#1
Does anyone have an idea about how ESP E-II M-II neck compares to that of E-II ST-1 in terms of shape and thickness, considering they're both labelled "Thin U" and are from the same series?

Also, Edwards E-SN-150FR seems like it's the Edwards version of E-II ST-1. So I wonder if they use the same neck (again, shape and thickness-wise).
#2
I saw this thread on the tokai forum and thought it might have been you

I'm not sure- have you emailed ESP? It's normally worth a try emailing the manufacturer when you want factual information.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
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#3
Quote by Dave_Mc
I saw this thread on the tokai forum and thought it might have been you

I'm not sure- have you emailed ESP? It's normally worth a try emailing the manufacturer when you want factual information.


That was me . Yeah, I emailed them, but I don't even expect to get a reply from them, because most big companies don't really like replying to emails not concerning actual orders. And if they will reply, I expect them to not know anything about their own products besides what's on the website and to act like ESP has nothing to do with Edwards. But if they prove me wrong, I'm going to respect them more
#4
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#5
ESP website lists them as Thin-U I'm fairly sure they're the same neck, just one is through and the other is bolton. Which would be the standard as of all ESP Horizons, M's (except ultra thin u on the maple ones from time to time)
#6
Actually I was wrong about ESP customer service. They replied with a detailed info. So my apologies for jumping to conclusions!

E-II/M-II
42mm Nut Shelf
57mm Width @ Last Fret
19mm Thickness @ 1st Fret
21mm Thickness @ 12th Fret
305mm Fingerboard Radius
Extra Thin U Neck Shape

E-II/ST-I
42mm Nut Shelf
57mm Width @ Last Fret
20mm Thickness @ 1st Fret
22mm Thickness @ 12th Fret
305mm Fingerboard Radius
Thin U Neck Shape
#7
Nice
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#8
Kinda off-topic but generally related;

Is anyone else experiencing some trepidation or redicents in legitimately accepting the new "E-II" badging as the "new standard line"?

People have argued that there's no difference between the E-II models and the old ESP "standard" line. However, having been to some direct-from-Japan websites and having seen the Edwards guitars; they match up nearly spec for spec with their E-II counterparts.

In European market and even the JDM market Edwards is ESP's mid-range brand; in pecking order would be: 3. Grassroots, 2. Edwards, 1. ESP.
The fact that a majority of Edwards models on direct-from-Japan websites are under a grand; and the fact that the ESP E-II's match up spec for spec with the Edwards models causes me some vexation.

Think about it ESP+Edwards= E-II

I for one am not into paying just shy of $2k for a guitar that sells for less than a grand in other markets

Just a little more info; Edwards guitars are made in ESP main Tokyo facility but are assembly lined and pretty well thrown together; I wouldn't expect the fit and finish to be much better than that of an LTD deluxe (1000 series).

Whereas the ESP standard line utilized CNC to great extent but was much more involved, extra fret finishing, hand-finished necks, that has since gone the way of the dodo for the U.S. market; sorry bros but grab your ankles and accept your fates if you're gonna spring for an E-II.

Curiously the ESP "standard" line exists in EVERY other market BUT the U.S. (however ESP also markets the E-II line in Japan alongside Edwards and their STANDARD line).

With regards to your question about the neck shape; its all CNC'd out so the profiles should be identical.

Off-topic still related; the LTD "Thin-U" is roughly .05" shallower (smaller in circumstance) than the ESP "Thin-U" contour

My first guitar was an LTD EX-50, ESP is still one of my favorite brands but admittedly they've priced themselves right out the market and handed their position as THE leading Japanese guitar company over to Ibanez.

Ibanez has been cutting prices on their Prestige model's, however having introduced the "Iron Label" they've damaged their reputation because from all I've heard the IR guitars have been hit miss with more misses than hits.
#9
The E-ll I had was really nice, really miss it badly sometimes.... Sigh.
But yeah the qc and quality was there, def worth the price. Sux that the headstock doesnt say esp, but that shouldnt be a priority anyways. Go for it, im debating between an esp and cavin for my next purchase.
#10
^^ I was always suspicious that the EIIs might be rebadged Edwardses, but I haven't seen them in the flesh and have nothing to back that up.

Some edwardses are started off in china too, as far as i'm aware.
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Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#11
Quote by Dave_Mc
^^ I was always suspicious that the EIIs might be rebadged Edwardses, but I haven't seen them in the flesh and have nothing to back that up.

Some edwardses are started off in china too, as far as i'm aware.


There is an unpdate on the whole Edwards made in China subject:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-single-cuts/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more-9.html#post6591550

The conclusion is that newer Edwards are now completely Japan-made.

As for E-II being rebranded Edwards, I doubt that because E-II and Edwards offer different guitars. I mean, they could be made at the same facility and by the same people that Edwards are made, but it's not merely a rebranding.

I also want to point out that while some people say that E-II build quality seems to be inferior to that of the ESP Standard, it is unclear what ESP Standard they are comparing to, because people also claim that pre-2000s ESP Standard were much better instruments than, later ones; as well as early 2000s ESP were better than early 2010s. Therefore if someone is comparing a 1996 ESP Standard with a 2009 Edwards, that's an unfair comparison.
#12
Quote by andriusd
There is an unpdate on the whole Edwards made in China subject:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-single-cuts/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more-9.html#post6591550

The conclusion is that newer Edwards are now completely Japan-made.

