#1
I've just bought a new PC for 1200 euros, and I need a new Program to record and produce Symphonic Metal. I used reaper in the past, but it crashes a lot, and also the orchestra vst's aren't 100% in time (they start playing about half a second after the right time, I never figured out why, and It sounds weird in the mix with the guitars and drums). I need it to be easy to use, like reaper (not pro tools, that daw is a nightmare) and compatible with windows!

EDIT: I heard about sonar x3, but I don't know if it's easy to use..
#2
Just out of curiosity, why did you get a pc for music production?

Anyway, it's greatly a matter of preference since you don't need particular midi handling capabilities, and the problem you had with reaper were probably either due to a slow system or old software.

Studio one is a big favorite, live is my favorite on pc but you may not like the interface, sonar has some nice stuff but I overall dislike it veeery much, if you don't care much for external plugins and you like an analog like workflow reason's for you, some like digital performer, some like cubase...

Download the free trial of everything and see what works best for you.

Also, mind that stuff becomes a lot less complicated once you've read the instructions manual.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#3
Quote by Spambot_2
Just out of curiosity, why did you get a pc for music production?

Anyway, it's greatly a matter of preference since you don't need particular midi handling capabilities, and the problem you had with reaper were probably either due to a slow system or old software.

Studio one is a big favorite, live is my favorite on pc but you may not like the interface, sonar has some nice stuff but I overall dislike it veeery much, if you don't care much for external plugins and you like an analog like workflow reason's for you, some like digital performer, some like cubase...

Download the free trial of everything and see what works best for you.

Also, mind that stuff becomes a lot less complicated once you've read the instructions manual.

Thanks, I'll check it out
#4
Quote by Spambot_2
Just out of curiosity, why did you get a pc for music production?


At that price point you get so much more for your money buying a PC than a Mac it's not even funny. In terms of new machines at that price you can either buy a MacBook Pro (laptop... unsuitable for full DAW) or an iMac (low spec'd for the price). A well set up Windows machine at that price will do so much more than a Mac for the same money.

Not bashing Macs or Apple products in general, if you can afford something good then they're really good, this is just the truth when it comes to hardware pricing.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#5
For $1200 you get a hell of a mac mini though.
Edit: wrong value - for €1200 you get a hell of a mac mini and a bit more.
Also you get mac os, which is hella better than windows under every aspect.

Hence, I don't really get why he got a pc.

And why wouldn't a laptop be suited for daw's?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#6
Quote by Spambot_2
For $1200 you get a hell of a mac mini though.
Edit: wrong value - for €1200 you get a hell of a mac mini and a bit more.


Not really, mac mini, 2.3 i7 (quad core) and 16gb of RAM, 1tb HDD, no mention of graphics card so I'm going to assume it's the onboard Intel HD4600. For that kind of money you could definitely do much better buying a PC.

Quote by Spambot_2
Also you get mac os, which is hella better than windows under every aspect.


I'm not going to argue with you about this: MacOS isn't better, it's just different. Every OS has weaknesses and Mac is no exception to this. Frankly most people don't seem to realise what a fantastic accomplishment Windows is. Either way, what's most conducive, given that neither has any inherent advantage, to productivity is familiarity and clearly TS is most comfortable with Windows.

Frankly I've also heard from long time Mac users that the newer iterations on MacOS are pretty much definably worse than the old ones, I don't know of anyone who actually likes Mavericks.

Quote by Spambot_2
And why wouldn't a laptop be suited for daw's?


DAWs need pure processing grunt. The physical limitations in terms of power consumption and internal space severely limit what you can get in to one at that kind of price point. You can get away with it for small projects with a limited number of tracks... but TS is doing symphonic metal. That means many tracks and, unless he has an orchestra stuck in his back pocket, a lot of VSTs as well. For most practical purposes unless TS wants to spend a lot of time bouncing tracks down that means a lot of processor power and a shit tonne of RAM.

Example: for the about same price as the Mac Mini spec'd above you get a 2.5ghz i5 (dual core), 4gb RAM and a 500gb HDD.

It's just impractical unless you have to be able to work on the move.
R.I.P. My Signature. Lost to us in the great Signature Massacre of 2014.

