#1
Hi there,

I am looking for a small and light head, somewhere between 20-50 Watt, 3 Channels or at least two with boost/modes switch for Rock/Hardrock/Bluesrock.

There are at least the EVH 5150III and the H&K Grand- or Tubesmeister 36 which will come close to what I am looking for.

Has anyone tried both amps and especially for the Rock/Hardrock category. Mostly all videos you'll find on the internet are - at least for the EVH - from guys playing the real hard stuff. I wonder if the EVH can also be used for the lighter stuff.

Anyone experienced with both amps? Or any thoughts on a totally different amp? Thanks for your help!
Ashley
#2
Is there any way you can play either?

IMO, EVH, no contest.

H&K amps just don't sound good to me. They are flat and dull. Trying to find something to compare them to, they kind of remind me of the distortion on a Peavey ValveKing. Just kind of... there.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#3
The 5153 is the choice out of those two amps.

Are you looking to play metal and then play some blues/rock on the side or vice versa?

Metal with others: 5153
Others with metal: JCM 2000 DSL
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#4
hm, I don't play metal at all. So I would use the EVH for the Rock/Hardrock/Bluesrock stuff.

I can't try them out both at the same time. Didn't find a dealer with both of them. I could order both and send one back. But before I do that I am hoping someone has tried both (and not for metal) and can tell me something about them.
#5
Why do you need 3 channels then?

Give us examples of exactly what you consider "rock" "Hard rock" and "blues". Link songs that have tone you'd like to get close to.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#6
well I would like to have a clean, crunch and lead channel. I read that the EVH is not good in switching from clean to crunch (shared volume etc.).

In general i like that percussive sound like here at 0:47 or also at 1:19:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_hOULA7Pik

If the H&K could get these kind of tones I would got for that amp. But, like you written above, I also think that the H&K in general have no real characteristic sound. Mostly its dull and flat.
#7
I would look into some Orange amps, like the Dual Terror or the Thunder 30. They only have two channels, but they are pretty much build for everything from blues to hard rock, and the TH30 has a loop so you could just use a booster.
Last edited by jinsu2301 at Aug 23, 2014,
#9
I've always liked the features and build quality of the attention whorish H&K and definitely what they bring to the table; so, I never understood where the dull and flat came from other than the constant regurgitation in this forum.

You need to try them both. I plan to get the Grand or TubeMeister 36 when I see a nicely-priced one.
#10
As mentioned above, there's a few used TH30s for $800 on GC right now. I think it would be better suited for you.

Put an EQ in the loop like an MXR 10 Band and that will become your solo boost.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#13
The EVH all day, every day.
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#15
just my 2 cents....that v3m is a fizzy muddy mess. tube changes bias changes cabinet swaps and wattage changes do not help that mess of an amp. the one i had was promptly sold after 1 month of owning it.

in this case id go with the H&K.
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It is NOT trash metal it is tHrash metal...get it right
#16
the V3m sure sounds good on all the sound clips when you search you tube , Guitar Player mag gave it a good review , best of NAMM 2011 , ..... I'm going to get one , if it sounds bad as you say yours did then I will exercise Carmen's 10 day return policy if I don't like it , I don't think I'll lose anything
#17
i just bought a v3m im an attempt of getting a 3 channel, power scaling, lunchbox amp that does everything well. however, historically almost product can pull off the " does everything well" thing. i suppose the closest to that would be a really kick butt axe FX or kemper rig,,,but at a huge price tag.

i have considered the mesa mini recto and the EVH, both in the similar price range of about 1000. the grandmeister new with the midi switch will run an easy 1500. the carvin was about 650 with the footswitch. i call these different clasess of amps. if my carvin doesnt hold up, i will have to painfully accept my musical tastes are only satisfied by a 1000+ amp.

to the topic at hand:

i wasnt a fan of the regular tubermeister. good thick cleans but i personally found the gain tones to be weak, and the boost tones to be fake sounding. i think thats because i firmly believe they are using solid state components in the chain. i think the same is true for the grans meister.

a true all tube amp is going to generally take 1-2 tubes for preamp, perhaps some middle ones for EQ or a tube drive effects loop, and generally a dedicated tube for the phase inverter. the phase inverter is almost always fixed. that means these HK amps have 2 tubes, one is phase inverter. that leaves 1 for the preamp. you simply cant coax that much tonal variation and gain out of 1 tube.

