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#1
Now before anyone says something about my other which amp threads. This is not a which amp thread I am just simply wanting the communities opinion on 2 solid states the line 6 spider IV 75 vs the peavey bandit 112. Again this isn't a which amp thread thanks to all the help from my other thread I will be purchasing a Laney so this amp is just cause I'm curious
#2
There are good solid states and there are bad solid states.
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#3
^ that.

As with tube amps, some are good and some are bad.

Most solid state guitar amps are bad unfortunately though, and not the spider nor the bandit are stellar.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#5
The amps you mentioned are both cheap amps, so that's what a lot of people start on and they work fine for that. I wouldn't call either of them good amps. The spider has more sounds, the bandit has fewer but they tend to be nicer than the spider. Both are ok starter amps, not much beyond that.

Good solid states, depends on what you use it for, but Acoustic, Marshall Mosfet, Peavey Vypyr, Roland JCA, some of the old Peavey Choruses, Polytone, Pritchard, Lab, Tech 21 all have some SS models that are good for one thing or another. It's just that most SS amps tend to be cheap, so they're junk because they're cheaply made, not because they're solid state. Plenty of crap tube amps out there too.
#7
It's all subjective. It's not a question of fact.

Cube is a fine starter amp in the same vein as the Peavey vypyr or the vox valvetronix. Lots of options, decent sound, good bedroom players.
#8
I'm actually impressed I thought the only thing people would be saying is "SS suck get a tube" etc.
#9
Tube snobs will be tube snobs.
The Bandit is awesome. Sure a a great all tube amp might sound slightly better in isolation, but it's never 4-7 times better like it is in price. Tubes are only a few pence to make and the transformers too, what a rip off tube amps are.
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#10
Peavey Bandit in my opinion is a very respectable good amp compared to other SS's, especially the Spyder.
I rap for mill-i-ons, sesquipedalians.
#11
The Ampeg VH-140C, and its variants, are still one of the best amps ever made.
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#12
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#13
Quote by clcoleman15
I'm actually impressed I thought the only thing people would be saying is "SS suck get a tube" etc.

Lots of people are disappointed when the hate and strawmen they invent in their heads aren't nearly as common as they thought. The internet creates these extremist boogeymen for all sorts of topics. It's a product of the way we talk to ourselves on discussion sites.

The good news is, we get threads like this that are pretty reasonable and now we get to talk about amps and maybe some people realize that what they assumed was snobbery was actually just preference.


edit: And then there's Cath
#14
OK, I'll actually address the amps in question. I think the Bandit is a pile of shit - but they do make a very solid and reliable backup amp. The sort of thing you leave strapped into the back of the truck for those times when it's better than nothing.
The Spider you throw out of the back of the truck while it's moving down the freeway. The sound it makes as it bounces down the road is as good as it's gonna get.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
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Marshall 1960A
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Cathbard Amplification
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#15
-I started with an Orange solid state amp that usually sounded bad to me. I thought it sounded bad because I played bad (also true) but I eventually discovered that I'm not alone in thinking that they're bad.
-I got a kustom 16 for 20 bucks and it sounded better than the orange, but not by much.
-i had a vox amplug that only powers headphones, and it can make one sound that's okay i guess, mostly it's just bad.
-i made my own tube amp head from scrap parts. I'm proud of the work that went into it but to be honest it doesn't sound all that good either.
-i stumbled across a very cheap solid state roland micro-cube which i purchased last weekend, and it's the best of the lot so far.

But still - none of those amps compare to the beautiful sounds that came out of the fender deluxe reverb when i tried it. My daughter (4) embarassed me a little bit when she observed that i was 'playing better' when i was playing through that amp.
I also felt that the 5w Randall and the 15w Super Champ X2 were noticably better sounding than any of the solid states that i've tried (including Spyder, Mustang, and Valvetronix).

there may be some better solid state amps out there, but i haven't found one yet, whereas all of the tube amps that i've tried seemed to sound fairly good. I feel that the quality floor of tube amps is probably lower than the ceiling of solid states, but the tube range of quality is generally speaking higher than the range of quality for solid state.
#16
Quote by The Judist
Tube snobs will be tube snobs.
The Bandit is awesome. Sure a a great all tube amp might sound slightly better in isolation, but it's never 4-7 times better like it is in price. Tubes are only a few pence to make and the transformers too, what a rip off tube amps are.

