have any impact on whether or not some people have a more natural aptitude for the instrument.


Just to clarify a bit: personally I reckon that "talent" at its most basic definition (natural aptitude for a skill) does exist with regards to guitar... but I don't think it matters. The amount of time and dedication that getting to the highest levels of guitar takes more or less completely overrides talent. There may also be a high enough level where that kind of talent takes over again but that'll be once you get to like... Guthrie Govan levels of skill, and he's been playing for literally as long as he can remember anyway so I'm not sure about that at all.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
I'm not sure you can necessarily make that logical leap there. Manual dexterity probably does have an evolutionary advantage. It lets you use tools for a start.


But not the very specific subset of moments you're using to play the guitar?
#29
Quote by Anon17
But not the very specific subset of moments you're using to play the guitar?


I don't think there's a specific gene for "running" either to be honest dude; I think it's more things like a preponderance of the right kind of muscle mass and the length of your legs, joint strength, that kind of thing.

Playing guitar is a vastly different thing though so it'll be dependent on muscle memory ability more than anything else which, as I say, I'm sure there is a kind of talent for but I am anything but convinced as to it mattering at all.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#30
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I don't think there's a specific gene for "running" either to be honest dude; I think it's more things like a preponderance of the right kind of muscle mass and the length of your legs, joint strength, that kind of thing.


This is what I was getting at, I didn't mean that there is any specific gene for a sport but like you've said people can have the right lengths and masses to have an advantage. Seen as the hard part about playing guitar isn't due to the size of your hands and fingers this is why people aren't going to be a lot better naturally at the guitar than others compared to sports.

Playing guitar is a vastly different thing though so it'll be dependent on muscle memory ability more than anything else which, as I say, I'm sure there is a kind of talent for but I am anything but convinced as to it mattering at all.


This is what I mean.
#31
The problem with this thread is that some people seem to be missing the point, that one should be playing guitar for personal enjoyment and to make music for the enjoyment of others. Not everyone will be the best or the fastest in the world. Who cares? Some people advance quicker. So what? It doesn't mean you can't be good or get better, and its certainly no reason to go discouraging other people from putting hard work into what they love. We're not all professional musicians and we can't all afford to practice full time but that doesn't mean its hopeless and it's certainly not grounds for giving up.

This thread is going in circles and I'm saying this as a warning: I'm keeping an eye on this and everything is cool if there's some actual intelligent conversation going on. If people are just going to use this as a platform to discourage other users (and themselves) warnings will go out and this thread will be closed.
Composite Aficionado


Spector and Markbass
#32
Quote by lalopunk
THIS

what else can you expect them to say?

When the average guitar player who still cannot play steve vai, malmsteen, satriani tunes, despite his efforts, all he has left is just practice, and hope for the best

that is all you could do, there is no guarantee that you will even come close to their level, and you will be able to play their tunes pefectly, all you can do is hope

they believe that anyone can achieve it with hard work and dedication, yet majority of guitar players on this site, dont even come close to playing steve vai, and all those shredders tunes, and if they do, is just half ass, with mistakes, lack of speed, not correct

how come only a few people on youtube can play these shredders covers with same accuracy and speed, and rest of thousands who are also fans, cannot? just practice?

i refuse to believe it

some of us have been practicing for many years, yet still cannot reach this level of speed and technique, majority of kids on this site have probably been playing for less, and have no idea

guess what, progress is not linear, more years and more hours of practice, doesnt mean shit, it doesnt mean you are guaranteed to become a virtuoso, you practice 10 hours a day for years, and still never reach that virtuoso level

some people simply progress faster than others

how come this kid mattrach on youtube, at 16 years could play vai and satriani like is n0thing, how do u explain that shit? practice lmao wake up

majority of us will never reach virtuoso level, or maybe we will but since we progress so slowly due to not having talent it will take u decades



If you honestly believe some people can magically play things just because their "talented" then you need to put your head on straight. I am 100% sure all those people who you mentioned to be super talented have practiced their asses off for years at a time.


No one is born playing the guitar plus all fast playing is based off of just muscle memory anyone can play fast if they practice the right way. Technique takes time to build it just doesn't happen over night. I must also add that most people don't really give 2 shits about playing fast they just want to be musical, but everyone has different goals on the guitar.


OP is just another example of why it's bad to chase speed, and I think everyone should really learn from this post. OP also seems to think that guitar playing is some sort of competition when there is no such thing as the best guitarist it's all subjective nobody cares how fast you can play something, but people do care how good your playing sounds. Some of the best guitar solos aren't even that technical what they are is melodic which is the most important thing when it comes down to music.

Let's be real here did most of us get into guitar playing because we saw someone shredding away at scales or did we get into it for the sake of making music?





By the way some of the best guitar players aren't even that technical Steve Vai admires Hendrix he might have sloppy technique, but he makes beautiful music which is all that matters.


