#1
What exactly do these "true" metalheads hate about metalcore? I've seen hate towards the image (ie: an "emo" look) and the fanbase, but one, what the hell does image have to do with music, and two, there's always rational fans in every fanbase. I'm one of those rational fans, and I can come up with a good debunking of a lot of the common deplorable logic that these "true" metalheads come up with, and I'll even debunk it in this same post to save time.

Generic: Yeah, you're right for the most part. But I think as a band you should sound good more than original. Try too hard to be original, you've got ****ing Design the Skyline. That sounds like Chewbacca taking a shit, and it doesn't sound like anything else I've ever heard. Generic really isn't a reason for me to hate a band. I like some of the most generic shit out there.

Too many breakdowns: then you're listening to the wrong bands. Try something other than Asking Alexandria, Attack Attack, or Motionless In White. All of those guys bastardize breakdowns. Listen to the following: All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, old Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for My Valentine, Converge, Earth Crisis, Empty Your Lungs, Killswitch Engage, Miss May I, Parkway Drive, Shadows Fall, Trivium, Zao. Those bands don't bastardize breakdowns, or at least not quite to the same extreme as the electronicore guys.

Too mainstream: ****ing hipster. They're not really that mainstream. None have sold platinum. And did you not know how little bands get for their music? I'm not even going to describe it, but it's 15%. So if this is too mainstream for you, then your bands are ****ing starving right now. And don't give me that "they get money from live shows" crap, because if not very many people buy the record, god knows how many people are at their shows. And not to mention underground bands charge too low for how little known they are.

"Emo" lyrics: Wtf? So now if a band has more than two songs about losing someone you cared deeply for, like a girlfriend, they're emo? Get that shit outta here. Get it out. A lot of people can relate to that. And besides, FADE TO BLACK by Metallica, is about the contemplation of suicide, and you never called them emo for it. These guys don't really speak of wanting to kill themselves in their songs. Hell, not even actual emo bands (ie: Jawbreaker, Sunny Day Real Estate, Red Jumpsuit Apparatus, My Chemical Romance and Thursday) sing about that shit.

Not enough solos: AGAIN!!! You're just listening to the wrong bands. Listen to any of the ones I listed up at the Too Many Breakdowns debunk.

PS: if you say "because they aren't good" I'll take that as if you misread the title as "WHY do "true" Metalheads hate metalcore?" because this is about WHAT they hate about it. IN DETAIL.
#2
Metalcore (by it's very name) is'nt just metal...it's metal & hardcore (more like pop-punk) which has come together.

'True' metal (since you called it that) is just that...Metal.

Honestly there's nothing about metalcore that appeals to me (vocals/guitars/drums/production etc) ....just from a purely auditory perspective....the lyrics/image everything....but then I started out with metal in the 80's so maybe that's why....
#3
Because 90% of it is boring, repetitive and generic. There are some good ones out there don't get me wrong, but they're the minority in a sea of shit.
#4
Listen to the following: All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, old Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for My Valentine, Converge, Earth Crisis, Empty Your Lungs, Killswitch Engage, Miss May I, Parkway Drive, Shadows Fall, Trivium, Zao.



I dislike the vocals in all of these bands, I find their riffs boring, I have yet to hear any lyrics that really connect with me or interest me in the slightest - the examples i have heard lack maturity. "Kill your enemies!" No thanks Matt Tuck, I'd rather not.
Last edited by AccountAttempt4 at Jul 20, 2014,
#5
Because music is subjective, if you would ask me why i don't like "true" metal i would just copy paste Jimjambanx's comment.
#6
Basically it's just like ,, look how good that guy can chug the open e-string!!!''
Seriously, I hate those kids who come to our shows and are like ,, yeah, good music, but you guys really need breakdowns'' No. I don't need more pseudo-technical low e-string chugging.

To me it's just a whole different type of music. Also I really hate those pop-core bands like Asking Alexandria. It's like breakdownbreakdownbreakdown - growling - breakdown - Justin Bieber like autotuned pop melody - breakdown - growling.
How can you call that stuff metal?

Also most of the fans are funny as hell, they always pretend to be sooo far away from mainstream, yet most of the melodies in that music are pure pop melodies and these people all look the same. They created their own mainstream with wearing tight jeans, stupid hats, tons of piercings and somehow there seems to be a mystic kinda law that everyone has to have tons of colourful tattoos which all look the same ( stars, owls, ships, guns etc )
Damn..I even like our stupid German gangsta rap more than metalcore.

Short eddit:
Also I really dislike that fiddly kinda core. You know, that stuff with those kids who learned how to play scales very fast. That's even more repetive to me than all that 150-breakdowns-in-one-song stuff.
It all just sounds like one band recoreded hundreds of albums and each time they just took a different vocalist.
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Last edited by Oh_My_Goth at Jul 20, 2014,
#7
Because people still listen to it and that just ain't metal.
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#8
This is where the vague elitism of the hardcore forum actually can come in useful

Quote by GodOfEmptyness
Metalcore (by it's very name) is'nt just metal...it's metal & hardcore (more like pop-punk) which has come together.


