Richard Dawkins considers it immoral to allow foetuses with Down Syndrome to live

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#1
http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/s-syndrome-babies-aborted-birth-says-Richard/story-22790505-detail/story.html

CONTROVERSIAL scientist Richard Dawkins has sparked anger once again - this time by claiming foetuses with Down's syndrome should be aborted.

The outspoken athiest author said parents should abort unborn babies with the condition and "try again".

He made the comments during a Twitter debate, provoking fury from many online.

Down's syndrome is a genetic disorder that delays growth and causes intellectual disability.


A Boston-based writer calling themselves 'InYourFaceNewYorker' tweeted at him: "I honestly don't know what I would do if I were pregnant with a kid with Down's syndrome. Real ethical dilemma."

Prof Dawkins' reply to the American's comment has since prompted a furious response online.

"Abort it and try again," he said.

"It would be immoral to bring it into the world if you have the choice."


whelp.

Why can't the parents get to choose whether to raise a child with Down or not and not be seen as monsters if they don't?
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Aug 21, 2014,
#2
good for him for having thoughts

i had a thought once but it was fleeting
i don't know why i feel so dry
#4
Quote by Eastwinn
good for him for having thoughts

i had a thought once but it was fleeting


okay morrisseyy
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as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#6
but yeah, dawkins is a bit of a plonker with that statement.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#7
Fuck that stupid mother fucker Dawkins

No words can describe how much hate I have for this lame ass douchebag mother fucker, we get it you're an atheist big fucking woop
bawitaba a bang a bang diggy diggy diggy sed the boogie sed up jump the boogie
#8
Quote by RylanThePotato
Fuck that stupid mother fucker Dawkins

No words can describe how much hate I have for this lame ass douchebag mother fucker, we get it you're an atheist big fucking woop

... I really don't think you understand the value of ethical discussion
#10
Quote by Trowzaa
okay morrisseyy


did i make an accidental reference?
i don't know why i feel so dry
#11
I'm against abortion in any circumstance, I value life.
Some see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. Me? I see that the glass is refillable.
#12
If I had to make the decision, I'd definitely abort a fetus with Downs and try again. I don't see a reason to bring a person into the world that will never be anything but a drain on my family and society as a whole. You don't recover from Downs, you're just a blob that needs constant attention for the rest of your life. I don't think that is a life worth living, and I sure as hell don't think I'm morally obligated to take on that burden when it can easily be avoided early in the pregnancy.

That said, I'm not imposing a moral imperative on anyone else to do the same. If you think God will send you to hell if you don't spend your entire life paying to keep your Downs kid alive, whatever. That is your problem. It's obvious how I would advise someone to act, but nobody is under a moral obligation to take that advice. That is you and your family's business.
#14
Remember when people on UG treated him like a saint?
THE FORUM UPDATE KILLED THE GRADIENT STAR

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#15
Quote by necrosis1193
Remember when people on UG treated him like a saint?


and people say this forum has gone downhill

tsktsk
i don't know why i feel so dry
#16
Quote by necrosis1193
Remember when people on UG treated him like a saint?

and used this emoticon non-sarcastically?

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#18
Quote by captaincrunk
have you ever even met someone with downs? or any human being? christ


Okay, yeah, you're right. That was way harsh. They are still people.
#20
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Why can't the parents get to choose whether to raise a child with Down or not and not be seen as monsters if they don't?

I wouldn't call them monsters no matter what they choose, but choosing to keep it is choosing to make your life a lot harder than it has to be.

Then again, some people like the idea of devoting their entire life to taking care of another human being.

But I think there are plenty of humans that need to be taken care of already.
#22
So if someone is made different we should kill them....


right
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
#23
Dawkins is a twat anyways, I honestly don't know why people are surprised by anything he says.

I disagree with his statement. Although you could argue that dependent on the severity of the autism that they couldn't live a "full" life that a normal person would. Which is somewhat bullshit, but you could argue it.
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#24
Quote by stratman_13
Dawkins is a twat anyways, I honestly don't know why people are surprised by anything he says.

I disagree with his statement. Although you could argue that dependent on the severity of the autism that they couldn't live a "full" life that a normal person would. Which is somewhat bullshit, but you could argue it.

