#1
TDPRI says pre 1974 is vintage. seems older to me.

in the auto world, usually pre 1981

but you hear people say that its 20 years, or 25 years.

i saw an ad that a 1991 or so was considered vintage. over 20 years

the US gives collector plates to 25 year old and longer on a car.

i don't mean to be referring to a car so much, but its just a frame of reference.

is it a condition factor?

is it all just subjective.

just curious
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#2
Pre JCM800.
If it's got a preamp gain knob, it aint vintage.
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#3
Id say it was largely subjective. There are some things regarding vintage we can all agree on. Im sure we'd all agree something from 2001 is NOT vintage whereas something from 1960 IS.

Where it starts to get tricky is that grey area in the middle, say 1975-1985 (my opinion).

Its a bit of a misnomer anyway as, if vintage is purely referring to somethings age, every piece of gear will eventually become vintage. Hell, i could bury a shitty old mug in the desert. If it was then discovered in 3000 years time it might be considered a priceless artifact.

I think a more important question is, does it really matter? Just buy what you like the feel, look and sound of. Leave the cork sniffers who "only buy vintage gear" to sweat over what is a completely arbitrary definition.
#4
Just like Christianity had the birth of Jesus, inhabitants of the guitar world had the arrival of THE KLON; the physical incarnation of God, born of the virgin mojo, to return the people of Earth's faith in creamy toanz.

Lord Klon quickly rose to fame among its early disciples, but was ridiculed and tormented by followers of the realism faith.

These rational thinkers could not comprehend Klon's heavenly qualities, and they swiftly put Klon before a jury of the wise-men of forumisia. The elsuive Klon was nailed to a breadboard, probed and analized in attempt to transfer the magical power of Toan to Earthlings.

Klon became extinct, and ascended to heaven[ly status]. Thus the birth of Klon marks the end of the vintage testament of Gearism.
Last edited by 7thString at Jul 30, 2014,
#5
It greatly depends on the stuff you're looking at.

Here's wikipedia's take on the matter, where it redirected me to antique:
"An antique (Latin: antiquus; "old", "ancient") is an old collectable item. It is collected or desirable because of its age, beauty, rarity, condition, utility, personal emotional connection, and/or other unique features. It is an object that represents a previous era or time period in human society.

It is common practice to define "antique" as applying to objects at least 100 years old."

And I kinda agree with it.

In my opinion, if we want to look at stuff from a relative perspective, pre-fender guitar amps are vintage, and if we want to look at stuff from a more "absolute" perspective, guitar amps and electric guitars aren't vintage at all.

Also
Quote by 7thString
These rational thinkers could not comprehend Klon's heavenly qualities, and they swiftly put Klon before a jury of the wise-men of forumisia. The elsuive Klon was nailed to a breadboard, probed and analized in attempt to transfer the magical power of Toan to Earthlings.
Name's Luca.

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Last edited by Spambot_2 at Jul 30, 2014,
#6
I always thought over 25 years could be considered "vintage".
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#7
almost worthless buzz word at this point. it's also very relative. a 1991 PRS is vintage in terms of PRS guitars but for a LP or strat not so much. I could never say a 1980s car was vintage with a straight face but being "vintage" myself may have a lot to do with that.
#8
I say IMO pre 1980 is vintage, but I have seen '91/'92 considered vintage by some.
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#9
With cars it's different because the working term there is classic, which I believe applies to anything 20 or 25 years old. That doesn't make them any more collectible, though.

With gear, I think it's more about what's predominant NOW, like, it vintage if it represents an era of music that is no longer going on. I could see an argument for stuff from the 90s because that was a particular era of music that had a sound, and now that isn't the predominant sound anymore. I would consider a JCM800 vintage, especially 2203/2204 models, even if Cath doesn't agree. It really is just a buzz word, but I think most importantly there has to be some value associated with it. For example, I don't care what people think about old Silvertone amps, I don't think they are vintage, they are just old ****ing amps. Same goes with all those god-awful early 70s Japanese guitars. Sometimes, shit is just old.
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#10
It also depends on use of the word "vintage". A bottle of wine can have a vintage of 2014.

With guitars, Vintage means this:
http://www.gear4music.com/Electric_Guitars/Vintage_Electric.html

Any definition of a vintage guitar is subjective, but means something very different to a Vintage guitar.

Therefore anytime someone asks about purchasing a V/vintage guitar, answers should be dependent upon the use of an upper or lower case 'v'.
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#11
Quote by 7thString
Just like Christianity had the birth of Jesus, inhabitants of the guitar world had the arrival of THE JTM45 .



