#1
hello people im a noob------i like my sound playing through a 4/12 cab but i only play in my house at very low volume i have a all tube blackstar ht-5r one 12" speaker combo with a extension cab input in the back ..im looking to add a high end 4x12 cab but need one that sounds good at low volume ..is it possible? i play metal and have lots of neighbors
#2
Quote by IRONMAIDEN666XX
all tube blackstar ht-5r
No amp from the HT series is all tube.

If you don't have one, how can you tell you prefer the sound of a 4x12"?
Is the speaker on the HT5 the stock one?

Cabs don't sound worse at low volumes.
If anything, they sound better at low volumes from a technical point of view.
It's the human ears who prefer the sound of stuff when it's turned up - see the fletcher-munson curves.

So, to make a cab sound "full" and "big" you have to turn up the volume and have the cab move a certain amount of air.

A 4x12" will be better than a 1x12" for the fullness, though it'll not be that much better, and for the money of a good cab you can get an amp much better than the HT5.
For the money of a good cab you could get 2.

Also if you have to play at whisper volumes all the times, you might wanna get a pod.
If you can reach the sound of someone talking at a very high volume, or at least a fairly high volume, get a different amp.
Name's Luca.

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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#3
A 4x12 is not going to be your cabinet of first choice when it comes to playing at low volumes in a room environment, sorry.

It took me a long time to figure this one out myself. But for home playing, I've ended up with a Pod HD modeler, a TwoNotes Torpedo C.A.B. cabinet and power amp modeler, and (get this) a pair of KRK Rokit 8 recording monitors. Leaving aside the modeler portion of the equation, the monitors only have 8" speakers for the low frequency side of things (and about 100W each for output power) but they're designed specifically for nearfield (small room, best reproduction at about 8' from the speaker). And to sound great at generally lower volumes.

Several problems with a 4x12. One, you don't really have enough power to drive it well with a 5W (yeah, I'm going to hear, "Fooey, mine sounds great!" from people). Two, a 4x12 beams treble. Anything above about 500Hz and you need to be directly online with the center axis of the cabinet to hear it accurately. In almost any room environment, you'll be at a 45 degree angle to the cabinet and a lot of what you'll hear will be lower end stuff and bounce from the hard walls and floor in the room.

My Rokits sit on a pair of stands that are about 45" off the floor (Ultimate Support MS-90's), and the stands are designed to isolate the speakers from the floor. This is a lot closer to ear level than you're going to get with any 4x12 sitting on the floor. That's going to make a major difference in your listening to your own playing. Even if you simply put your 1x12 on a stack of cinderblocks, you'll get better sound from it.

And finally, the PAIR of Rokits gives me that illusion of fullness, space and depth that you're trying for with a 4x12, especially in a small room. Separated by about 6-8', you get far more of what you want than you ever would with a 4x12. And finally, all that power in the Rokits goes toward producing accurate and full bottom end (not volume), something you simply can't do with 5W in a 4x12. You'll get more punch and more clean bottom out of those little 8" woofers than you EVER will with the 4x12 (which mostly drop off below 110Hz anyway).
#4
Quote by dspellman
And finally, all that power in the Rokits goes toward producing accurate and full bottom end (not volume)
I respectfully disagree - full bottom end, yes, but not even for my life I would use "accurate" to describe whatever characteristic of the Rokit's.