Quote by Master Foo
“A man who mistakes secrets for knowledge is like a man who, seeking light, hugs a candle so closely that he smothers it and burns his hand.”


Album.
Legion.
#7
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Not really, mac mini, 2.3 i7 (quad core) and 16gb of RAM, 1tb HDD, no mention of graphics card so I'm going to assume it's the onboard Intel HD4600. For that kind of money you could definitely do much better buying a PC.
What'd you suggest, a couple xeon's, 64gb ram and a GTX 780ti?
You could buy a better spec'd pc indeed, but you wouldn't get mac os and for whatever audio application even an ivy bridge 2.3 i7 would be better than a faster haswell i5 for the same or more money.

DAW's love hyperthreading.
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
I'm not going to argue with you about this: MacOS isn't better, it's just different. Every OS has weaknesses and Mac is no exception to this. Frankly most people don't seem to realise what a fantastic accomplishment Windows is.
No, I meant it, mac os is not only different, it's also plain better.
Linux is even better for some stuff, but you don't have much audio production tools there.

unix works better than ms-dos, noone will argue with you on that, and mac os has other advantages.
Better graphics server, better ram management, lighter, better processing power handling, less bugs, a hella better audio engine...
Quote by Zaphod_Beeblebr
Frankly I've also heard from long time Mac users that the newer iterations on MacOS are pretty much definably worse than the old ones, I don't know of anyone who actually likes Mavericks.
The last updates suck pretty bad, they're more or less porting iPhone features on desktops and laptops alone.
Most work better than the old ones though.

Also while I agree with you on the fact that laptops wouldn't be ideal in this situation, it's not like all laptops aren't suited for DAW's.
On the other hand, they come pretty handy when doing field recording or when you need to pack your setup and move it to a studio.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#8
My new pc has i7 3.6Ghz, 16GB ram, 1TB SSHD, and a Geforce GT660, so I believe It's good for anything. Even If macs are considerably better for audio production
#9
Quote by guitarpro2play
I've just bought a new PC for 1200 euros, and I need a new Program to record and produce Symphonic Metal. I used reaper in the past, but it crashes a lot, and also the orchestra vst's aren't 100% in time (they start playing about half a second after the right time, I never figured out why, and It sounds weird in the mix with the guitars and drums). I need it to be easy to use, like reaper (not pro tools, that daw is a nightmare) and compatible with windows!

EDIT: I heard about sonar x3, but I don't know if it's easy to use..


Reaper shouldn't be crashing and should be playing the vsti's in time. You should troubleshoot your setup.
#10
Luca can you please stop harping on about the glories of mac every time someone says they're buying/bought a PC? Most forum goers here don't use dedicated machines for recording, and windows does plenty of other stuff way better than OSX does. Also if you extend a little further than just raw performance PCs are often more suitable to starting recording (you can buy a similarly performing PC for less than the mac, and then use the excess to get better recording gear or not pirate software).

I'd be willing to bet that you're using up all your RAM running orchestral vsts and whatnot. That'd explain the crashing too. What you should do is once you have the vst set up, right click the track and freeze the track. This renders out the audio and removes the plugin, but stores the settings so you can right click it and unfreeze to get it back and change any settings if you need. It'll save you RAM which will improve the performance and decrease the chance of memory corruption (possible source of your crashes).
I'd guess it'd fix the timing issue too, and if not you could move the waveform anyway to put it in time.
#11
Quote by chatterbox272
Luca can you please stop harping on about the glories of mac every time someone says they're buying/bought a PC?
Ow come on, I just asked why he decided to get a PC instead of a mac, I started arguing when Zaphod said a win machine works better than a mac for the same money.
Quote by chatterbox272
and windows does plenty of other stuff way better than OSX does.
List it maybe?

Mac hardware is overpriced, but it does work better.
Same goes for linux, though that isn't overpriced and it hasn't got the necessary stuff to decently work with audio.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#12
Quote by Spambot_2
Ow come on, I just asked why he decided to get a PC instead of a mac, I started arguing when Zaphod said a win machine works better than a mac for the same money.
List it maybe?

