#1
Been adoring the brutal crushing from my Randall RG 1503 (Metal, obviously). But when it comes to a good tone, it just doesn't cut it, and I want more.
I know that Kerry King for example uses two of the exact same head at the same time when playing live. Getting louder, is not my purpose. My purpose is to achieve.. The beautiful high gain tones of a full tube Marshall, Engl, EVH (for example), and the brutal lows from the all Solid State Randall RG 1503.

I don't own any tube amp, but I have played several different, and these particular amps rocks my socks off, but I don't want to leave the love of Solid States behind. So, what if I played my Randall in one cab, and a JCM 800 in another cab on-top of each other?
What I know is that the hybrid amps tend to sound like shit. I don't want one Tube pre amp and one Solid State power amp. I want two of each. There are also multiple switch pedals to choose from but I'll find one.

Anyone of you running something like this? Do you have any experience in this utter madness?
Thx
#2
Quote by TobeyShreddz
The beautiful high gain tones of a full tube Marshall, Engl, EVH (for example), and the brutal lows from the all Solid State Randall RG 1503.
What you're hearing is not the sound of tubes nor the sound of transistors, it's the sound of how these amps are designed.

What you want is an amp that sounds better than yours.

Judging from your description you may wanna try an ENGL Powerball II, maybe a Splawn Quick Rod.
Quote by TobeyShreddz
I don't own any tube amp, but I have played several different, and these particular amps rocks my socks off, but I don't want to leave the love of Solid States behind.
Why?
I get it sounds good to you, but the point would be finding something that sounds better, and there's nothing transistors can do that tubes can't when it comes to this field.
Quote by TobeyShreddz
So, what if I played my Randall in one cab, and a JCM 800 in another cab on-top of each other?
You could, or you could even use the same cab if it's wired in the right way.
If it's not you could just re-wire it the right way.
Quote by TobeyShreddz
What I know is that the hybrid amps tend to sound like shit.
Now this is like saying "all solid state amp sucks".
All hybrid amps sucks?
Have a listen to a Rogue Sphynx - tube pre and class D power amp.

Again, what makes the difference is the design, not the technology used.
Each and every amp may sound good or bad, whatever there's inside them.
Quote by TobeyShreddz
I don't want one Tube pre amp and one Solid State power amp. I want two of each.
This would also be hella unconvenient.
Quote by TobeyShreddz
There are also multiple switch pedals to choose from but I'll find one.
Switch from what to what else?
Quote by TobeyShreddz
Anyone of you running something like this? Do you have any experience in this utter madness?
People run two amps live to sound fuller, and while this might work I reckon you'd be better off with a better amp altogether.

Or a rack setup - one solid state pre, say a tech21, one tube pre, like the Peavey rockmaster or however that was called (or an e530), and a stereo power amp, be it tube or solid state - respectively a carvin TS100 or a Yamaha P2500S.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
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#3
Idk what your budget looks like but if you want the best of these world's, look into the Kemper profiling amp. Basically, you can steal guitar tones from any amp you mic up. Don't have a mic? You can download other people's profiles from online. This thing is spot on. However I hear that the guitar, pickups, cab, overdrive (if you're running one while profiling) can all effect the end result of the tone you achieve. There are plenty of YouTube videos about it, but check it out!
#4
It should be possible. Hetfield for example, before his current journey with AxeFX, had Mesa and Diezel and the guitar signal was split into two: one amp played the low end and one played the high end. How this is done I have no idea but there is a Youtube video explaining Hetfields rig if you are interested.

And I know what you mean about RG1503. If you are trying to make it sound like Peavey with nice and chunky midrange chug you will fail. Randall has its own dirty and gritty sound, with a thunderous low end.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#5
It would be possible, i run my old vox valvetronox vt40+ together with my other amp that has tubes for a fuller sound and stereo effects. You may need to tweak the sound a bit, you don't want it to interfere with each other and especially with high gain tube heads like the jcm800 it gets loud real quick.
#6
Quote by MaaZeus
It should be possible. Hetfield for example, before his current journey with AxeFX, had Mesa and Diezel and the guitar signal was split into two: one amp played the low end and one played the high end. How this is done I have no idea but there is a Youtube video explaining Hetfields rig if you are interested.

And I know what you mean about RG1503. If you are trying to make it sound like Peavey with nice and chunky midrange chug you will fail. Randall has its own dirty and gritty sound, with a thunderous low end.

That's what I'm talking about, the only thing that the RG actually blows me away on is it's low end. And it's fantastic. It's clean is also surprisingly good! With help of a little reverb, delay, chorus etc I will have got the clean of my dreams.

