#1
What contributes the most the overall tone you get from your rig, i know that everything plays a part (guitar, amp, pick and playstyle), but i'm wondering if there is one that outweighs the other, i personally have noticed that is doesn't really matter how i play (hard strike or average strums) i still get the same sound through the same amp ...
#2
You need a new amp or you need to rethink your settings.
Ibanez Prestige RG852MPB
Ibanez Prestige RG652KFX
ESP E-II M-1
LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
EVH 5150 III 50
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Deadhorse OD/Boss HM-2
#3
Quote by lemurflames
You need a new amp or you need to rethink your settings.

I was thinking that, my current amp is a Roland Cube 20XL, possibly upgrading to a Blackstar ID:30 in a couple of months
#4
You do. That's not to say those other things don't play a part, because of course they do, but the primary tone generator begins at the person playing the instrument. I will note that the better the gear, the MORE a good player is able to do with it.

It's my opinion that one's gear should always be at least slightly better than the capabilities of the player, so you're able to learn and grow.

From your description, your amp is lacking and it's time to upgrade, but you wouldn't have likely known/heard that when you first started.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#5
what do you play and what are you trying to achieve?
ich bin indeed ein sprechender panda, how are you?
Music student, Jazz/Classical/Prog
Music Man JP6 BFR, Ibanez S7420, Fender American Standard, Ibanez EW35 acoustic, 6505+
#6
I've found that, gear-wise, it's mostly the amp that influences the sound the strongest. You can get a good sound even out of a crappy guitar if you have a good amp. That said, the quality difference can definately be heard if you upgrade your guitar. So... I wouldn't recommend to prefer one over the other, however if your budget is tight, go for a better (or different) amp.
#7
the fingers. the fingers def contribute the most. it's at least, like, 60% fingers.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#8
It's very hard to say, because it depends on exactly what you're comparing (most would say "amp", but if you compare a telecaster versus a les paul through the same amp, and then the same guitar through a blackface and silverface twin, the guitar makes more difference in that case), plus different things affect the sound in different ways (even if the amp affects things more, if you want to sound like a tele, you need a tele, and a tele sort of always sounds like a tele).

but yeah if you have a starter pack amp the amp is probably the problem.

EDIT: how you play makes the biggest difference, obviously. I always separate it out into gear tone and finger tone.

Quote by Arby911
(a) I will note that the better the gear, the MORE a good player is able to do with it.

(b) It's my opinion that one's gear should always be at least slightly better than the capabilities of the player, so you're able to learn and grow.

(c) From your description, your amp is lacking and it's time to upgrade, but you wouldn't have likely known/heard that when you first started.


(a) I always wonder about this one- to me it's almost a paradox. I agree with you, but at the same time better players can normally compensate more for worse gear, as well.



(b) agreed, that's a good way to put it

(c) yeah the amp is very much ignored by a lot of people (even those giving advice a lot of the time)- "you just need a cheap practice amp, you're only learning"

some of those cheap practice amps would put anyone sane off learning...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#9
This isn't a real question. Could you ask this question in another context and have it make sense?

When you make a pizza, does the crust matter the most? Or the cheese? Or the toppings?
That question doesn't make any sense. If the crust is super shitty, or if the cheese is moldy, or if you're allergic to sardines - all of those things matter, and none of them can be captured in a question as simple as "what matters most to a pizza?" You can make vague generalizations ("I care more about the sauce than whether or not it has onions") and preferences ("to me it is important that pizza have a crispy crust") but to try to boil down a pizza or a guitar rig or a book or movie or whatever to "what matters most" is just far too vague to be useful. Even if you can come up with an answer ("the most important thing for pizza is fresh Mozzarella and Basil"), that information is only useful to you, and you've discovered what the word "subjective" means.

That's why we have a forum. We interact, ask questions, get information, try to help people use as much information as possible to make a good decision. This question is the opposite of that - it removes a lot of relevant information, so it's not possible or useful to answer.
#10
I've seen thousands of car analogies.