Mac hardware is overpriced, but it does work better.
Same goes for linux, though that isn't overpriced and it hasn't got the necessary stuff to decently work with audio.


I've been working in IT for a year now, with both Macs and PCs. I've serviced hundreds of computers for every reason possible. The following are important to realize:

-A properly set up PC (with known stable hardware) works perfectly.
-A properly set up Mac (with the correct image for the hardware) works perfectly.
-A better processor is a better processor.
-A Mac is not automatically better than a PC, not even spec-for-spec.

Keep it clean, keep it minimal. Macs get slow too. For his money, he spent it well. Keep it maintained, it will be a beast. Stop hating on other people's stuff just because you don't like it.

And Linux- the kernel is literally as free as free can get. It's not even considered in the audio recording world; not even worth mentioning in this discussion.
Quote by WCPhils
According to that chart, women like men with a Pringle canister down there.
Michael Kelly Patriot Glory
Ibanez RG8
Blackstar HT 20 w/ Jet City cab
whole bunch o' pedals
Last edited by OfCourseNot at Aug 12, 2014,
#13
OP - I'll suggest you give Reaper another shot with the new PC.

I won't make this a Mac vs Windows issue, each has its plusses and minuses, and I work in both...

Currently I have no issues making music on a Win7 machine.


What are your synths, what is your audio interface? How many tracks do you need?
#14
I'd also suggest Reaper. Never had crashes with it.
I've moved from Sonar X1 to Reaper since I had problems with Sonar not being able to find some important VSTs I used. But other than that it has a great UI to work with for both MIDI and normal Tracking.

The samples not being on time is most likely a issue with the samples themselves. A lot of Orchestral libraries use short swells to start a sample of to make transitions between notes smoother. So you have to take that into account and place the notes a bit earlier.
It's different from library to library so I can't give any detailed tips for that.

BTW how is that SSHD working for you. I also want to upgrade to a new PC and I wasn't really sure if a SSHD it's woth it compared to a normal HDD.
Last edited by Tomura at Aug 12, 2014,
#16
Quote by Tomura
I'd also suggest Reaper. Never had crashes with it.


Reaper crashes a lot for me, but it might be one of my plugins.
Quote by WCPhils
According to that chart, women like men with a Pringle canister down there.
Michael Kelly Patriot Glory
Ibanez RG8
Blackstar HT 20 w/ Jet City cab
whole bunch o' pedals
#17
Quote by OfCourseNot
Reaper crashes a lot for me, but it might be one of my plugins.
Yeah, it's probably your plugins or your PC. I have never had crashes with Reaper, and I've used it on multiple machines.
#18
Ok, I'll try a few more DAWs, but the main problem I have now, is the small delay of some vsti. It usually happens with orchestral instruments. I'm not sure if it is a problem or if theres an option or something..
#19
Quote by guitarpro2play
Ok, I'll try a few more DAWs, but the main problem I have now, is the small delay of some vsti. It usually happens with orchestral instruments. I'm not sure if it is a problem or if theres an option or something..

As I wrote in my other post. That is a common problem with orchestral vst and the problems lies in the recorded samples. The other solution is to buy more expensive samples where you have more control on the dynamics. And even those might have a bit of a delay to include the subtle sound of a bow beginning to touch the strings, etc to create a more realistic sound.
Just Trigger the samples (placing the notes) a bit earlier. It's pretty tedious, but midi programming generally is. You will have to offset them anyways when you come to the humanizing part of your midi programming.
#20
Quote by guitarpro2play
Ok, I'll try a few more DAWs, but the main problem I have now, is the small delay of some vsti. It usually happens with orchestral instruments. I'm not sure if it is a problem or if theres an option or something..

Quote by chatterbox272
What you should do is once you have the vst set up, right click the track and freeze the track. This renders out the audio and removes the plugin, but stores the settings so you can right click it and unfreeze to get it back and change any settings if you need. It'll save you RAM which will improve the performance and decrease the chance of memory corruption (possible source of your crashes).
I'd guess it'd fix the timing issue too, and if not you could move the waveform anyway to put it in time.

problem solved