I'm very interested in something like Hetfield has. Do you have a link to this video? And since I'm not very intelligent when it comes to amplifiers and such.. Low end and high end are other words for higher resp lower frequencies right? Because if that's the case, that's exactly what I want to happen with my rig.
#7
Axe FX or Kemper is your best option
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Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#8
Quote by oneblackened
Axe FX or Kemper is your best option

Unfortunately, I'm not looking for any modelling amps to do the job for me.
#9
get a splawn quickrod and a mesa dual/triple rec. get some kind of cross over (maybe just an EQ).

just keep in mind that its not a simple to set up and tear down. studio is different situation.
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#10
Quote by TobeyShreddz
That's what I'm talking about, the only thing that the RG actually blows me away on is it's low end. And it's fantastic. It's clean is also surprisingly good! With help of a little reverb, delay, chorus etc I will have got the clean of my dreams.

I'm very interested in something like Hetfield has. Do you have a link to this video? And since I'm not very intelligent when it comes to amplifiers and such.. Low end and high end are other words for higher resp lower frequencies right? Because if that's the case, that's exactly what I want to happen with my rig.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdidWLkd7TI


I remember the details a little bit wrong. Both amps still play the same frequencies but one amp does one thing better than the other and he simply mixes them together. I have never done this stuff before but I think all you should really need to get started is either two cabs (one for each amp) or a stereo cab and a signal splitter to feed both amps with the same guitar sound and then its just a matter of toying a lot with a volume and EQ until you are happy with the results.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#11
And now he just uses an Axe for it all.
Current Gear:
LTD MH-400 with Gotoh GE1996T (EMG 85/60)
PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
Squier Vintage Modified 70s Jazz V
Audient iD22 interface
Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#13
Two separate power amps and one pre?

A power amp doesn't color the sound anywhere as much as every other element in a chain.
Cables have a bigger effect unless the power amp is the kind you find in guitar amps, and even there it makes pretty little difference.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#14
Quote by TobeyShreddz
Unfortunately, I'm not looking for any modelling amps to do the job for me.


Too bad.

Both the Pod X3 and the HD will allow you to run two separate rigs. Pan one full right, one left and then run the outputs wherever you like (I used a stereo 50W/50W tube power amp for a while that would allow me to run 6L6s on one channel and EL34s on the other.

You can also set up separate user presets to allow you to use just one of the rigs at a time, so that you can switch from clean to dirty to both (with the pair EQ'd just the way you like them.

Modeling aside, if you're looking for one rig to have a lot of solid bottom end, check out the ISP Technologies Vector SL. This is a subwoofer that fits under a 4x12. You feed the speaker output from your tube amp into the electronics on the sub, and they peel off the lows and feed them to a 600W solid state power amp and from there to a 15" subwoofer inside its own closed-back ported cabinet. The rest of the speaker output (mids and up) goes to your 4x12. Steve Lukather helped design the setup with ISP.
#15
Quote by MaaZeus
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdidWLkd7TI


I remember the details a little bit wrong. Both amps still play the same frequencies but one amp does one thing better than the other and he simply mixes them together. I have never done this stuff before but I think all you should really need to get started is either two cabs (one for each amp) or a stereo cab and a signal splitter to feed both amps with the same guitar sound and then its just a matter of toying a lot with a volume and EQ until you are happy with the results.

Well then, to make it happen, all I need is cash! Which I don't have
And choose an amp that will do the job. It will be kind of hard for me to find an amp that actually goes well with my Randall as well. I guess I'll be looking for someone that sounds really good on a little higher mids. The Peavey 6505 is CHEAP, and will probably be a good start. And I should be able to get it sold for the same price I buy it for if i get it second hand.
#17
I'm still not getting why in the world he would use two different power amps.

Mind making that point clear please?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#18
Tube & solid state but I guess with the Axe or Kemper he can probably differentiate enough.

I am still not sure why he'd run two amp in parallel while probably single higher quality head will do...my impression is just that his tone is not harmoniocally rich enough or maybe he is comparing against sounds produced on records.
Last edited by diabolical at Aug 1, 2014,
#19
Quote by diabolical
Tube & solid state
That's gonna make very little to no difference y' know.
Most likely, no difference.
Quote by diabolical
I am still not sure why he'd run two amp in parallel while probably single higher quality head will do...
He likes the lows of an amp and the highs of another, so put together they would get him the perfect sound, ideally.

I though agree with you a single, better sounding amp would be more convenient and possibly even better sounding.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#20
Quote by Spambot_2
That's gonna make very little to no difference y' know.
Most likely, no difference.