the grandmeister has 3 preamp tubes. again, subtract 1. so you have a 4 channel amp pushing that much gsin off 2 preamp tubes? dont think so. i call BS. probably why people say they have a "hi-fi" tone or something distict going on. they do, i think they are getting a lot of supplementary tonal help from other trickery.

this isnt really bad. its just an observation. i personally think the midi and i pad app capabilities of this grand meister is insamely awesome. a real game changer. if i was dropping 1500 bucks would i consider it? yes. of course. how you you deny that functionality? the same thing as considering a v3m for offering 3 dedicated, independent channels from clean to high gain, power scaling, direct out, dip switches, onboard boost etc for 650. i just had too.

now, my viewpoint on the mesa and the fender EVH 5153....i think these are classic designs done right, a typical high gain high quality amp(S) and i think the true high gain tube tone will more likely be better on these amps. especially the 5153 seems to be known for super clarity when pushing high gain.

look at those amp layouts. look at other high gain fire breathing beasts like peaveys, bogners, soldano, deizel, etc. notice the tubes they have. think it makes a difference? theres a reason all those tubes are in there.

my egnater tweaker has 3 preamp tubes. 1 is for phase inverter, 1 is a tube driven FX loop. that leaves 1 tube to run the tone on 2 channels. probably means the tube is split, and your only getting like 1/2 tube per channel. does the amp sound good? sure. its great for classic rock. however the gain tone is seriously lacking. some things its sounds okay on. some not. when you push the amp, it begins to buzz and hiss like "hey man, you making me go overboard here." . you simply need more under the hood to quietly handle high gsin with clarity and punch than 1-3 preamp tubes. just my observation.

i guess where im going here is this:

i think the grandmeister should be considered for this game changing flexibility. i mean, that can redefine how people gig. holy cow.

if you wanted the best high gain tone without question and tonal compromise i would bet all my money on a EVH 5153. but a 5153 cant do all the trickery the grandmeister can.

it is the classic tone vs features vs cost we all battle. some amps like soldano pretty much sit on the tone side of the fence. some amps like deizel and mesa can come close to offering you both. or kemper and ax fx rigs can pretty much throw everything in the garbage and attemp at being a 1 stop rig built for the gods.

the correlation - they all costs thousands and thousands of dollars.

i may never jump on that boat. so, in the meantime, i will sell my tweaker, retube my carvin v3m (when it gets here) and hopefully that will keep me happy for the next 2 years....
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Last edited by ikey_ at Aug 24, 2014,
#19
Hey, why haven't we put the Mesa mini recto in the running? That'd be my first choice by long shot.

BTW, if the HK has that many channels on so few tubes, I call bs! It is most likely solid state design with some tube coloring.
#20
Hi Ikey, thanks for your reply. Really helps. But why you think the Carvin does that thing with the tubes better than the Grandmeister. They have the same amount and styles of tubes in them, no? An the sound, for example on this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zh4fSlSUWX8
is not really good I think. I like the Grandmeister sound, from videos like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0B3J5e60FJs
much better.

But I think both are missing this clear, percussive and yet distorted sound like the EVH. At least this is all based on Youtube videos which, I think, is not a really accurate in reality.

But your thoughts on the tubes help. Thanks.
#21
well the carvin has an extra 12ax7, so it doesn't have the same amount.

the grandmeister might be all-tube, i dunno- 3 is pushing it but might be possible . but we know the tubemeister isn't, and h&k has form with these hybrids with other models in the past (not to mention swore blind that the tubemeister was all-tube when asked, so that was a downright lie (allegedly! and in my opinion!)), so we're going to be suspicious.