Last edited by Black_devils at Jul 20, 2014,
#33
I think most people miss the point with fast playing. Those guys, Vai, Satriani et al's technical ability (speed) is a product of their creativity. Creativity pushes your technical ability but if you've got nothing to say then you're just learning to play fast for the sake of it, which is kind of pointless. A technique will come to you when you have something worth expressing that requires it... Or I could be full of s*** lol.
#34
All right, no need to be dickish about it guys. If you've practised what you think is a lot and see a few people playing really well on what you think isn't much practice time it's all too easy to become disheartened. I'll admit I wasn't being subtle... but there's only so many ways you can say "you're wrong". I wasn't being a jerk about it though


The level of disrespect OP is giving to the guitarist that dedicate to their own guitar playing is absurd.

"You can shred? WOW you are talented!". Innate talent is just loser's talk.

I used to be a street dancer couple of years ago.
Those old days when I was at a level that me and my crew mate performed about 6 shows within half a year.
And all of us were still in high school or having our own jobs. The tough schedule taught us how dedicated to our passion. Literally every member of our crew, dance more than sleep.
And you know what is disheartened?
When someone come to your face and say "WOW there's some serious power-moves right here! You are so talented!
They have no idea.
Do you feel like I do!?
Last edited by EddieHet at Jul 20, 2014,
#35
Quote by Tostitos
The problem with this thread is that some people seem to be missing the point, that one should be playing guitar for personal enjoyment and to make music for the enjoyment of others.


Very true, can't believe I didn't say anything about this myself!

Although I would say... nuts to others, do it for yourself and if other people enjoy it then hooray

Quote by Black_devils
Let's be real here did most of us get into guitar playing because we saw someone shredding away at scales or did we get into it for the sake of making music?


It would be disingenuous of me to silently agree with this. I actually did get in to guitar because I saw John Petrucci shred and thought "I want to do that". For the first few years that was literally all I wanted to do with no real regard to anything much else.

It doesn't really matter that much either way anyway, people start for many different reasons and realistically almost everyone gets to the "speed doesn't matter much at all" stage sooner or later.

Quote by EddieHet
The level of disrespect OP is giving to the guitarist that dedicate to their own guitar playing is absurd.

"You can shred? You have talent."

Innate talent is just loser's talk.

I used to be a street dancer couple of years ago.
Those old days when I was at a level that me and my crew mate performed about 6 shows within half a year.
And all of us were still in high school or having our own jobs. The tough schedule taught us how dedicated to our passion. Literally every member of our crew, dance more than sleep.
And you know what is disheartened?
When someone come to your face and say "WOW there's some serious power-moves right here! You are so talented!
They have no idea.


Doesn't matter. Don't be a jerk. If someone is being disrespectful then you explain why it is so in a civil manner. I'm quite familiar with the issues with the word "talent" and I dislike it as well but being a jerk about it doesn't help anyone.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
Last edited by Zaphod_Beeblebr at Jul 20, 2014,
#36
I actually have the ability to "shred" it took some work and some tallent, but here is the reality very few people give a flying duece how fast you can't melt frets. What they care about is the following, are you capable of not being a douche? How well do you work in a group? Are you capable of writing good tunes? Very rarely you will be asked "Hey man can you shred?" Here's the thing are you translating what's in your head into notes with your guitar? Because that's what you want to do as a guitarist not just vomit out notes.
Quote by joshua garcia
I was incredibly drunk and only really remember writing a fanfic where ESP was getting porked by a pony.

Quote by guitar0player
I'd honestly fap to anything with a set of genitals as long as I find it aesthetically appealing.
#37
In my opinion music is not an Olympic sport,It's a way to create art and express emotions.Every guitarist is different,You can only be the best that YOU can be.Don't try to copy other people,Create your own music and make it sound like YOU.Satriani and Vai did'nt get where are from copying other people,Yes they were influenced but they created their own music in their own respective styles.
Last edited by EyeballPaul at Jul 21, 2014,
#38
The fortunate side to guitar playing is that it is not simply a physical activity. There's this whole "creativity" aspect that weighs in just as heavily if not more heavily than the sheer physical obstacles that one must overcome. To use the Olympic track racing analogy yet again, you don't hear the third-place runner saying "I may have gotten third-place, but did you see my form coming around that last bend?" In guitar playing, that "form" and composition is everything. The execution of it need not be done at light-speed to be brilliant music.

I will concede that not all are created equal. Some people are simply more dexterous than others, which can aid in a faster development of shred skills. But a wise player finds ways to overcome his or her physical limitations.

Finally, take a guitarist like B.B. King. If it came down to just speed, I could play circles around him. But how come I don't play sellout shows all across the U.S. and beyond?
#39
Quote by KailM


Finally, take a guitarist like B.B. King. If it came down to just speed, I could play circles around him. But how come I don't play sellout shows all across the U.S. and beyond?

This is great!
#40
Quote by lalopunk

People dont have max speed. Their techniques limit it. If you stop improving at some point, you are just at top speed your technique allowe. You just need to change it. Thats the whole deal. If you either do too big movements or aply too much preassure. It will not get better itself. You have to start focusing on it.
Page 1 of 2