#1
At some point I plan on getting a tube amp, and am confused. I would like one that can hold up in a band, and sound decent at lower volumes... Is that possible? How many watts are necessary? Also is it better to buy a head&cab, or a combo? I have already decided that if I went with head/cab, I would get a 4x12 celestial speaker. If I bought a head, how many watts should it be? I don't play metal but I Love Rock N Blues.
#2
15w tube Tiny Terror or Blues Jr will get it done. Both sound great for Classic Rock and Blues.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#3
I have heard good things about both of those. right now I have a 20 watt mustang modeling amp. Do the blues jr and tiny terror need cabs for them to cut through?
#4
Y'know, I almost made this thread.

As I help you get your question answered, I'll add in mine. It depends if how clean you want your tone to be. The fewer the watts, the more easily the clean tone breaks into distortion as you increase the volume.

My question to everyone is: How few watts is too few if you want to maintain a clean tone? I have a 100 and a 60 watt amp, and those do the job, but as I look for more amps to expand my collection, I find amps that are only within my price range if I were to buy the low wattage version (think Two Rock, Divided by 13). I sometimes play with a band with a loud drummer. At times, upto two other guitarists, a bassist, sometimes other instruments (trumpet, keys, violin).
Last edited by chrismendiola at Jul 30, 2014,
#5
If you don't need pristine cleans with a drummer, 15w will work. If you need clean headroom, I'd say 50


Ts, whats your favorite amp model on the mustang?
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
Last edited by lucky1978 at Jul 30, 2014,
#6
I would like to keep a clean tone at higher volumes... I'm thinking I would have $600 to spend so I might get it used. Also wondering if the watts from a tube are more than a solid state. There is no way a 20 watt modeling amp can be as loud as these expensive tube amps! My favorite preset for clean is Twin Reverb. Anything with distortion I use British 80s. Those are pretty much the only ones I use.
#7
Quote by Fret Frier
I would like to keep a clean tone at higher volumes... I'm thinking I would have $600 to spend so I might get it used. Also wondering if the watts from a tube are more than a solid state. There is no way a 20 watt modeling amp can be as loud as these expensive tube amps! My favorite preset for clean is Twin Reverb. Anything with distortion I use British 80s. Those are pretty much the only ones I use.

I'm no expert, but I think tube amps with any amount of wattage is louder than the same amount of wattage in a solid state/modeling amp.
#8
Quote by Fret Frier
I would like to keep a clean tone at higher volumes... I'm thinking I would have $600 to spend so I might get it used. Also wondering if the watts from a tube are more than a solid state. There is no way a 20 watt modeling amp can be as loud as these expensive tube amps! My favorite preset for clean is Twin Reverb. Anything with distortion I use British 80s. Those are pretty much the only ones I use.

In short, yes, tube watts are much louder than ss watts (kinda, in a way). For example, a 20w Egnater Rebel will completely cover up a fully cranked 100w Vox Valvetronix. Really, the full, organic, musical tone that comes out of a good tube amp is what makes your ears perceive it louder. Its alive! Watts supposedly equates to how much headroom an amp has. So you would want more than 20w.

Well...you could get an hrd now with your budget. If I were you though, I'd bank that $600, maybe add more as time goes by, and target a real Twin Reverb.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20
Last edited by lucky1978 at Jul 31, 2014,
#9
I don't need this amp just yet, so getting a twin sound like an idea. 15-50 watts seems like a huge price jump just for some clean headroom. Do you know if Marshalls can good clean/blues. I'm a huge Hendrix fan so I know it's possible. I guess that I am asking if they can at a reasonable price.
#10
I could easily gig with a Blues Jr. and I'd bet that 99.9% of guitarists looking for Fender tone could too. A Twin is just too much amp for most of us these days. My drummer is pretty loud with a bigass Pearl kit, keys player has 1000w rig and the bass is 600w I think. I currently gig with a Mesa 30w and it can overpower everyone else if needed. I barely open up the master for my OD channel.

The difference between SS and tube wattage is this. When you peg a SS amp into clipping it sounds horrible. When you peg a tube amp into clipping it sounds glorious. The result is a tube amp only needs about 25% of the power a SS needs to sound good. Dime the tubes and wail, roll off the guitar volume to clean up for the ballads.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 31, 2014,
#12
Quote by Fret Frier
That makes sense. What is the cost comparison between a Mesa and fender?


They both have things to like, and share a lot of circuitry on the clean channel. I still think Fender Blackface tone is the most magnificent clean tone on earth and has the finest spring reverb. Mesa clean is very close based on the Fender Princeton circuit but also has a wider palate of glorious OD. I currently own 2 Fender tube amps and mostly gig with the Mesa. It checks all the boxes I need right now. If we do a Surf Music set for an upcoming vintage car show I will work up my Dick Dale shtick and bring the Super Reverb even though it is WAY TOO f'ing LOUD dimed.

