#1
Many of the guitar virtuosos of today, such as steve vai, satriani, malmsteem, gilbert, etc, when asked on how they developed their amazing technique and guitar playing skills, they attribute it to practicing 10, even 15 hours a day for many years, and since the average person, who has a job, school, social life, family, is very unlikely to practice this much for long, they fall for it line and sinker. These kids believe that the reason these guitar players, and even youtube players, such as mattrach, cesar huesca, gustavo guerra, are so much better than them, is because they have simply practiced 10-15 hours a day for years. when in reality is a bullshit lie just to make the person look cooler, and more hard working, than they really are.

Obviously, saying that your amazing playing skills, which made you famous, is all due to many hours of practice, sounds much cooler, and makes you look more hardworking than saying that you simply have talent, and it came natural to you. I don't doubt that these people have practiced a lot, but the 10-12 hours a day practice is a gimmick, is bullshit.

It is very similar to the 1000 crunches a day, that many celebrities would claim in early 2000s. They would attribute their abdominal definition, to doing 1000 crunches a day, so they would come off as more hard working and decicated to the public, when in reality, they knew full well, that their abs were due to low body fat, which are built in the kitcchen, and not from doing crunches. Abdominal exercises do not burn adominal fat.

This is very similar to steroids in bodybuilding. There are many who use steroids, and claim natural, especially on youtube. They make kids believe that you can achieve their look with just enough hard work and dedication. Many of these gullible kids refuse to believe that their youtube fitness idols, could be on roids, they have been training for many years, they say, you are just jealous. They believe that with just enough hard work, dedication, and years of training, they will look like that fitness model in the magazine. LOL they will wake up soon enough.

Do you really think that 10 hours will be done in correct practice, and you will make progress in each of these hours? even if spaced out throughout the day, who can practice CORRECTLY each and every hour out of those 10? NOBODY.

Do you really think, you can practice difficult things, outside your comfort zone, which lead to improvement, for 10 hours, a day? lol That is basically more than half of your waking day.

There are virtuosos, who even claim 15 hours a day, are you kidding me? Your waking day has 16 hours and the foolish kids fall for it. lol

There is no real proof that they have actually practiced 10 hours a day for many years, and that is the reason why they became so good, it could be a lie, no proof, except their words, what a coincidence, that all of them say the same thing, some even claim 15 hours a day lol. Kids here are quick to say, oh they have practiced 10 10 hours a day, they use it as an argument to explain why they are so good, as if it was fact, where is your proof that they have? you have nothing, are you that gullible that you believe everything people say, especially celebs? You know people lie right?

If you ask any of these guitar virtuosos, how they developed their technique and speed, not only they claim 10 hours a day, but they also, have no idea, what exactly they did, they simply tell you that they practiced their ass off. Steve vai claims, that he would sleep with the guitar, and never leave his room. lol

These virtuosos seem to dislike when people ask them about technique and speed. They refuse to give exercises and specifics. They usually say, that you shouldn't focus too much on technique. They avoid these questions. Steve vai has been asked many times, yet he never goes into detail, he rarely speaks about technique and speed, and when he does , he is very vague, instead, tells you not to care about it. Same thing, for many of the virtuosos on youtube. Huesca, mattrach, guerra.

EASY TO SAY THAT WE SHOULDN'T CARE, when they already have the speed and technique we all desire to have.

The truth is that even though, they practiced a lot, they didn't practice 10 hours a day, we have no proof, except their words, and even if they did, it doesn't matter, because is impossible to make correct practice in all of those 10 hours, and impossible to make progress in each and every hour. The reality is that the reason why they became famous on the guitar scene, and youtube, is mainly because they are talented. They progressed much faster than others who practice at similar intensity, due to a physiological advantage. The reason why they are admired by thousands, and you are not, is because they are more talented than you and all of us. Otherwise, you would be the ones in their place.

Anyone can learn to play guitar, and even play some decent solos, but at the advanced level, what separates the virtuosos from the average joes, is 100% talent.

Is similar to singing, anyone with some singing lessons, can learn to sing in tune, and sound decent, but what separates those amazing voices in singing contests, from the average joe, is all talent.