This is the first pizza analogy I've seen and I am not upset.
Ibanez Prestige RG852MPB
Ibanez Prestige RG652KFX
ESP E-II M-1
LTD AW-7
Schecter Loomis NT
EVH 5150 III 50
PRS 212 DB
Line 6 POD HD500X
Deadhorse OD/Boss HM-2
#11
Quote by Roc8995
When you make a pizza, does the crust matter the most? Or the cheese? Or the toppings?


that is why i said fingers. you can't even pick the pizza up to eat it without the fingers. at least 53.5%.

i am seriously surprised you posted on this thread and didn't shut it down.
punk isn't dead, it's always smelled that way.

"A perfection of means, and confusion of aims, seems to be our main problem."
-ae
#12
Trying some new things with threads now that our traffic is a lot slower than it used to be.

And fingers are like, 14% of the stuff you need for lifting, tops.
#14
Quote by gumbilicious
the fingers. the fingers def contribute the most. it's at least, like, 60% fingers.


Then we should all go to a finger forum instead of a gear forum.
#16
Quote by CodeMonk
Then we should all go to a finger forum instead of a gear forum.



Sounds hot.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#17
Quote by Roc8995
This isn't a real question. Could you ask this question in another context and have it make sense?


Q: I want to go really fast in my race car, which is the most important, power,weight or drag
?

A: While all 3 matter, power is the most important because it can most easily compensate for problems with the othesr. Also there are limits on how much you can reduce weight and drag but almost no limit to how much power you can bolt on.


I'm just sayin...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Aug 8, 2014,
#18
Is that why all the record lap times are held by souped-up tractor trailers?
What kind of "fast" are we talking about? Drag race? Nurburgring?
Where does the power come from? Does your answer only work if you have theoretical infinite power?
Ask an engineer sometime if they'd rather have zero weight or infinite power when designing a vehicle. I wish I could find my textbook now that had this exact question in it. Its answer was that zero weight was far, far more desirable. Think about it from a physics standpoint: F=MA. Zero mass gives you the same benefits of infinite power, but now you don't have to engineer a driveshaft that can withstand an infinite amount of torque (which I imagine would be hard )

This is exactly why such questions are hopeless. Even if you get the "right" answer (and I do not think there is one) you have to make far too many simplifying assumptions. The phrase "most important" implies "at the expense of other things" but it doesn't specify to what degree. Therefore there's no way to define "most important" in a field of several variables, if more than two of them have any importance at all.
#19
Quote by Arby911
Q: I want to go really fast in my race car, which is the most important, power,weight or drag
?

A: While all 3 matter, power is the most important because it can most easily compensate for problems with the othesr. Also there are limits on how much you can reduce weight and drag but almost no limit to how much power you can bolt on.


I'm just sayin...


No first you cant just "bolt on" infinite power. Second all the HP in the world is useless unless you getting traction. If your spinning tires down the track your not going very fast and third weight is very important thats why you dont see 18 wheelers taking off from stop lights. Im a mechanic and the same goes for cars as pizzas there are a lot of factors to making a car fast.
#20
Quote by Roc8995

This is exactly why such questions are hopeless. Even if you get the "right" answer (and I do not think there is one) you have to make far too many simplifying assumptions. The phrase "most important" implies "at the expense of other things" but it doesn't specify to what degree. Therefore there's no way to define "most important" in a field of several variables, if more than two of them have any importance at all.


We make simplifying assumptions here every day in the interests of convenience though. (The "wattage isn't volume, it's headroom" trope, which is incorrect but serves the purpose of explanation for most folks as an example.

I understand your objections but I don't think the question is without value, as it can lead to an explanation of said variables and how they affect the situation, giving the seeker a knowledge base from which to form opinions. I also know that doesn't always happen here (or elsewhere), but that doesn't diminish the potential.


Quote by cav22s
No first you cant just "bolt on" infinite power. Second all the HP in the world is useless unless you getting traction. If your spinning tires down the track your not going very fast and third weight is very important thats why you dont see 18 wheelers taking off from stop lights. Im a mechanic and the same goes for cars as pizzas there are a lot of factors to making a car fast.


I raced for many years, both circle track and dragstrip, I'm aware of the factors involved. I didn't say weight and drag didn't matter, I said that beyond a certain limit it's easier to increase power than to reduce weight or drag.

Take a SBC as an example, the World Products Aluminum Smallblock weighs about 435 pounds. In reasonable street performance form it will make 400hp or so. If I go with a billet crank, forged rods and pistons, a high compression ratio, roller cam and push about 20# of boost through it with the right fuel I can make north of 1,000 hp (at least for a while...).