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#12
For me personally "vintage" in the context of musical gear is not only age dependent, but quality/desirability dependent. Some stuff is never vintage, it's just old crap.

"Vintage", "Antique", "Classic", these all imply some level of desirability in addition to the age.

Pressed-wood Ikea furniture will never be 'antique', the Plymouth Reliant K will never be a classic and most Kay guitars will still be a piece of shit, I don't care who plays them...
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#13
Anything new that Cathbard bought as a teen.

Or alternatively, to me everything pre-1980 could be considered vintage, but I have to agree that it depends on the age of the brand itself. I'd say that a 90's PRS is a vintage at this point.
#14
I started gigging the year that the JCM800 was first released.
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#16
Back then I was a broke arse. I do have my first gigging amp though. A Yamaha G100-II 212. Served me well. I never use it but I can't part with it. It still works. I had to replace the power transistors once but it still works to this day. Well, the speakers aren't original, I blew those up long ago.
I've still got my Ibanez Blazer I bought in '81. It's beat to death and really needs the fingerboard recapped, it's so worn out. I still play it at times, needs new frets. I've turned it into my backup slide guitar. So it's getting dragged to all my gigs again. I haven't had to use it, rare to break strings playing slide, but it's there on the stage with me. Like a faithful old dog.
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#17
Quote by bluestratplayer
Fixed
The JTM45 was hardly an innovation.
The first JTM45 was a rebranded bassman, and the later ones were reworkings of that.

The klon had a much bigger impact on culture if ya ask me.
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#18
It was never a rebranded Bassman. It was the same circuit built with locally sourced parts and a different tube in V1. But the Bassman was just circuits taken from RCA anyway if you wanna start going down that route.
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#19
This is the best definition I have found for vintage guitars and most amps:
http://home.provide.net/~cfh/vintage.html

It is a heavily overused and diluted term.
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#20
Quote by Spambot_2
The JTM45 was hardly an innovation.
The first JTM45 was a rebranded bassman, and the later ones were reworkings of that.

The klon had a much bigger impact on culture if ya ask me.


Yeah, an overpriced pedal was a real trendsetter...

If you wanted to use a pedal as an example, the venerable tubescreamer would have been a vastly better choice than the klon. There are very few pedalboards that don't have some variation of a tubescreamer, and very few pedalboards that DO have a klon or klone, at least in comparison.
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Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 30, 2014,
#21
there is not much meaning to be gleaned from the term vintage. it's a buzz word, and i use it as such. i use it to vaguely mean "old and valuable", though many of the pieces i use the term vintage for aren't really that valuable. like those old valco amps i make NGD's for, not really that valuable in a monetary sense.
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#22
Quote by Linkerman
I always thought over 25 years could be considered "vintage".


Whatever you like.

As another poster stated, it's a useless buzzword at this point.

In theory, what distinguishes "vintage" from simply "old" is some innate value coupled with some added value (usually ephemeral) attributable to its particular age. An old Yugo is crusher bait unless someone wants to offer you money for it. The same year 289 Mustang is "Whoa, dude! Vintage!"

I'd hardly figure that 25 years designates "vintage" among guitars (I've got socks that old). But if you're a vintage dealer, or if you've got some shiny-eyed under-25 buyer jumping up and down waving cash at you, then yes, it's vintage. Absoflippinlutely.

Until the Boomer generation came along, old guitars were old guitars. When Boomers with money started hunting down old LPs for no real reason other than their guitar gods played them, vintage was born. Vintage is likely to die with the Boomers as well, and the vintage guitar market is already beginning to feel the hit of 12,000 Boomers retiring each day. Two factors: hoarded guitars are beginning to hit the market, and the big money to make purchases is being converted to retirement income. Old guitars are slowly returning to being just old guitars.
#23
Quote by dspellman
(I've got socks that old).


I've used that line...

I think the first time I heard it was in the Burt Reynolds movie "Malone". Thought it was funny and appropriated it!

And I pretty much agree with the rest as well.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
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Last edited by Arby911 at Jul 30, 2014,
#24
It's all just bollocks really. Anybody can pick some arbitrary date or event or whatever the **** they want and run with it, like I did there.
It's bollocks, all the bollocks and nothing but the bollocks.

TLDR:
Bollocks.
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#25
Quote by Cathbard
It's all just bollocks really. Anybody can pick some arbitrary date or event or whatever the **** they want and run with it, like I did there.
It's bollocks, all the bollocks and nothing but the bollocks.

