#1
So I have memorized and beaten to death these scales. I have practiced them over a backing track and kept timing just fine. I'm unsure of what to do next. How do I take these few notes and create a melodic solo? Are there any solos using this scale that I should use to get ideas? I'm not sure whether I just need to learn other peoples solos and wait for the time to come, or dive head first into theory and start now.
#2
Learn some solos: BB King, Hendrix, David Gilmour

Learn some theory.

Don't just play pentatonic scales.
#3
In order to effectively use those five notes, you need to approach them from other (often non-pentatonic scale) notes that sound correct WITHIN THE CONTEXT OF WHATEVER YOU ARE PLAYING OVER, be it chords, a second melody, whatever.

So, that flattened third, for example: for the piece of music you're soloing over, does it sound cool to slide up to that from the second? How about fretting the major third, then pulling off to it?
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#5
learn a bunch of classic solos and also blues licks (whole lotta love by led zep is pretty good)

then pretty much rip them off shamelessly

that's what i do
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#6
Ideally, think of what you want your solo to sound like and transfer the sounds you hear to the guitar

Or just as ideally, rip off Sabbath and Zeppelin like everyone else
#7
Blatantly steal as much as you can from all the great pentatonic guitarists and then make it your own.

“If you steal from one person it is theft, and if you steal from lots of people it is research”
-Guthrie Govan
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#8
^ Yeah Considering everyone will have slightly different influences even if you copy stuff pat, you should still sound more or less unique since you're probably copying from different players than everyone else. Basically if you're going to copy, just make sure you don't copy from one or two players.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
Quote by Fret Frier
So I have memorized and beaten to death these scales. I have practiced them over a backing track and kept timing just fine. I'm unsure of what to do next. How do I take these few notes and create a melodic solo? Are there any solos using this scale that I should use to get ideas? I'm not sure whether I just need to learn other peoples solos and wait for the time to come, or dive head first into theory and start now.


A very common mistake for guitarists is to learn a scale pattern and then go straight to "improvising" over a backing track. It's kinda like learning the alphabet and then expecting to be Shakespeare, without ever heaving read a book..

Quote by Dave_Mc
learn a bunch of classic solos and also blues licks (whole lotta love by led zep is pretty good)




Definitely learn some solos. Take in the sounds, develop techniques, get inspired.

I don't consider it "stealing" though, I'd say it's a way of learning the language. In time, with enough experience, you can develop your own voice while speaking that language.
It's like we all are communicating in English, so we use some of the same words and phrases, but we are still individuals in what we say with it, and how we say it.

Of-course some people do steal in the sense that they just regurgitate things that they heard someone else say, but that shouldn't hold you back from learning the language. You can be your own person if you choose to.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 27, 2014,
#10
Yeah, agreed. I mean I learnt tons of songs and solos before I ever even realised you had to learn scale patterns. I actually pretty much came up with the minor pentatonic position 1 by myself since it came up so much in classic and hard rock solos
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
learn a bunch of classic solos and also blues licks (whole lotta love by led zep is pretty good)

then pretty much rip them off shamelessly

that's what i do

Stealing from the masters....? Shame on you.

You wouldn't see Zeppelin do that.

Oh...hang on....

Quote by AlanHB
It's the same as all other harmony. Surround yourself with skulls and candles if it helps.
#12
Quote by 91RG350
You wouldn't see Zeppelin do that.

Oh...hang on....


John renbourn
#13
Figure out which notes in the scale correspond to the notes of the chord you're currently playing over - which of course changes constantly as the progression cycles through. You'll notice that when you play a scale tone that corresponds to a note in the chord, it sounds great - those are the notes you want to end your phrases on. Just fool around with that for a while and you'll eventually develop an ear for it; then you can play really beautiful melodic stuff that fits the song perfectly.
#14
Quote by 91RG350
Stealing from the masters....? Shame on you.

You wouldn't see Zeppelin do that.

Oh...hang on....



LOL
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#16
Your long-term goal is to completely internalize the sound of the scale, so that you know exactly what every note is going to sound like before you play it.

Good things to help you with this are to learn solos by ear, to sing licks and then play them, and to do ear training exercises (interval recognition, the functional ear trainer, etc).

Then, once you have that down, start with a melody. Just play the melody until you're comfortable with it and can play it without thinking too much.

THen start to embellish it and expand on it.
#17
one thing about the minor pentatonic scale....I wouldnt even think of it like a "scale." If you think of it simply as a scale then u might be tempted to just run it up and down like you were practicing a 3 octave major scale to a metronome.

The minor pentatonic "box" isnt generally used like that. It fits under the fingers so well that it really lends itself to expression and manipulation by string bending and vibrato etc. Joe Satriani has a lesson on utube where he calls that "pushing and pulling." So dont think of it as a "scale" to be played up and down

if u watch Johnny Winter or Hendrix or BB King play u see that they could get a lot from the box position without ever really moving their hand around that much...they could stay on just a few notes and got a lot of sounds from just bending and vibrato etc.
#18
^ Agreed.

A few of the "classic" stock blues/rock licks sort of go up and/or down the entire shape, but yeah in general I would agree.

I suppose you could argue that with any scale you shouldn't just be running up and down it mindlessly.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#19
Quote by JohnProphet
one thing about the minor pentatonic scale....I wouldnt even think of it like a "scale." If you think of it simply as a scale then u might be tempted to just run it up and down like you were practicing a 3 octave major scale to a metronome.