Even if you could "prove" such a thing (which you couldn't, because it'd either be a philosophical argument [which would be good] or 100% opinion [which is usually bad]), it'd still be really stupid to claim that the moral thing is to kill fetuses that have down syndrome. No, the moral thing would be to let the parents choose.

Quote by Jackintehbox
Christ, that's harsh. I don't disagree though.

Now I'm curious. At the risk of this being painful...why do you agree with Dawkins here?
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 21, 2014,
#25
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Now I'm curious. At the risk of this being painful...why do you agree with Dawkins here?

It makes sense to not bring someone into this world who couldn't possibly live a full life, and abortion is really the only way of exercising control in that situation. I'm not saying that I would do it or that I would even recommend it, but it is logical. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about, but I couldn't honestly hold it against someone for making that decision. It really shows what shade of pro-choice a person is.
#26
Quote by Jackintehbox
Christ, that's harsh. I don't disagree though.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlpRBLkgcBo

nina'd
Quote by Jackintehbox
It makes sense to not bring someone into this world who couldn't possibly live a full life, and abortion is really the only way of exercising control in that situation. I'm not saying that I would do it or that I would even recommend it, but it is logical. It makes me sick to my stomach to think about, but I couldn't honestly hold it against someone for making that decision. It really shows what shade of pro-choice a person is.

Who are you to say that they cannot live a fulfilling life?
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Aug 21, 2014,
#28
Quote by Jackintehbox
It makes sense to not bring someone into this world who couldn't possibly live a full life,

Ok. Logically support this point. Prove it, essentially.
#29
Quote by captaincrunk
it's certainly an option, aborting a fetus with downs. but it's hardly an ethical imperative...


My man crunk got it on the money yo

Parents prerogative man. All there is to it really.

Ain't nothing about being a 'genetically normal' (you know, ten fingers ten toes, etc.) person that means you are worthy of life. (Which is what Dawkins is implying)
#30
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Ok. Logically support this point. Prove it, essentially.


more importantly, if objective proof is impossible in a universe which poses restrictions on our knowledge, besides how one could 'prove' this point, how could one 'prove' it in 'essence'?

matecheck
i don't know why i feel so dry
#31
Quote by Eastwinn
more importantly, if objective proof is impossible in a universe which poses restrictions on our knowledge, besides how one could 'prove' this point, how could one 'prove' it in 'essence'?

matecheck

I already covered this. See post#24.

That said, I still want to hear his logic on that particular point. Good logic is, at the bare minimum, sound.
#32
dude is a jackass

where's brad when you need him
___

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Last edited by WCPhils at Aug 21, 2014,
#33
Yeah, people with mental illnesses are completely incapable of feeling any sort of happiness so it's better to just kill them off. I'm sure Down's kids the world over constantly ask their mom why didn't they just abort them.
#34
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Who are you to say that they cannot live a fulfilling life?

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Ok. Logically support this point. Prove it, essentially.

It's subjective.
#35
He kinda forgets that down syndrome individuals have the ability to fully function in todays society. Shit, some of them are even more handicappable than worthless shits who collect welfare and dont contribute to society.

I understand where he comes from, but it is a very shallow and singular thought process.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#36
It'smobile so I don't feel like quote editing.

Sam: I agree with you, certainly. I'm just saying to play devil's advocate that you could argue that as a case. It would be stupid and impossible to prove literally but I suppose on a philosophical level you could argue about the fullness of life.
--

How do you say "I'm okay" to an answering machine?

--
#37
Quote by Jackintehbox
It's subjective.

And that's the flaw in such an argument.

Quote by stratman_13
Sam: I agree with you, certainly. I'm just saying to play devil's advocate that you could argue that as a case. It would be stupid and impossible to prove literally but I suppose on a philosophical level you could argue about the fullness of life.

Fair enough!
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Aug 21, 2014,
#38
Quote by Jackintehbox
It's subjective.

Who the fuck would've thought?

If it's so subjective, why are you trying to objectify the value of a foetus' life?
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Violets are blue
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#39
Needlessly harsh, but I don't necessarily disagree. The creation of another human being isn't treated with the seriousness it warrants and nobody ever wants to talk about the ethics of creating life (unless it's done in a lab and you get the 'u kant play GOD' nonsense)
Quote by EndTheRapture51
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#40
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
And that's the flaw in such an argument.

It's not an argument, it's an opinion. Or at least what I'm saying is. Who knows what Dawkins is on about.
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