TLDR:
Bollocks.


can't bollocks mean bad or good? and it also means testicles right?

i think the word bollocks is vintage
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

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#26
Vintage is kinda just another word for old but its slightly different too. It has its uses, ie; I have a '65 reissue mustang, I do not have a vintage '65 mustang. And some of us have twisted it into vintage= "its old but still in good shape and works fine"

Actually thats exactly how I take the word "vintage", Its just a shorter way of saying "its old but in good condition and works well". Obviously others vary, but when I say it, thats what I mean.

Words evolve ya' know.
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#27
I think "vintage" is a subjective term. Different people consider different things vintage. Some people base it on the age of the item, some people base it on the age of the company, some people base it on a certain date, etc.

For a reference, I know that Fender considers anything pre-1985 to be "vintage".
#28
Quote by 7thString
Just like Christianity had the birth of Jesus, inhabitants of the guitar world had the arrival of THE KLON; the physical incarnation of God, born of the virgin mojo, to return the people of Earth's faith in creamy toanz.

Lord Klon quickly rose to fame among its early disciples, but was ridiculed and tormented by followers of the realism faith.

These rational thinkers could not comprehend Klon's heavenly qualities, and they swiftly put Klon before a jury of the wise-men of forumisia. The elsuive Klon was nailed to a breadboard, probed and analized in attempt to transfer the magical power of Toan to Earthlings.

Klon became extinct, and ascended to heaven[ly status]. Thus the birth of Klon marks the end of the vintage testament of Gearism.


LOL

Quote by Linkerman
I always thought over 25 years could be considered "vintage".


Yeah I heard 25 too but I dunno if that's true or not. I looked up wikipedia the other day to see if I could find any corroboration for that, and I couldn't.
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#30
Quote by gumbilicious
can't bollocks mean bad or good? and it also means testicles right?

i think the word bollocks is vintage
It never means good. Yeah, testicles is the stem (although Sex Pistols argued otherwise in court) but in this and most contexts it just means bullshit.
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#32
Quote by Arby911
Yeah, an overpriced pedal was a real trendsetter...

If you wanted to use a pedal as an example, the venerable tubescreamer would have been a vastly better choice than the klon. There are very few pedalboards that don't have some variation of a tubescreamer, and very few pedalboards that DO have a klon or klone, at least in comparison.

yeah I was kidding
Klon was more like the beginning of the end... Lets not let this dissolve into a klon argument thread.

IMO vintage is useful in discerning between originals and reissues, ie tube screamers, fuzz faces, plexis, wahs etc where often the exact year of production may not be known, thus the term vintage is sufficient to imply 'not the reissue version'. A '59 bassman is just a '59 bassman, if the year is known then the subjective use of the word 'vintage' is unnecessary. The fact remains that slapping the word vintage on your ebay ad will undoubtedly attract more attention because of the chemicals is causes our brains to automatically release!
#33
interesting. i am surprised that there is such a difference of opinion.

i think if i were to say it would be GENERALLY 25 years. with other considerations on an individual basis.

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Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#34
i generally associate vintage with quality more than age, considering something vintage if you can say "they don't make them like this any more" about it.

that's a lot more liberal than most people on here, but it makes practical sense because "vintage" with respect to guitars, amps, etc. denotes something that has an augmented value because of the era it was produced in.

that said i generally would never associate anything made within the past decade or so "vintage"
#35
Quote by 7thString
yeah I was kidding
Klon was more like the beginning of the end... Lets not let this dissolve into a klon argument thread.


That quote wasn't meant toward you. I believe it was pointed toward the guy that said the KLON had a bigger impact than the JTM45. I made a joke implying a "fix" to your quote with a JTM45 as a bigger impact toward music and the "archetype" of most music when someone replyed differently. With respect toward opinion I believe based on a pedal impacting music it would be hard to argue against the tube screamer over any other pedal. TS pedals are used constantly in so many different genres, I don't see how anyone could think a Klon influenced the pedal market more. Doesn't matter which you think is better, just look back and see which is the "go to" pedal. If one were given to me, which would I choose? a Klon, still would say a tube screamer influence trumps the Klon's influence.
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#36
Quote by Cathbard
It never means good. Yeah, testicles is the stem (although Sex Pistols argued otherwise in court) but in this and most contexts it just means bullshit.

Don't know how international this is, but in the UK the phrase "the dogs bollocks" means the best possible. This often just gets shortened to "the bollocks", so the word can sometimes be a good thing.

In other cases it means bullshit though, depends on the context.
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