The minor pentatonic "box" isnt generally used like that. It fits under the fingers so well that it really lends itself to expression and manipulation by string bending and vibrato etc. Joe Satriani has a lesson on utube where he calls that "pushing and pulling." So dont think of it as a "scale" to be played up and down

if u watch Johnny Winter or Hendrix or BB King play u see that they could get a lot from the box position without ever really moving their hand around that much...they could stay on just a few notes and got a lot of sounds from just bending and vibrato etc.


well, scales are linear. You can go up or you can go down. It don't see any reason to think of the minor pentatonic scale as anything other than what it is….. a scale.

Knowing it's a scale shouldn't make you think that your limited to going up and down. Just use music as a reference point, rather than some exercise you find online or in a guitar magazine. That's where the mindless running of scales comes from. People search for things to "make them better", and what they are often presented with is scale exercises, minus the context of actual music.
Last edited by GuitarMunky at Jul 30, 2014,
#20
Quote by Fret Frier
So I have memorized and beaten to death these scales. I have practiced them over a backing track and kept timing just fine. I'm unsure of what to do next. How do I take these few notes and create a melodic solo? Are there any solos using this scale that I should use to get ideas? I'm not sure whether I just need to learn other peoples solos and wait for the time to come, or dive head first into theory and start now.

There's a lot of good replies from people here so do yourself a favour and immerse yourself in it. Headfirst.

Other than that, just remember that a backing track in no way allows you to learn to solo as those things are over 3 minutes - and that makes it pointless in learning to solo because that is pure overkill. Limit yourself to a small section of a song and repeat ad infinitum till you are happy that you understand the concept and that you can feel confident in delivering said soloing exercise to a listener.

A lot of people say learn a solo from X player... thats cool n all but I chose a different path than playing other peoples stuff. I still learnt from them but never played it - just listened to how they executed certain things and tried to follow their train of thought rather than learning it note for note. Its an approach nonetheless with its own results... you may be happy with it or not. Use what you want to though.

Theory won't really help you to solo - it gives you the notes to play (or rather the "possible" notes which turns out to be all 12) but it does not help you in playing them. Soloing uses knowledge and feel. Rubato plays a part, a big part - unless robotic is your thing then hey, go for it. A few more things but its not necessary for this post.

Hope you found something useful... good luck (and no, I cannot give you your missed life back after reading my post)
#21
To add to what Evo said, speaking personally...listen to anything he suggests, because he is a fantastic guitarist with a very keen sense of melody and making things very interesting. If most players could end up even half of what he is, that will be noteworthy. Listen to his stuff if you don't believe me.

By far Evo is my favorite UG guitarist and personal friend of many years now.

Best,

Sean
#22
Here's my advice. First you may want to learn some techniques/embellishments like various vibratos, subtle bends (these produce a lovely 1/4 tone effect I think), HOPOs (Hammer-Ons and Pull-Offs), slides, and triplets. You may want to learn G Major and D Major as well (those are my favorite major scales). Learning how to use the arpeggios of the chord progression (maybe even embellish it by going to more complex versions of the chords) or perhaps some exotic scales can be helpful. Of course you'll want to learn those minor scales as they're versatile and I can't stress that enough. You can also simply mix some of the riffs with your scale of choice (as long as it's in key) and it should sound good.

Learning what a rubato is can be useful as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tempo_rubato

Hope I helped and have a nice day.
"I don't know what you're trying to suggest. There's no shame in taking what you need to hold your position!"

Super Buu (DBZ) on assimilation (it could also apply to blues guitar and guitar soloing in general).
#23
When you practice your scales sing them as you do it. You'll find it much easier to learn licks and create your own licks this way.
#24
B.B King licks are good to start with IMO for beginner solo'n...

It's important to develop enough technique to at least make ONE or two notes sound good first. This is a very good video about learning solo'n...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bovmfJ--Ed8&list=PLHcpexhUzpzchl6gCaipdZr5Qojh144ce

The hardest part about beginner solo'n isn't scales AT ALL (other than the fast stuff and technique) is the rhythmic elements and melodic nature rather than what notes to play. You can usually noodle around the fretboard and know what note to play just from hitting it over a backing track, you'll know what sounds right or wrong. You don't really need scales to solo at first other than box shapes, the later scales come in handy once you are more advanced in needing fillers.

The bigger problem is rythmic melody, that is where most guitarists lack. That is what makes guitarists like Govan stand out, his melodic fusion of multiple styles.
Last edited by coderguy at Aug 7, 2014,
#25
I don't think people round here much like tom hess, but I agree with the principle of that. If you're a good player you can make even simple stuff sound good (and conversely, as I've said before, a poor player can make even sophisticated stuff sound bad).

BB King might be more major pentatonic than minor, though? Not certain about that, I only have a passing familiarity with his stuff. But yeah he has good phrasing etc. and is a good example of making simple stuff sound great, so would definitely be worth looking into.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#27
For practice, try using different A minor pentatonic scale positions to solo over this mp3 of the blues in A. Then, try using the A major pentatonic scale positions to solo over the same audio recording, and note the difference in sound.Experimentation and practice are the key here. Spend lots of time learning this.
Last edited by richardsnelson at Aug 25, 2014,