This isn't true in relation to the majority of bands that TS has mentioned. There is no real hardcore influence in what is now known as Metalcore, breakdowns =/= hardcore. That is what Metalcore SHOULD mean, but in practise it hasn't for almost 15 years, if not longer. The term Metalcore was invented in the 90's as a joke term for Hardcore bands that were heavily influenced by metal, stuff like Deadguy; for a longer list of metallic hardcore bands that fit that description we have a tr00 Metalcore thread floating about somewhere.

https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1598330&

Quote by Interview with Matt Fox, guitarist of Shai Hulud


You’ve said in the past that you think Shai Hulud is a true example of the subgenre “metalcore.” Given the negative connotations often associated with that tag, do you still embrace it? Or do you feel like those negative connotations are unwarranted?

Taking the term literally, and breaking it apart, yes, we definitely are a true example of “metalcore,” a hybrid of hardcore and metal. When we used to joke with the term, it was just a clever (or not so clever) way of describing a metallic hardcore, metal-influenced hardcore, or hardcore-influenced metal band. My friends and I would listen to Deadguy and say “this isn’t HARDcore, it’s METALcore,” which made sense based on the music they played, combined with the attitude and ethic of the band. Same thing used to be said for Earth Crisis, Integrity, Coalesce, Unbroken, and a lot of the 90’s bands that incorporated heavier riffs and more progressive structuring and ideas into their songs. When the term “metalcore” was thrown around back then it was very tongue-in-cheek; this, obviously, long before it became a legitimate genre, it’s current legitimacy being highly debatable, of course.

“Metalcore,” the actual genre in 2008 doesn’t usually seem like a hybrid of hardcore and metal as much as it just seems like metal, only written by people who imitate it rather than love it, typically resulting in trite and shallow music. If this accurately describes “metalcore” then we clearly do not embrace the term. Conversely, if Earth Crisis and Deadguy define “metalcore, ” count us in.

I do cringe when I see Shai Hulud listed as “metalcore” these days because it implies a sound and look we simply don’t have. But at the end of the day, I don’t really care what anyone wants to call us. I’m too busy and tired to argue with anyone about how to categorize our band. What the hell do we really care? No label imposed on us will ever affect what we look or sound like. We define that exclusively through our individual personalities and music. Plus, we’re too busy fighting the battle of trying to get our name spelled correctly to worry about some halfwit who says we play polka while some other brainiac says we play “metalcore.”



The reason most metal heads dislike modern metalcore is simply because it's metal written from a perspective of someone who knows very little about actual metal. The pedal riff era metalcore DID in theory spring from the tr00 metalcore era but it kept adding more metal and draining out the hardcore until at that was left was Gothenburg Style Melodeath written by people who don't really get it. It was, as Matt Fox said in that interview, metal by imitation. Everyone started badly copying bands who did kinda pedal riff but were still hardcore (Like Shai Hulud) and then everyone just started imitating the imitators.

Metalheads dislike metalcore because for the most part it's just bad metal. It's metal without the edge and complexity. If nothing else it's Metal that comes from a VERY different origin than most "true" metal and that effects the sound and direction of the music. It's a self contained thing. (For the record I like Metalcore, including some of the modern stuff.)

Also the term Metalcore has been related to at least three different styles of music since the first use of the word, it'd help TS if you defined your sounds a little more clearly.
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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Jul 20, 2014,
#10
Quote by AccountAttempt4
I dislike the vocals in all of these bands, I find their riffs boring, I have yet to hear any lyrics that really connect with me or interest me in the slightest - the examples i have heard lack maturity. "Kill your enemies!" No thanks Matt Tuck, I'd rather not.


You didn't really use the more relatable Matt lyrics. Try something off the Poison, or even Fever. Songs like Room 409, Your Betrayal, and Pleasure and Pain. Also I don't think that "true" metal vocals (growling or yelling) is all that special. It's not even full sounding, just look at Chris Barnes.
Last edited by masonpearmain at Jul 20, 2014,
#11
Quote by Jimjambanx
Because 90% of it is boring, repetitive and generic. There are some good ones out there don't get me wrong, but they're the minority in a sea of shit.


I've come to appreciate the repetitive nature in modern metalcore. As for generic, you are right.
#12
Quote by GodOfEmptyness
Metalcore (by it's very name) is'nt just metal...it's metal & hardcore (more like pop-punk) which has come together.

'True' metal (since you called it that) is just that...Metal.

Honestly there's nothing about metalcore that appeals to me (vocals/guitars/drums/production etc) ....just from a purely auditory perspective....the lyrics/image everything....but then I started out with metal in the 80's so maybe that's why....


Well, what's wrong with a fusion of different genres? I have a varied taste, and I even like a bit of rap and some country.... What is wrong with that?
#13
Quote by NWD2100
I agree that it is subjective. Now the way a guy dresses says something about the music? Whatever to each their own. I know that I mostly listen to metal but I don't call myself a metal head.

