#1
Hi all;

I was wondering; If Kurt Cobain hadn't died, when would the grunge movement died out. I mean, Superunknown, Purple and Mellon Collie were all released after Cobain's suicide, with Mellon Collie's reease as late as October 1995, which proves that grunge certainly wasn't 'dead' at that point.

Also, let me know if you think if Nirvana would've stayed together, or split up. I think they were still working on an album at the time on Cobain's suicide. Also, would Foo Fighters have still happened? Would Dave Grohl have been doing as much as he does now?

Thanks!

RIP Kurt Cobain
#2
If Kurt hadn't died, only one thing would be different: Nirvana wouldn't be held in such high esteem. They would be lumped in there with Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Bush, STP, and other bands of the era.
#3
It would have been a whole lot cooler if Courtney Love Hole took pictures of his headless corpse and made an album cover of it and collected bone fragments for a necklace. Then maybe Nirvanya would be worth talking about.
#4
I think Nirvana was already on the verge of breaking up. The "grunge movement" was part of a larger tradition of underground music (see: Kurt Cobain's Top 50 Albums) that continues to this day. So many of today's bands were influenced by Nirvana's very short existence. I'm not talking about bands or singers who have tried to emulate their style (bands I won't bother naming that would have repulsed Kurt Cobain, to be sure).
I'm talking about the ones who were inspired by Nirvana's strength of character, their ethos, their love and support for underground music, their ability to write songs at once both catchy and subversive, and of course the raw, magnetic power of Kurt Cobain.

Some of my favorite bands, like The Strokes, Animal Collective, Women, and countless others have taken up where Nirvana left off. I see them as the embodiment of the "grunge" movement's natural evolution over the past two decades.

Frankly I believe Kurt Cobain would have grown tired of his own songs. We would have seen him embrace a more eclectic style working as a solo artist or in collaboration with others. By the time he was 40, he would probably have stopped making music altogether and picked up a paintbrush or something.
Last edited by Arthur Curry at Aug 21, 2014,
#5
Why did you lump Smashing Pumkpins in there?

Edit:
V
Axl, pls. We would have "bad music" no matter who lived or died.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 21, 2014,
#6
I agree with Arthur Curry. "You Know You're Right" seemed to have been the first song recorded for their next album after In Utero, which I believe may have been their last until perhaps a breakup or long hiatus, I would have bet that they'd do some reunion stuff like Rage Against the Machine or whoever else.
#7
Quote by supertom1
Hi all;

I was wondering; If Kurt Cobain hadn't died, when would the grunge movement died out. I mean, Superunknown, Purple and Mellon Collie were all released after Cobain's suicide, with Mellon Collie's reease as late as October 1995, which proves that grunge certainly wasn't 'dead' at that point.


The funny thing about Nirvana is Kurt thought they were a punk band, until a bunch of suits somewhere decided that the word "grunge" somehow had more mainstream appeal.

Quote by silversurfer91
If Kurt hadn't died, only one thing would be different: Nirvana wouldn't be held in such high esteem. They would be lumped in there with Pearl Jam, Alice in Chains, Bush, STP, and other bands of the era.


I think the reason Nirvana is held in higher esteem than some of those bands is just because they were the first "normal" rock band to have huge mainstream success after a decade of ridiculous hair metal and synthpop bands. Their music came along at just the right time when people wanted something different.

Because of that success they became very influential, even if they weren't the first band to make that style of music. Being the absolute first is rarely important in music. Early Elvis music was basically just blues, which people had been playing for DECADES. But he popularized it and in doing so became highly influential.
#8
Quote by bptrav
The funny thing about Nirvana is Kurt thought they were a punk band, until a bunch of suits somewhere decided that the word "grunge" somehow had more mainstream appeal.