Actually huge difference, I've been through this in my own rig, swapped out a ss power amp for a tube power amp in my modular rig and the sound came alive in a huge way.
#21
Chances are you were using a fairly poor power amp on the tracks of the rocktron velocity.
Or whatever power amp that was either less than average quality or designed for guitar stuff.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#23
What amp were you using, what did you switch to and what's your current rig, just out of curiosity?

'cause I've never heard whatever tube power amp sound flatter, clearer nor plain better than a good quality transistor power amp.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#24
Didn't say I wanted a flat sounding power amp. I used one of the Peavey big block power amps, don't remember which one but it was considered quite rugged, neutral and good sounding by all, it was a PA staple for years. Then tried buddy's QSC power amp and a Alesis RA something and they sounded flat and wanting, honestly the PSA-1 sounds better direct than through power amp for some reason. I wouldn't blame the PSA-1 either as I have an ADA MP-1 which sounded just as lifeless through these amps. After trying a Mesa 50:50 which I couldn't afford, I bought a Peavey 50/50 Classic (tube power amp ripping off the Mesa at 1/4 of the cost at the time) and put it in bridge mode, awesome power amp grind for high gain tones, sounded vibrant on clean, totally opened up my whole rig. Then after that I got a 50 watt Marshall JCM900 which I use as power amp through the fx return, cranked on 10 it is even sweeter than the Peavey. For high gain tones it definitely helps when you push tube power and get it to distort. I can definitely hear the difference. With the Marshall especially the magic happens after you hit the 7 and the windows start to rattle, the sound molecules in the room "excite"
I used a Sansamp PSA-1 preamp into a floor pedal configuration, some in the p[re and some in the loop of the PSA. Love that preamp, I feel it blows a lot of the newer stuff out of the water, sounds a lot more natural to me than the Axe. My 2c.
#25
Does using an "external" pre amp/power amp replace the existing one in the amp? I mean as long as it is connected to the amp.
#26
Used Line 6 Vetta it will run 2 amp sims at the same time and has its own stereo power amp. Sounds pretty good also
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2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#27
^ probably the most convenient idea. A two amp rig was a nightmare for me live. I actually did nearly the same thing you want to do: I had a SS Randall RH200 and a Peavey 6505+ 112 that sounded great together. Every gig I had to set both up, get the mic placement just right... Once I added in the other guitarist and the bass player into the mix though you pretty much couldn't hear any benefit from the two amp rig.

Lot easier to find one amp that does what you want.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#28
Quote by dementiacaptain
^ probably the most convenient idea. A two amp rig was a nightmare for me live. I actually did nearly the same thing you want to do: I had a SS Randall RH200 and a Peavey 6505+ 112 that sounded great together. Every gig I had to set both up, get the mic placement just right... Once I added in the other guitarist and the bass player into the mix though you pretty much couldn't hear any benefit from the two amp rig.

Lot easier to find one amp that does what you want.

I want to start looking for a sound I want to roll with in the future, and if this turns out to be my dream rig, why not give it a shot!

I ended up deciding to get a Bugera 6260/6262, which people tell me is an exact copy of the two Peavey bro's 6505/6505+. And for about half the price as well. Since I'm not out gigging at the moment, they just need to sit at my jamming place.

How would you connect FX pedals? (Excluding pedal loop section offcourse) Guitar > Pedals > Guitar split > Amps? I Guess there's gonna be a few pedals I'll have to get 2 of, including pedal loop. What pedals did you use?
#29
If you want a 5150, get a used combo and not a Bugera. It is 1/2 the price because it is a POS build wise.

You can get a used Peavey 6505+ 1x12 combo for $350 and you can get a used 5150/6505 2x12 combo for $550
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#30
^^ hey if you want to try, go for it. You have the right idea with pedals, you might could rig up something crazy with several splitter pedals so you don't have to buy more than one pedal for the loops, but it could get hairy. Otherwise, guitar>pedals>ABY (splitter) into the front of the amp.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#31
Quote by TobeyShreddz
Does using an "external" pre amp/power amp replace the existing one in the amp? I mean as long as it is connected to the amp.

I guess you could get extra coloration with second Poweramp coming out of you head with the line out.

BTW, using delay on one amp only might be a good thing, you can be more aggressive on the delay and retain clarity.

To answer your question- it depends. If you run into fx return, you're connecting straight into the Poweramp, so yes. If you put the preamp into the guitar input in front you're not bypassing the preamp.
Last edited by diabolical at Aug 3, 2014,