Mesas tend to be more expensive but used ones can be found for $500-600. A Studio 22 is a pretty sweet rig that is unloved by the masses right now. Grab one and never look back.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 31, 2014,
#13
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on these amps. So what is this half stack or amp head/cab combos I hear about. Should I just forget about all that and buy one of those?
#14
Quote by Fret Frier
Thanks for sharing your knowledge on these amps. So what is this half stack or amp head/cab combos I hear about. Should I just forget about all that and buy one of those?


Lots of players still use em but none of the pros around me do. I ran a Tiny Terror head and 1x12 cab for a while when I really needed British crunch and it worked fine but my goto sound is more California than British. It just depends on the tone in your head. We all thought we needed a 4x12 half stack when we were 15. Most of us figured out along the way that we do not, and got tired of needlessly pushing them around when a 1x12 Mesa or Deluxe Reverb will get it done.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Jul 31, 2014,
#15
I saw a band at my sisters bar a few weeks ago.
The band pretty much sucked (I could tell that the "leader" had a Yngwie level ego without the talent to back it up and that kind ruined things. Even my sister was pissed at them for sucking so bad), but one of the guitarists had an Epiphone Valve Jr. and it sounded AWESOME.
He didn't have much clean headroom, but he made things work (And the bar is small).
Its only a 5 Watt amp, but 5 watts is louder than you think.

Although I would suggest 30 watts would be better.

I've got an AC30 with a 2x12 cab and I have never had trouble keeping up with a drummer or anyone else, even with a 60 watt Fender 4x10, or a 100 watt Marshall (1x12 or 2x12).

You might get lucky and find an AC30 for $600.
But $800 - $900 is more realistic, and an AC30 is not for everyone.
#16
Quote by lucky1978
In short, yes, tube watts are much louder than ss watts (kinda, in a way). For example, a 20w Egnater Rebel will completely cover up a fully cranked 100w Vox Valvetronix. Really, the full, organic, musical tone that comes out of a good tube amp is what makes your ears perceive it louder. Its alive! Watts supposedly equates to how much headroom an amp has. So you would want more than 20w.

Well...you could get an hrd now with your budget. If I were you though, I'd bank that $600, maybe add more as time goes by, and target a real Twin Reverb.


Sorry, but that's pretty much all bullshit. A watt is a watt.

What is true is that tube amps will almost without exception put out more watts than their rating while still sounding great while SS amps will not.

Circuit design, EQ settings and speakers also play a huge part in perceived sound, but from a factual technical perspective, a watt is a watt is a watt, doesn't matter what technology you use to get it.

Also, watts do NOT actually equate to how much headroom an amp has, that's just a generality that's been used around here and while it's useful as far as it goes, it leads to errors like this one. Circuit design is the primary factor in headroom, wattage only provides increased clean volume if the circuit allows it. Wattage IS an indirect measure of volume and not a linear measurement, which is why we don't encourage it's use to determine volume, as it confuses people not familiar with the math.

I respect that you're trying to help, and I hope this helps you in the future.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#18
Quote by fly135
Mic it up to the PA and you don't need hardly any watts.


Direct to PA through MFX, only need Milliwatts...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#19
Quote by Arby911
Sorry, but that's pretty much all bullshit. A watt is a watt.

What is true is that tube amps will almost without exception put out more watts than their rating while still sounding great while SS amps will not.

Circuit design, EQ settings and speakers also play a huge part in perceived sound, but from a factual technical perspective, a watt is a watt is a watt, doesn't matter what technology you use to get it.

Also, watts do NOT actually equate to how much headroom an amp has, that's just a generality that's been used around here and while it's useful as far as it goes, it leads to errors like this one. Circuit design is the primary factor in headroom, wattage only provides increased clean volume if the circuit allows it. Wattage IS an indirect measure of volume and not a linear measurement, which is why we don't encourage it's use to determine volume, as it confuses people not familiar with the math.

I respect that you're trying to help, and I hope this helps you in the future.

No worries, it helps a lil but I probably still couldn't explain it in detail properly. I tried to give just a layman to layman explanation, I have no problems whatsoever being corrected though.

One of my favorite funfacts is that, if used efficiently enough, 1w can blow your ear drum.
Fender Mustang/Derfenstein DST> Boss Power Wah> Pedal Monsters Klone> Bogner Uberschall> Walrus Audio Janus> Randall RM20> Line 6 M9> Randall RM20