If all you had to do was practice 10 hours a day for many years, then there would be thousands of Steve Vais, Satrianis, Mattrachs, Malmsteems on youtube.

The fact, that there aren't, is proof that practice alone is not everything. The fact that only a few guitar players are virtuosos is proof that practice is not everything. The fact that only a few kids on youtube are able to play these virtuoso covers with same accuracy and speed, and the rest of thousands cannot, is proof that practice is not everything.

In the past 10 years, there are have been millions of kids, who were foreveralone, had no jobs, and pretty much had all day to practice, 10 hours a day, yet you don't see steve vais popping up lol.

Time to wake up
#2
As for Yngwie look for powerhouse on youtube. People do wonder if he was 15 at that time and yes he was. Obsessed with the guitar and that only if you read Relentless his book. The videos are good proof.

It depends on what you practise and your goals if you can find the time. Do you really need to take 20 years to get to ex 40 in Speed Mechanics by Troy Stetina?

Now talent is the question but if you are already nuts about the guitar and playing it is the only thing that matters practise for 10 hours a day should get great results if the hours spend were productive/effecient. The same as normal day job + extra time.

Guitar players are people and we are all a like but our thoughts make the results. Think about that for a while. If we want to master something that we find difficult we need to think it, feel it and do it to get there. That is the main key/system to follow.

That is what our favorite players did at some point and as it is universial for humans it does not only apply to guitar players but all people and everything else in life! Only few are aware of how thoughts actually work.

The 10 hour work out by Pebber Brown is something to check out at least if you are interested enough and have the time.

By the way if our favorite players does avoid the speed subject it is properly that it is a by product of playing certain things at certain bmps. How many ways can you explain that and the way to achieve it? Practise to a beat until you got it regardless of speed.
Last edited by anders.jorgense at Jul 23, 2014,
#4
look at steve vai 30 hour workout, do you really think you will make progress with those simple exercises, if you just practice them many hours a day? lol it seems that he was asked by some guitar magazine, to come up with some bullshit 10 hour workout, and add any exercises he could, so they could sell better.

You can bet, steve vai was paid big by this magazine, and it worked, because kids thought, that if they did steve vai workout, then they could achieve his technique and speed lol

I have been playing for a decade, look at my join date, and then look at yours. I have researched and searched for workouts for years. I have read every single 10 hour workout out there, they are nothing out of the ordinary, simple basic exercises.

And what a coincidence, that these ten hours workouts, are always published in magazines lol is more like a gimmick, it sells, it tricks people into believing that if they do these workouts, then they will be able to play like their idols.

It is very similar, to bodybuilding magazines, they publish all these bodybuilders workouts, making noobs believe that if they follow their idol workout, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, then they will look like him?

People believe that these guitar virtuosos achieved their technique by 10 hours of practice a day for many years. These virtuosos claim that most of their chops were built in the 70s and 80s.

Yet, think about the 70s and 80s, back then, there was no internet, there were very few guitar magazines if at all, very few guitar books, no instructional videos, no youtube, no internet help, no guitar forums, no access to all kinds of exercises. Also, majority of these virtuosos claim to be self taught.

So, how did these virtuosos know what to practice, when to practice, how to progress, how to make a perfect practice routine, how did they know that practicing 10 hours a day would lead to faster progress?

They didn't know much, it was all intuition. They themselves, cannot even recall what they actually practiced, they never go into detail, they never mention what they really did to achieve that technique and speed. It was talent, that allowed them to progress faster than others, despite not having the greatest of practices.

Even, today, with all the help you have now, internet, videos, youtube, magazines, forums, you are still stuck here, you cannot even reach these virtuosos, who had no help at all.

You may say, well they have been playing for longer than I have, yet guitar progress is not linear, for example, Steve Vai, is 54 years old now, he started playing at age 13, that is 41 years of playing.

DO YOU HAPPEN TO THINK, he has made progress in all those 41 years? LOL no

He built his technique in the first 10 years, and the rest is just maintaining, polishing, adding little touches, but his main technique and speed, was built in the first 10 years. This is why you always hear him saying that he hasn't practiced in years.