It still weighs around 435 pounds, I CAN'T make it any lighter.

Drag is similar for most vehicles. There's a rational lower limit.

Sure the analogy is flawed, but it's not irrational to consider it.


And all of this is probably way too much skull sweat for what was initially intended as a tongue-in-cheek "challenge accepted" comment anyway, hence the smiley at the end.

“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#21
What I was really hoping for was pictures of 18-wheelers doing burnouts

We make simplifying assumptions, but this type of question demands too much simplicity, I think. We can define 'volume' reasonably well, and 'headroom,' but 'most' and 'best' and other superlatives are just far too vague to be useful with no other input.

We always revert to cars. I was really getting somewhere with the pizza thing.
#22
Quote by Roc8995
What I was really hoping for was pictures of 18-wheelers doing burnouts

We make simplifying assumptions, but this type of question demands too much simplicity, I think. We can define 'volume' reasonably well, and 'headroom,' but 'most' and 'best' and other superlatives are just far too vague to be useful with no other input.

We always revert to cars. I was really getting somewhere with the pizza thing.


You may be right, I'm likely overthinking this in a pathetic attempt to BE RIGHT, GODDAMMIT!

That's important ya know...don't take it away from me





Also...

www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB8QtwIwAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DD15KP1DfGTs&ei=d_fkU9LgIoyzyASei4HABw&usg=AFQjCNEShDeg_ZOmbYjnotp78V5Uiwbw3g&sig2=0TtH2u-CG2PjVPk-PdrruQ&bvm=bv.72676100,d.aWw
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#23
I don't know anything about pizza or cars. Can I have an analogy I understand? (Preferably 80s cartoons)
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#24
Quote by Dave_Mc
I don't know anything about pizza or cars. Can I have an analogy I understand? (Preferably 80s cartoons)


Which was more important to He-Man and the Masters of the Universe, Prince Adam, Skeletor or Cringer?

The answer of course is Prince Adam, since he became the title character as necessary, and although Skeletor and Cringer were important, there were other bad guys and supporting cast...


Hope that helps!


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#25
YAY
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#26
^^
Quote by Roc8995
We make simplifying assumptions, but this type of question demands too much simplicity, I think. We can define 'volume' reasonably well, and 'headroom,' but 'most' and 'best' and other superlatives are just far too vague to be useful with no other input.
To me, "tone" is even less definable than "most".

IMO, the amp is what makes the most difference to the sound.
Then there are the speakers in the cab, then there are the p/ups, then there's the cab.

The fingers, the way you play on the other hand, makes a difference in what comes out of the amp, which is the music you're making.

That makes the most difference in my opinion, though somebody might prefer listening to high quality produced music he doesn't like than low quality produced music he does like and I can't really argue about that.

Also for convenience's sake let's say "low quality produced" means an MG30FX and "high quality produced" means a dumble ODS.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I don't know anything about pizza or cars. Can I have an analogy I understand? (Preferably 80s cartoons)
Damn I get you might not know that much stuff about cars, I get Ireland's economy might not be the strongest and I also get some irish might not like (and might do everything to avoid) the irish culture being put aside a bit in favor of the italian culture, but how the **** do you not know enough about pizza to understand that example?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#27
Wow this thread is really off topic hopefully I can get it back on track, your amp sucks. I don't know if you play in a band or not but I used to play in a full metal band with a fender mustang 2 v.2 and it was plenty loud and sounded great! That being said do not get that amp if your not going to plug into you computer and use the fender fuse program. The amps cheap 150$ new from amazon and the fuse programs free. The amp has the most effect on tone, then pickups, then strings, then wood. And of course your playing style fits into there somewhere
#28
Quote by Spambot_2

Damn I get you might not know that much stuff about cars, I get Ireland's economy might not be the strongest and I also get some irish might not like (and might do everything to avoid) the irish culture being put aside a bit in favor of the italian culture, but how the **** do you not know enough about pizza to understand that example?


It was a joke.

Also northern ireland is part of the UK, not part of ireland, so maybe don't start throwing round accusations of my not understanding your culture when you don't understand mine?
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#29
Quote by elsatanica
I don't know if you play in a band or not but I used to play in a full metal band with a fender mustang 2 v.2 and it was plenty loud and sounded great!
I want clips of this, or witnesses.
Quote by Dave_Mc
It was a joke.