Enjoying metal should not limit you to a set of strict rules. This is why I don't think true metal means anything. To me it seems like narcissism. I don't see anybody calling rap true rap, or rock true rock. As if to say the other stuff that you dislike isn't true it is fake because it doesn't conform to these set of rules you created inside of you're head.

It's no wonder why true metal guys hate on all that stuff. They are so strict and set in their ways. I think James Hetfield said something of this nature in an interview. The funny thing is, a true metal guy would probably say Metallica sucks they sold out.

Some of the stuff you listed though isn't really my cup of tea. I am not a fan of Asking Alexandria or Attack, Attack. Bfmv and Shadows Fall had some good songs.


I just have to say this.... I ****ING LOVE YOU!!! Oh my god. What you said was so true.
#14
Also if metalcore isn't true metal because of hardcore influence, then neither is thrash metal or death metal. Death takes from thrash, and thrash takes from hardcore too.
#15
Quote by Oh_My_Goth
Basically it's just like ,, look how good that guy can chug the open e-string!!!''
Seriously, I hate those kids who come to our shows and are like ,, yeah, good music, but you guys really need breakdowns'' No. I don't need more pseudo-technical low e-string chugging.

To me it's just a whole different type of music. Also I really hate those pop-core bands like Asking Alexandria. It's like breakdownbreakdownbreakdown - growling - breakdown - Justin Bieber like autotuned pop melody - breakdown - growling.
How can you call that stuff metal?

Also most of the fans are funny as hell, they always pretend to be sooo far away from mainstream, yet most of the melodies in that music are pure pop melodies and these people all look the same. They created their own mainstream with wearing tight jeans, stupid hats, tons of piercings and somehow there seems to be a mystic kinda law that everyone has to have tons of colourful tattoos which all look the same ( stars, owls, ships, guns etc )
Damn..I even like our stupid German gangsta rap more than metalcore.

Short eddit:
Also I really dislike that fiddly kinda core. You know, that stuff with those kids who learned how to play scales very fast. That's even more repetive to me than all that 150-breakdowns-in-one-song stuff.
It all just sounds like one band recoreded hundreds of albums and each time they just took a different vocalist.


I personally couldnt give a rats ass less about breakdowns.
#16
it's gay, duh.

Real answer: most metalcore, and what can be described as "nu-metalcore" is metal watered down for the masses, it's a bastardized version of metal, made rated G, low fat, no sugar, inoffensive, sing along, grandma friendly, bullshit.
#17
*insert what ChemicalFire said here and reinforce fact that he is right despite everyone ignoring him*
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#18
Quote by masonpearmain
All That Remains, As I Lay Dying, old Avenged Sevenfold, Bullet for My Valentine, Converge, Earth Crisis, Empty Your Lungs, Killswitch Engage, Miss May I, Parkway Drive, Shadows Fall, Trivium, Zao.

I'm still trying to figure out how you lumped Earth Crisis, Zao, & Converge in with those other groups. Those 3 bands are actually "metalcore", as in "metallic hardcore".


The rest are just watered down metal or punk mixed with metal.
#19
I have a feeling this thread was created as some kind of attempt at "righteous metalcore avenger against the mean tr00 metalheads" more than an actual discussion based on TS' replies.
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#20
Quote by ChemicalFire
I have a feeling this thread was created as some kind of attempt at "righteous metalcore avenger against the mean tr00 metalheads" more than an actual discussion based on TS' replies.


Bro do you even metalcore?


.......... I can't believe i just stooped to that level and said "bro"
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#21
The guitarist from August Burns Red couldn't have put it better..

"We’ve done our best with each new album to try to push our sound in new directions and we’d like to see our peers do the same. People need to realize that there’s not much of a difference between a metalcore song that has a couple breakdowns with a repeating chorus and the latest Lady Gaga song. This genre used to be better than that. It can still be better than that"

There was a longer rant somewhere, I can't find it now lol
#23
Quote by kconrad83090
People need to realize that there’s not much of a difference between an august burns red song and a Lady Gaga song. This genre used to be better than that. It can still be better than that"


yeah
#24
Quote by Morphogenesis26
How 'bout "shut the **** up"?


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#25
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

I don't care that your name probably isn't Johnny. Just work with me.


How I really feel?



How 'bout "shut the **** up"?
#26
All of you shut the **** up.
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#27
Most "true" metalheads look toward "pure" metal music with no genre blending.

They imply Metalcore is way too mixed with pop/punk-rock .
Plus,they say metalcore is far simple(no matter how pleasant easy melodies can be).

Basically:
They want no mixage of clean and brutal vocals nor soft and heavy music.

I'm quite the opposite of that. Metalcore is the heaviest I can listen to,mostly due to its shifting between pop-punk and metal.
I'm mostly a hard rocker despite being into pop stuff as well
Last edited by viniciusrocha1 at Jan 5, 2017,