As for E-II being rebranded Edwards, I doubt that because E-II and Edwards offer different guitars. I mean, they could be made at the same facility and by the same people that Edwards are made, but it's not merely a rebranding.

I also want to point out that while some people say that E-II build quality seems to be inferior to that of the ESP Standard, it is unclear what ESP Standard they are comparing to, because people also claim that pre-2000s ESP Standard were much better instruments than, later ones; as well as early 2000s ESP were better than early 2010s. Therefore if someone is comparing a 1996 ESP Standard with a 2009 Edwards, that's an unfair comparison.

The bottom line is that complete production of Edwards has returned to Japan after a brief interlude (at least 2009 maybe longer) when the initial phase of the manufacture (woodworking through painting) was done at the ESP China facility. While Edwards falls a little short of the Navagator line, the fit and finish are superb making Edwards guitars the most under-rated guitar brand in Japan. The bang-for-the-buck makes them one of the best buys around.

#13
I will say this much; I am happy to see the old "witches hat/teardrop" headstock on the Horizons again.

My only hold up about the E-II guitars being Edwards guitars under a pseudonym is that's a lot of coin to be paying for a rebadged mid-level guitar.

Honestly, if people gripe about the Q.C. of MIJ guitars; their expectations are too damn high.
That aside I'd be willing to bet good money even mediocre MIJ guitars would blow most American made axes outta the water.

However, the turn of phrase "the devil is in the details" comes to mind.
I will admit this; the E-II guitars do offer better hardware than the Edwards models, such as OFR's as opposed to licensed or special Floyds.

Once again, higher quality hardware won't make up for sub-par build quality.
There's a guitar center not far from my house, they used to stock at least six ESP "standards" at a time. Since the E-II line dropped they don't carry E-II guitars and have cut the number of LTD's they stock in half.

So legitimately I've never had the opportunity to play an E-II; but just that chosen moniker makes me suspicious that ESP is giving their U.S.D.M. clientele "the high hard one".
#14
Quote by andriusd
There is an unpdate on the whole Edwards made in China subject:
http://www.mylespaul.com/forums/other-single-cuts/43888-edwards-guitars-whole-story-more-9.html#post6591550

The conclusion is that newer Edwards are now completely Japan-made.

As for E-II being rebranded Edwards, I doubt that because E-II and Edwards offer different guitars. I mean, they could be made at the same facility and by the same people that Edwards are made, but it's not merely a rebranding.

I also want to point out that while some people say that E-II build quality seems to be inferior to that of the ESP Standard, it is unclear what ESP Standard they are comparing to, because people also claim that pre-2000s ESP Standard were much better instruments than, later ones; as well as early 2000s ESP were better than early 2010s. Therefore if someone is comparing a 1996 ESP Standard with a 2009 Edwards, that's an unfair comparison.


Thanks, I wasn't aware of that. That's very interesting indeed. That's pretty awesome if the Edwardses have moved back to Japan (assuming the pricing remains constant). Though also slightly annoying that I think I got one when they weren't 100% MIJ (and I thought they were when I bought it- still a nice guitar, of course, but I can't help feeling a bit miffed that feel that I was slightly misled).

I thought the EIIs had the FRT-x000 Floyds? EDIT: Maybe that's when they were called "LTD Elite"? Not certain. The EII I came across after a cursory internet search said "OFR", but then again it wouldn't be the first time I've seen an FRT-x000 described as an OFR either (though to be fair to ESP it also normally spells out when a trem is the FRT-x000 so maybe it is a genuine OFR).
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
Last edited by Dave_Mc at Dec 26, 2014,
#15
Speaking of older ESP's; back in '08 I had the opportunity to play a Eclipse-II.

It felt like I could've used it to knock down drywall; the thing was built like a brick s*it house.

There's still some NOS pre-2010 ESP standards floating around, you need to be REALLY looking for them but they're out there.

I guess I kinda "wanna go home" my first guitar was an EX-50 even for being an "entry level" model that thing was built like a tank.
A buddy of mine started out on a M-50 of that model I cannot say the same.

I keep eyeing the LTD Deluxe models; of which I find the vast majority tacky. I don't need more do I want a guitar with a bunch of glitter and gleam adorning it; when I see someone playing a really flashy guitar it makes me feel as though they're compensating for lack of ability or something (though this isn't always the case).

I realize the fuss is all over badging but if ESP could provide proof that they're not just selling re-badged Edwards I'd be more apt and or willing to "drink the coolaide" if you will.
#16
I don't know about E-II, but I know that Edwards uses FR-1000 and that's stated on their specs online.

My biggest problem with E-II is in regards to what they have done to the M-II model. No more solid finishes, no more bolt-on version, no more non-active pickups. They've narrowed down the choice of M-II models to 1. You can only choose from two finishes, and both are flames - which I am not a fan of. The sunburst one with the binding actually looks - visually - as it was an LTD guitar rather than ESP. Seriously, I played one and I didn't like it as much as I liked an older Standard. It just felt somehow cheaper to me. I mean, not worse, just fancier than it needs to be. It could have been purely a visual thing, but still.
#17
Quote by andriusd
I don't know about E-II, but I know that Edwards uses FR-1000 and that's stated on their specs online.


Yeah. That's what makes me wonder if it is a genuine OFR.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
Quote by Dave_Mc
Yeah. That's what makes me wonder if it is a genuine OFR.


You can email them (or 6-String.com) ask about it
#19
I don't actually want one though
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?