That's interesting how you point that out. I realized a while ago that if I said I'm gonna learn a Nirvana song (guitar) I'd have it by the next day. Now if I said Soundgarden on the other hand, it'd take me a week tops. How is it that we lump in Nirvana in the genre when really the only similarity was MAYBE the vocal style.
Theory is just...wow. I'm getting a bit over my head by trying to learn so much w/o formal educators

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#9
I think his life would have mirrored Layne Staley’s – stop making music, shut out everyone, and slowly kill himself with heroine. Nirvana would have broken up and Grohl would have been forced to move on without Cobain, just like Jerry Cantrell did. Some incarnation of Foo Fighters might have existed, but it would have come later. So, I think Cobain would still be dead, just later. He had a bad heroine addiction, mental illness, Courtney Love to deal with, never wanted fame, and his family had a history of mental illness and suicide. Call me morbid but I just don’t see a scenario where he would still be living. It’s too bad, but we have Foo Fighters because of it all and in my opinion their music is much better than Nirvana’s.
#11
Quote by Mr.Koozie
I think his life would have mirrored Layne Staley’s – stop making music, shut out everyone, and slowly kill himself with heroine. Nirvana would have broken up and Grohl would have been forced to move on without Cobain, just like Jerry Cantrell did. Some incarnation of Foo Fighters might have existed, but it would have come later. So, I think Cobain would still be dead, just later. He had a bad heroine addiction, mental illness, Courtney Love to deal with, never wanted fame, and his family had a history of mental illness and suicide. Call me morbid but I just don’t see a scenario where he would still be living. It’s too bad, but we have Foo Fighters because of it all and in my opinion their music is much better than Nirvana’s.



I agree with all of this except Foo being better than Nirvana. Come on, mang. Their early stuff was good, but dude.
#12
Quote by Fagmotron 3000
I agree with all of this except Foo being better than Nirvana. Come on, mang. Their early stuff was good, but dude.

You can't compare the two bands music, they are two different beasts and both have their own appeal. I personally listen to Foo more but I hold them both a a very high esteem. Think about it, could you compare grapes and steak? Or gasoline and smiling faces? They simply are two different genres and different styles of music, I'm sure anyone on this thread would agree that they are/were amazing bands that need to be held to a certain level of respect.
-Primitive
#13
Quote by PrimitiveFuture
You can't compare the two bands music, they are two different beasts and both have their own appeal. I personally listen to Foo more but I hold them both a a very high esteem. Think about it, could you compare grapes and steak? Or gasoline and smiling faces? They simply are two different genres and different styles of music, I'm sure anyone on this thread would agree that they are/were amazing bands that need to be held to a certain level of respect.



You had me at gasoline and smiling faces!
#14
Nirvana would have always had clout since they started the alt rock scene into mainstream but they wouldn't be legendary like they are now. Could you imagine how legendary the smashing pumpkins would be if billy corgan died after melon collie
#15
Had Kurt not commit suicide/been murdered (your choice here) it's pretty likely that he'd have become tabloid fodder for his relationship issues w/ Holebag, substance abuse issues, and he'd have been demonized as a father for prioritizing his rockstar antics over the needs of his family. We all know the media loves to tear apart their temporary idols, so why would Kurt be any different?

After that went on for a few years, Kurt would have continued releasing music in relative obscurity, either under Nirvana (probably with a revolving door of members) or as a solo artist. Grohl would have gone on to do FF still, but the success would not have been as great and business relations between him & Kurt would have soured to the point that Dave would refuse to be in a band with Kurt (kind of like a Slash/Axl deal) and UG would milk this tension every couple of days.

People would complain about his new music while fondly remembering the Nevermind/In Utero days and ask Kurt if he'd ever get back together w/ Dave for a reunion. He'd give some roundabout answer where he ends up taking about how he's always respected Dave, but Dave wants nothing to do with him and it doesn't matter because he likes what he's doing with (his current drummer.) He'd also reveal that he's recently gotten into yoga, trying to stay healthy and stay off drugs and work on his relationship with his daughter.

Off course then the media would applaud him for his new found sobriety, and part of his 12 step program would be to apologize to all the people he's wronged over the years, which of course includes Krist and Dave. This would be the catalyst that gets Dave back in the band and have Nirvana record a reunion record, which, upon release, would fail to meet expectations and would get a 7.5/10 rating on UG. Then all the internet music nerds would say things like, "They should have broke up after In Utero" and "Do you think Nirvana would have been one of those legendary bands had Kurt Cobain died after In Utero?"