The more years you play, doesn't mean better playing. You cannot use the "they have been playing for more years than I have" as an excuse to why they are better than you are.
Last edited by lalopunk at Jul 23, 2014,
#5
Oh hello again, i see that you couldn't let this go despite the last thread you made which is about the same exact topic (Talent vs Practice) got closed. That is fine and all, but i don't think you are going to convince anyone just cause you make a new thread and re-phrase your argument.

You are right, practice is not everything. Creativity and your upbringing matters aswell, but i still won't support your argument regarding talent. We'll have to agree to disagree.

/Thread
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#6
Quote by Sickz
Oh hello again, i see that you couldn't let this go despite the last thread you made which is about the same exact topic (Talent vs Practice) got closed. That is fine and all, but i don't think you are going to convince anyone just cause you make a new thread and re-phrase your argument.

You are right, practice is not everything. Creativity and your upbringing matters aswell, but i still won't support your argument regarding talent. We'll have to agree to disagree.

/Thread


I like how you refuse to acknowledge that talent is very important in instrumental playing lol
#7
Quote by lalopunk
I like how you refuse to acknowledge that talent is very important in instrumental playing lol


I believe that some people have an easier time getting started and might progress faster in the beginning, but i mainly think that is because of the way they practice, not by any genetics or inherent talent. I have tested this before on my students, asked them to record their practice sessions and write down what they thought about when practicing. The ones that progressed had a couple of things in common.

1. They were the ones that did not focus on the speed, they played it at a speed were they could play relaxed and perfectly.

2. They paid attention to detail. They didn't just want to put the fingers in the right place and play the notes, they wanted all the elements of music to be as on the recording. The tone, dynamics, space etc. They paid attention to their movements (when they were too big), how relaxed they were, and how their body posture and breathing was functioning.

3. They were curious. They weren't close-minded people, they were open to learn anything. Even if it was a tune like happy birthday or Giant Steps.

4. They had patience and didn't rush things. I could see the students that were trying fast too soon speeding up the bpm too quickly and not letting their playing adjust. The students that progressed more and more quickly took their time.

5. They had very focused practice sessions, about 1-3 hours long. The students that didn't progress as much had either longer or shorter sessions, but didn't practice as much and noodled around more. And more importantly, they enjoyed practicing, it did not become a chore.

I have seen this with my own eyes, and it has not changed yet. The students that are now studying at college for music were the ones i mentioned, while the other ones were the ones that kept it as a hobby or quit.

We'll have to agree to disagree.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#8
when i was in high school i spent a good 6 hours a day at least learning songs or trying to figure things out or reading about theory adn im one fo the best guitarists i know

i think the "talent" most people talk about is being so obsessed with the thing that they cant stop doing it despite their life around them
#9
Quote by lalopunk
look at steve vai 30 hour workout, do you really think you will make progress with those simple exercises, if you just practice them many hours a day? lol it seems that he was asked by some guitar magazine, to come up with some bullshit 10 hour workout, and add any exercises he could, so they could sell better.

You can bet, steve vai was paid big by this magazine, and it worked, because kids thought, that if they did steve vai workout, then they could achieve his technique and speed lol

I have been playing for a decade, look at my join date, and then look at yours. I have researched and searched for workouts for years. I have read every single 10 hour workout out there, they are nothing out of the ordinary, simple basic exercises.

And what a coincidence, that these ten hours workouts, are always published in magazines lol is more like a gimmick, it sells, it tricks people into believing that if they do these workouts, then they will be able to play like their idols.

It is very similar, to bodybuilding magazines, they publish all these bodybuilders workouts, making noobs believe that if they follow their idol workout, such as Arnold Schwarzenegger, then they will look like him?

People believe that these guitar virtuosos achieved their technique by 10 hours of practice a day for many years. These virtuosos claim that most of their chops were built in the 70s and 80s.

Yet, think about the 70s and 80s, back then, there was no internet, there were very few guitar magazines if at all, very few guitar books, no instructional videos, no youtube, no internet help, no guitar forums, no access to all kinds of exercises. Also, majority of these virtuosos claim to be self taught.