HS8's are accurate sounding monitors, Equator D8's are accurate sounding monitors.
KRK RP8's are flattering sounding monitors, which may be a good thing if you don't need accuracy since they make stuff sound more "exciting" than it actually does, though to me they sound like an overly bass heavy mush with no clarity and little mid range.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#5
very valuable info dudes but i been playing 10 years and i had many low end 4x12 cabs in my single room in a differant house with less neighbors and i like 4 speakers because of the fuller sound and i strickly play out of effects processors .......tho i know nothing about setting up to play out of monitor speakers and before i get my large chunk of cash end of september i want to learn ..but so im not off topic im looking for the best quietest way to play metal in my house without headphones...a blackstar ht-5r is not tube? why do i have a standby switch?
#6
also i had every type of combo amp except any over a grand and altho alot were good they just never sounded as full and rich as a 4x12 ...i only got rid of my last 4x12 because my son was born and i moved in a house with lots of tenents. just combos -to me-sound ...well goofy with just 1 speaker...to me atleast...but very interested in dspellmans solution seeing i plan on creating a small at home recording setup
#7
Quote by IRONMAIDEN666XX
a blackstar ht-5r is not tube? why do i have a standby switch?
Amps designed in an even half decent way don't need standby switches, they put them on amps for marketing purpose nowadays mostly.
People are used to see them that they think if a guitar amp has them it's an all tube amp, so they put it wherever they can.

Your amp has two tubes IIRC, one in the phase inverter and one in the power section.
Apart from that, the pre (where most of the distortion comes from in that amp among other things, again IIRC) is made of solid state stuff.
Quote by IRONMAIDEN666XX
but very interested in dspellmans solution seeing i plan on creating a small at home recording setup
Well if this is the case, I can't think of a better setup.

Though since you're using a computer you might as well use amp sims if ya fancy them.
Head to the sticky's in the recording section for more info.

If you don't need to power passive stuff (passive wedges for example) you don't even need a power amp as the vast majority of monitor speakers under $1k a pair are active.
And if you fancy the pod's cab simulations you also don't need the torpedo cab.

And if you want to mix/master/produce stuff, don't get KRK rokit's.
They're nice for making music sound relatively better, but you don't wanna mix with them, else your mixes will sound good on them and on nothing else.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#8
^actually the PI is SS, the preamp does have the one tube but there is additional clipping coming from SS shenanigans
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#9
Quote by Spambot_2
I respectfully disagree - full bottom end, yes, but not even for my life I would use "accurate" to describe whatever characteristic of the Rokit's.

HS8's are accurate sounding monitors, Equator D8's are accurate sounding monitors.
KRK RP8's are flattering sounding monitors, which may be a good thing if you don't need accuracy since they make stuff sound more "exciting" than it actually does, though to me they sound like an overly bass heavy mush with no clarity and little mid range.


Lovely and thanks for that critique.

We can go into all of that someday when we're talking about their use as recording monitors. As a powered speaker for playing guitar through a modeler in a small to medium size room, I think we'd both agree they're more than fine. Especially when compared to an HT5 through a random 4x12.
#10
Quote by IRONMAIDEN666XX
very valuable info dudes but i been playing 10 years and i had many low end 4x12 cabs in my single room in a differant house with less neighbors and i like 4 speakers because of the fuller sound and i strickly play out of effects processors .......tho i know nothing about setting up to play out of monitor speakers and before i get my large chunk of cash end of september i want to learn ..but so im not off topic im looking for the best quietest way to play metal in my house without headphones...a blackstar ht-5r is not tube? why do i have a standby switch?


What happened to "I'm a noob?"

Last edited by dspellman at Aug 26, 2014,
#11
Quote by dspellman
What happened to "I'm a noob?"


i am noob...when it comes to {recording equipment/interfaces/firewire/di boxes/powered/unpowerd moniters/reaper tutorials/XLR/balanced/unbalanced/mixers/midi/multitracking/line level} im totaly lost... but im willing to learn.
#12
Rockits are not accurate I own them. It's a mess...

What happened to "I'm a noob?"


Very funny ahah!
Last edited by Taz9 at Aug 27, 2014,
#13
isocab? would need to make sure the speaker has enough wattage. K100 is the answer.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

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#14
Quote by dspellman
As a powered speaker for playing guitar through a modeler in a small to medium size room, I think we'd both agree they're more than fine.
Well yeah, I did try and pointed it out with "KRK RP8's are flattering sounding monitors, which may be a good thing if you don't need accuracy since they make stuff sound more "exciting" than it actually does", though I felt like the rest needed clarifications.

Also as he pointed out later he would be using them for a "small at home recording setup", so it might be worth looking into something worth looking into for that application as well.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.