regarding the hybrid thing, didn't matt say at one point that the 5150 III had some shenanigans too?
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#22
For something that weighs almost nothing and delivers the tones one prefers, it's a no-brainer. Even the Mesa Roadking II has a silicon diode rectifier for when you need all 6 power tubes and is a beast to move.
#23
my self I'm in Ikey's boat , if this new Carvin V3m doesn't cut it then I will be in the 3000.00 dollar and up category , most likey end up with a Messa MkV or something similar , but for that kind of coin I will need to play it first , with the Carvin 10 day return policy I'm not worried if it sounds muddy or fizzy , I'll just send it back
#25
The Mark V is in a whole other class. If you can afford one, get it. By comparison everything else mentioned here is a toy. But if we are venturing into that territory, get a SLO.
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#26
well the carvin had 4 preamp tubes. without knowing anything about the design i will say at least 2 are used by the preamp for actual gain stages. each tube genrally have 2 halves, so that can be up to 4 stages. not bad. i also dont attribute the carvin to being a true high gain monster like the 5153 or a deizel, etc. it can do gain stuff well, its kinda aimed at doing a lot well. but i dont even compare the carvin v3m to a EVH 5153. no chance.

i think the mesa mark 5 is a true representation of 100% tube tone that does everything well. but its about a 2500 USD retail amp. so, its justified. the carvin is 600. so subtract 1900 dollars in tone.

the grandmeister seems to always have demos if its higher gain capabilities. i am just pointing out that i personally find its higher gain tone to be a bit "off" and i also correlate that with a typical design of having too few preamp tubes. other amps like that? engl gig masters? a bunch others that i cant think of off the top of my head. quite simply - how do you create that much gain with only 1-3 preamp tubes?!? tell me!!!
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#27
One of those "preamp" tubes is in the power amp too. You stick a SS boost in front of it like their other amps, I guess.
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#28
Quote by Dave_Mc
not to mention swore blind that the tubemeister was all-tube when asked, so that was a downright lie (allegedly! and in my opinion!)), so we're going to be suspicious



Yep, same with me, when I asked for schematics, they stopped responding.
#29
I am always extremely suspicious of companies that won't release schematics. Small builders are no competition and bigger ones that may copy them (like Behringer) don't need them. So why do they hide their schematics? Dodgey fucckers, that's why.
Gilchrist custom
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Marshall 18W clone
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Boss GT-100


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#30


Agreed.

^^ Yeah that'd ring my warning bells too- "Oh, it's all-tube, honest!"

"Can I have a schematic then?"

*tumbleweed*



EDIT: Just to clarify, I never actually asked them, but I'm sure at least one person posted on here saying they'd emailed them, and they swore blind they were all-tube and (IIRC) seemed to be even a bit put-out that people had the temerity to question that it wasn't all-tube.

Getting defensive is often a warning sign too, if you ask me.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 25, 2014,
#31
I'm yet to hear a H&K that I was overly impressed with anyway. You'd be better off with a JCA IMO.
Gilchrist custom
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Randall RM100 & RM20
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Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
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Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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#32
i liked the triamp i tried

and the duotone

even the edition tube (which i later learned was hybrid ) to a certain extent
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#33
An ex rhythm guitarist of mine had a Triamp. It was OK but my JCM900 ate it alive, let alone the RM100. I wasn't impressed.
Another one used a Switchblade, wasn't impressed by that either. And the Tubemeister 18 sounded all fizzy and shit. An overdrive in front of one of my 18W'ers is far superior.

Maybe I'm spoiled.
They aren't shit, they're just unimpressive. I'd call them an "also ran" amp.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
The switchblade is the one with all the presets, right? I hated that one, I thought it sounded like a solid state amp

I haven't tried the tubemeister yet, but that's my complaint about all these hybrids- once you realise that they're basically a cheaper/more basic amp with a boost/od/distortion in front, it makes you wonder if the cheaper/simpler amp with a few pedals might not sound as good. For less money. And with a lot more options regarding how you get your sound (you can turn off pedals if you want it to be all-tube, you can also mix and match pedals to get exactly what you want).

I'm not normally a fan of cutting down my options until I have to. And I'm really not a fan of doing it if I have to pay more for the dubious privilege
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#35
I have a HK Tubeman floor preamp that is quite good for what it is. It essentially is a 3 Chan.preamp with token tube but sounds good. From what I hear from the amp's demos, the sounds are very similar to my pre which makes me wary of the price and the "tube" statement.
#36
^ yeah companies often reuse designs, since it saves them money (and also can start people thinking the brand has a certain "sound", which, as long as that sound is good, is normally a good thing since people think it means "character" or that it can't be got anywhere else or whatever)...
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?