So, how did these virtuosos know what to practice, when to practice, how to progress, how to make a perfect practice routine, how did they know that practicing 10 hours a day would lead to faster progress?

They didn't know much, it was all intuition. They themselves, cannot even recall what they actually practiced, they never go into detail, they never mention what they really did to achieve that technique and speed. It was talent, that allowed them to progress faster than others, despite not having the greatest of practices.

Even, today, with all the help you have now, internet, videos, youtube, magazines, forums, you are still stuck here, you cannot even reach these virtuosos, who had no help at all.

You may say, well they have been playing for longer than I have, yet guitar progress is not linear, for example, Steve Vai, is 54 years old now, he started playing at age 13, that is 41 years of playing.

DO YOU HAPPEN TO THINK, he has made progress in all those 41 years? LOL no

He built his technique in the first 10 years, and the rest is just maintaining, polishing, adding little touches, but his main technique and speed, was built in the first 10 years. This is why you always hear him saying that he hasn't practiced in years.

The more years you play, doesn't mean better playing. You cannot use the "they have been playing for more years than I have" as an excuse to why they are better than you are.


What are you really trying to point out here? If a ramble on is all you can do please make it simple!

The guitar is limit less so allways something to learn at any given time.

Yes guitar magazines bring the same stuff all the time but it works for their target groups. That is marketing. Long time readers will find it boring at some point.

Comparing yourself to others who cares? Kurt Cobain did point this out well enough that songs were important not guitar skills. You need to find the balance and if highly skilled can work for you rock on!
#10
I'm only posting here to tell TS that his OP is far too long and should feel ashamed for spending that long constructing a post on a guitar forum.


Feel bad TS, feel bad.
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#11
Quote by lalopunk

Do you really think that 10 hours will be done in correct practice, and you will make progress in each of these hours? even if spaced out throughout the day, who can practice CORRECTLY each and every hour out of those 10? NOBODY.


I think it's pretty obvious that they didn't do everything correctly. I don't even think they try to hide this. There are many well known and idolized guitarists out there that have bad technique and do things that are 'wrong' simply because they learnt how to do it wrong, usually due to a lack of teacher/proper guidance.


Quote by lalopunk
There are virtuosos, who even claim 15 hours a day, are you kidding me? Your waking day has 16 hours and the foolish kids fall for it. lol


The AVERAGE waking day has 16 hours. My average waking day is more like 18-19 hours.
It's entirely possible for these guys to have played 10-15 hours a day. I've ended up for up to 10 hours on more than one occasion, so these guys who are way more passionate about it would probably do it as a regular thing.
Not to mention they're usually at an age where they're in/just finished school and have no other commitments when they claim these large practice times.

Do I think they did this? Possibly, though I doubt it was every single day. More like a regular weekly 'guitar day'.


Quote by lalopunk
There is no real proof that they have actually practiced 10 hours a day for many years, and that is the reason why they became so good, it could be a lie, no proof, except their words


True, but there is no real proof that most people have practiced their instrument for any amount of time at all. It's not something that you tend to record any proof of, especially when these guys where younger and didn't have access to video/audio recording equipment like we do.
I could just as easily walk into a public area, bust out a sweet as hell solo and claim that I've never even touched a guitar before. If anybody questions me, I could ask them to prove I haven't and they would really struggle to.


Quote by lalopunk
If you ask any of these guitar virtuosos, how they developed their technique and speed, not only they claim 10 hours a day, but they also, have no idea, what exactly they did, they simply tell you that they practiced their ass off.


I'm not entirely sure how I got to my current level of playing either. It's not something I keep a record of..."Dear diary, today I managed to bust out my first pinch harmonic".
I can give advice on stuff because I've learnt how to play but ask me what exactly I did in what order and I'll probably say the same thing, "I practiced my ass off".


Quote by lalopunk
Anyone can learn to play guitar, and even play some decent solos, but at the advanced level, what separates the virtuosos from the average joes, is 100% talent.


Bold claim. If you're passing this off as a fact I would like some evidence that doesn't start with the words "I think..."
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#12
Yep. It's all a conspiracy. Everyone's lying to everyone else about everything. Nothing is done with work and perseverance.