Also northern ireland is part of the UK, not part of ireland, so maybe don't start throwing round accusations of my not understanding your culture when you don't understand mine?


Well the island's still it, and the republic of ireland gained independence in 1922 (I've seen that in a movie with Liam Neeson so I'm sure of that), so don't you have any common pieces of culture?

Still,
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Aug 8, 2014,
#30
Quote by Dave_Mc

Also northern ireland is not part of ireland


That just kills me!

Yeah it fewkin' is, it's even connected!! Tis' a great bloody island, and you're all on it together...


“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Aug 8, 2014,
#31
Quote by Arby911
That just kills me!

Yeah it fewkin' is, it's even connected!! Tis' a great bloody island, and you're all on it together...



Northern Ireland is part of the UK, Ireland it'self (as in 'southern ireland') is a country in off itself

As far as i know
#32
Quote by Tcrumpen
Northern Ireland is part of the UK, Ireland it'self (as in 'southern ireland') is a country in off itself

As far as i know

He was joking.

Do you see the little green head bobbing up and down and the attempted accent
#33
Quote by Spambot_2



Well the island's still it, and the republic of ireland gained independence in 1922 (I've seen that in a movie with Liam Neeson so I'm sure of that), so don't you have any common pieces of culture?

Still,


no worries, sorry if i got a bit annoyed there

yeah i mean northern ireland is part of the UK, it's not independent like the ROI is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Ireland#Citizenship_and_identity

I seem to remember (could be wrong) around mid to high 50% of people want to remain british, whereas mid to low 40% want to be part of ireland. Though obviously that's malleable depending on the exact time the census is taken. the nationalist types would share more culture with ROI, whereas the british types would share more culture with the UK (maybe mostly scotland). Of course, to any outsider (even an outsider from the rest of the UK), people in NI will appear irish. There's a definite difference in accent and even in some words (though that doesn't necessarily mean much since that happens within countries too, and it's a continuum rather than a black-and-white thing).

It's probably in the wikipedia link somewhere if you can be bothered reading.

Quote by Arby911
That just kills me!

Yeah it fewkin' is, it's even connected!! Tis' a great bloody island, and you're all on it together...




well to be fair if you quote me out of context it doesn't make much sense. I mean canada is connected to the USA.

plus i obviously meant it in terms of sovereignty.

(you were probably joking as 311 says, in which case well played )
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#34
Follow-up questions:
Lingerie model with a Master in Fine Arts or stripper working on a Master in Chemistry?
Mesa Boogie or Diezel?
Male Thor or Female Thor?
Quote by Dave_Mc
It was a joke.

Also northern ireland is part of the UK, not part of ireland, so maybe don't start throwing round accusations of my not understanding your culture when you don't understand mine?

Is NI mostly Viking stock? Are they called Irish or Northern Irish?
#35
I'm not sure actually. I think the vikings hit parts of ireland (I think dublin was founded by them... at least there were people living there before that but they're the first sort of "recorded" ones I think), but whether they hit NI too, I dunno. A lot in NI are celtic (irish), scottish (probably also celtic), other british etc. Also norman in southern ireland (maybe northern too) which is sort of viking too. and obvously the brits who came across could've been part-viking as well.

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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#36
Quote by Dave_Mc
well to be fair if you quote me out of context it doesn't make much sense. I mean canada is connected to the USA.

plus i obviously meant it in terms of sovereignty.

(you were probably joking as 311 says, in which case well played )


I was of course joking, I'm aware of the political situation, I was simply riffing on the geographical oddity of the statement.

And if I said Canada wasn't part of America, you would (rightly) think me daft...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#37
Quote by Ippon
Follow-up questions:
Lingerie model with a Master in Fine Arts or stripper working on a Master in Chemistry?
Mesa Boogie or Diezel?
Male Thor or Female Thor?

Is NI mostly Viking stock? Are they called Irish or Northern Irish?


MFA, Mesa, Male. You're welcome...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#38
Quote by Arby911
I was of course joking, I'm aware of the political situation, I was simply riffing on the geographical oddity of the statement.

And if I said Canada wasn't part of America, you would (rightly) think me daft...


Very well played

I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?