/thread, because "You know I'm right, you know I'm riiiigghhhtt"
#16
I change my answer. Forget what I said up above....because guitgrinder nailed it!
#18
Quote by bptrav
The funny thing about Nirvana is Kurt thought they were a punk band, until a bunch of suits somewhere decided that the word "grunge" somehow had more mainstream appeal.

Yeah, this is absolutely true. Even though they're considered the poster boys for grunge, they really weren't that similar to other bands in the genre. They had a lot more in common with the Pixies than Pearl Jam.

Honestly, there's no telling how things would've gone if Kurt had lived. But guitgrinder's answer amuses the hell out of me.
#19
Well considering Kurt was planning on leaving the music business anyways and was divorcing Courtney Love, I'm pretty sure he would of just locked himself up and nobody would ever see him again, whether he would have killed himself later on or not.
#20
Ya although they were successful they werent around for a long time. They music isnt super complicated which I guess made it so popular. I definitely dont think they deserved to get in the HOF before the likes of SRV. I think Soundgarden was a much more talented band and in my opinion was the best band along with Alice and Chains to come out of Seattle.
#21
Kurt was out of material, most of in utero was written pre nevermind, he was getting ready
to split from holebag and was murdered for it
I think he would have quit altogether
maybe tried at alone then quit
he wasn't interested but he was a massive contradiction because all he wanted to do was make it then when he did he didn't want to shame really
What he did to dave and krist over nevermind royalties was terrible
#22
Kurt didn't die, he killed himself. I view the two separately.

That's besides the point. Grunge never died. It coincidentally lined up chronologically with the time that people became more and more obsessed with classification and sub-classification, as well as the increasing use the internet in the late 90's, which allowed super nerds (the type who were computer nerds and music nerds) to participate in said sub-classification on forums.

I'd be willing to bet thousands of albums released from the late 90's into the mid 2000's would have been "grunge" if we didn't come up with other crap to call it.

more appropriate to the actual question...

Nirvana would have broken up and we would have had the Foo Fighters, but they wouldn't have been as good.
Last edited by BUZZARD__ at Dec 16, 2014,
#24
Quote by d2ore
Kurt was out of material, most of in utero was written pre nevermind, he was getting ready
to split from holebag and was murdered for it
I think he would have quit altogether
maybe tried at alone then quit
he wasn't interested but he was a massive contradiction because all he wanted to do was make it then when he did he didn't want to shame really
What he did to dave and krist over nevermind royalties was terrible


Do Re Mi and you know youre right were both solid tracks that were going on the next album i think he had a lot of good stuff left.
#26
Quote by BUZZARD__
Kurt didn't die, he killed himself. I view the two separately.


Some elaboration here? Last time I checked when someone is "killed" they simultaneously "die."

Anywho I remember seeing in an interview that the next Nirvana album was going to be something other than grunge, so...poop. Perhaps the grunge movement would have diminished even more. It's def not dead tho.
#27
Kurt Cobain would've ended up like Weiland. Pearl Jam was carrying the grunge movement at the time of Kurt Cobain's death anyway, and they rejected the whole thing so it was bound to die out.

I think 23 years ago if people were asked which bands would still be around today, Soundgarden and Pearl Jam would've been the answers. They were and still are just much more stable than any other band during that time.
#28
Nirvana would have probably ended up not being praised as much as it currently is. They probably would have ended up losing fame due to the growing Nu Metal wave during the mid 90's to the early 2000's
#29
It's always interesting, the "what if's" that will never be answered. Nirvana had its time to shine back in the generation that truly grew up right next to it and with it. Nowadays, he might get ripped on for being TOO drugged up or too suicidal. Courtney is still blamed for the vast majority of his problems. Personally, I wouldn't know what would happen if he was still alive, but let's just take a good guess that Foo Fighters wouldn't have existed at all since Dave still enjoyed working with Kurt even when Kurt was going through his worse times. The band was popular because it was a more angst-filled time with less technology going on and more folks offing themselves comparatively. (I may or may not be wrong on these guesses) One thing is for certain, however: the future then would have changed from the present now and even the future from now, too. That is all I can figure to be true regardless.
#32
Congrats on bringing back my year and a half old thread guys Man, this was back in my Pantera/mainstream metal fanboy days lol.
#33
It's okay, whatever you're into now will embarrass you in due time.
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