*reported*
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#13
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Yep. It's all a conspiracy. Everyone's lying to everyone else about everything. Nothing is done with work and perseverance.

*reported*


lol at reported

so just because you don't like the information I have written, then it should be reported? self righteous much?

so typical of internet forums

I have not broken any rules by writing my opinion about the 10 hour workouts. I haven't offended anybody, I haven't attacked anybody, but just because some people like you don't like to read certain things or topics, because it shocks and contradicts your belief system, and they think they have the right to shut someone down. As far as I know we are all free to express our opinion about guitar topics, as long as we don't break the rules.

If you don't like what I have written, then don't comment, and move on

time to get off your high horse kid
Last edited by lalopunk at Jul 23, 2014,
#14
#1 stop saying "lol" at the end of every sentence.

#2 I know for a fact that when I was taking guitar lessons from a music prof. as a kid, he did practice about 10 hours a day. It was his life, it was all he ever did. Did he do it every single day? Obviously not. But his practice routine was about 10 hours. His wife attested to this, said that was basically all he did.

#3 believe whatever you want. I tell people I work a 12 hour office day 5 days a week. Do I work 12 hours every office day? No, some days are 8 some are 10 and some are 14 or more, it just depends. 12 is average for me. Perhaps you're taking the "10 hour practice day" a little too literally.
#16
Quote by Faux
I practice 8-12 hours a day, not everyday but usually 4 or 5 out of 7..


nice life
#17
Quote by lalopunk
lol at reported

so just because you don't like the information I have written, then it should be reported? self righteous much?

so typical of internet forums

I have not broken any rules by writing my opinion about the 10 hour workouts. I haven't offended anybody, I haven't attacked anybody, but just because some people like you don't like to read certain things or topics, because it shocks and contradicts your belief system, and they think they have the right to shut someone down. As far as I know we are all free to express our opinion about guitar topics, as long as we don't break the rules.

If you don't like what I have written, then don't comment, and move on

time to get off your high horse kid


I've reported you because all you've done here is re-post the thread you made before, that was locked, under a different title.

And trying to demean me by calling me "kid" when I'm willing to bet you know somewhere between nothing and almost nothing about me won't work. You can probably tell my name and age, maybe what guitars I own... but very little else.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
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#18
If you want to improve on guitar you need to do two things:

1) Spend more time playing guitar than talking about it
2) Don't make up excuses that put arbitrary limits on your abilities

The only way to really open up your playing is to dispense with the assumption that you are limited. Assume you are not limited. Seriously - assume that anything another person can do, you can too, if only you are willing to pursue it.

So far as I can tell, the biggest difference between people who get really good and those who flounder is the willingness to just sit down and get shit done. Relentless concentration and desire to achieve. Once you decide that you can and will do something difficult, you'll be surprise how quickly you improve.
#19
Quote by cdgraves

The only way to really open up your playing is to dispense with the assumption that you are limited. Assume you are not limited. Seriously - assume that anything another person can do, you can too, if only you are willing to pursue it.


Agreed.

I actually have some sympathy for the natural talent argument (to clarify, as I said in the first thread, that doesn't mean I think talent is the only important thing, or that talent and practice are mutually exclusive or anything like that), and I also have some sympathy for the "pro guitarists might lie" argument as well (look at all the things EVH has said over the years about his gear).

But all that notwithstanding, if you think you're limited, that risks becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy.

That's not to say you should lie to yourself or anything like that. But until proven otherwise, assume you have no limits and give it a (genuine) shot. After a while if you're still not getting anywhere, then either change teachers or your approach (or both).

If it still doesn't work after you've given it a genuine shot, you can either keep playing and not worry about it if you still enjoy playing (by having given it a genuine shot you're probably far better than you would otherwise have been) or quit if you're really not enjoying it and feel like you're wasting your time (since life is too short to do stuff you don't enjoy).

That would be my approach. I wanted to be the best guitar player in the world when I started out (yeah, I know ). Am I? Nope. Don't much care, I still enjoy it and I'm far better than I would have been (probably- citation needed ) had I gone into it thinking I was never going to be any good.
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#20
Aaaaaand this is done. We don't need a repeat of the last thread.
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