Really? Have you ever built a tube amp or are you just talking out of your arse regarding the cost of parts?
I've built many (and several SS ones), and I am here to tell you that you're full of shit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#17
They are good starting amps that get you going, however, a tube amp is much better in the long haul.
#18
I heard the Roland jazz chorus is supposed to be one of the best if not the best solid state amp both brad Nowell of sublime and wes Borland of limp bizkit used it for their clean sounds. It also takes pedals very well.
#19
Quote by gambit1983
I heard the Roland jazz chorus is supposed to be one of the best if not the best solid state amp both brad Nowell of sublime and wes Borland of limp bizkit used it for their clean sounds. It also takes pedals very well.


they have excellent cleans, they are probably one of the more common clean amps in studio. the FenderTwin is the opposite, equally good just more lush and smooth and warm, unlike the JC which is sterile.

i own neither, but there is a middle ground. Musicman. hybrid. SS preap, tube power amp. Musicman is Leo Fender's company after fender.
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youre just being a jerk man.


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#20
Quote by Cathbard
Really? Have you ever built a tube amp or are you just talking out of your arse regarding the cost of parts?
I've built many (and several SS ones), and I am here to tell you that you're full of shit.


Agree, and to add to this:

http://www.runoffgroove.com/littlegem.html

Here is an example of a solid state amp that is about as simple as a solid state amp can get, and there's no transformer required anywhere. No output transformer because the 386 can drive a speaker directly. No power transformer because it is designed to run at 9v. Just use a 9 volt battery or repurpose a 9 volt power supply from some other device.
You can hear some sound clips if you'd like, (on the same website) and it sounds surprisingly good. I haven't priced it out but I think that the pcb might be the most expensive part and I'm thinking maybe 20 bucks in total for all the parts?

Now here is a very simple tube amp:

http://www.davidsonamp.com/sf/images/champ5c1.gif

It's a Fender Champ 5c1 and they don't get much simpler than this. 1 preamp tube, 1 power tube, 1 output transformer (necessary when using vacuum tubes) and 1 power transformer (also necessary) This amp costs a hell of a lot more than 20 dollars to build. In fact - the output transformer alone costs more than 20 dollars, and that's only if you source it from one of the cheaper vendors. The tubes cost 10-20 bucks apiece for the cheapest available, and all of the individual components cost more than the same part on a solid state amp because they all need to be rated for high voltage. A resistor that costs 9 cents on the solid state amp might cost 2$ on the tube amp, and the same mark-up can be (and often is) necessary on just about every part due to the higher voltage requirements.
Last edited by paul.housley.7 at Aug 28, 2014,
#21
Solid state (and digital) amps are pretty rocking for certain applications. For djent I can imagine anything better than a good modeler, I prefer solid-state clean tones, and some pretty iconic distorted tones have been made with solid-states. That being said, most folks generally prefer tube amps, they have a certain idea of how an electric guitar should sound and the fact is that sound is a good tube amp.

I know I love my tubes, but that doesn't mean I'll write off the other technologies.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#22
For me solid states amps works only in small amps...

Try Roland ones... The cube series... But remember, the small ones!!!
#23
Quote by paul.housley.7
A
Now here is a very simple tube amp:
It's a Fender Champ 5c1 and they don't get much simpler than this. 1 preamp tube, 1 power tube, 1 output transformer (necessary when using vacuum tubes) and 1 power transformer (also necessary) This amp costs a hell of a lot more than 20 dollars to build. In fact - the output transformer alone costs more than 20 dollars, and that's only if you source it from one of the cheaper vendors.


This is all true if you're going to build a one-off and you're going to source from retail vendors. If you're Fender, your costs are right around 10% of the actual sell price of the item. That's true whether the item is tube-based or solid state.
#24
Yeah, but everything scales accordingly. It's cost me less to build a 100W SS bass amp than a 20W tube guitar amp. I may be paying more for the parts than say, Fender, but the relative costs remain.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#25
Quote by danielburgos
For me solid states amps works only in small amps...



I only have large ones. One is a 1971 Carvin with 275W. The cabinet that went with this thing is huge, a 4' tall x 30" wide closed back ported monster with a pair of 15" Altec Lansing 418-8A speakers and a mids/high horn.

My bass amp is a 1500W (solid state, natch) buttkicker.
I play guitar through a modeler and the keys and modeler go into a mixer and into a 1500W power amp and from there into a pair of 900W full range speaker cabs. Honestly, solid state works very well in large doses, too.
#26
Quote by Cathbard
Yeah, but everything scales accordingly. It's cost me less to build a 100W SS bass amp than a 20W tube guitar amp. I may be paying more for the parts than say, Fender, but the relative costs remain.


No question that solid state is less expensive, more powerful, lighter weight, etc., than tube stuff. Guitarists are pretty much the only notable segment of the population that really use it. A 1500W solid state amp head (without wooden case) weighs in at 9-10 pounds. I have a relatively lightweight 100W tube rackmount power amp that weighs 25 lbs. I've also got a 1x12 100W combo that weighs over 60 lbs.

And finally, tube stuff is generally more delicate than solid state amps. Heavy transformers can bend chassis (or pull free completely), tubes can break, etc. Tubes can fail with no notice at any time. It's relatively straightforward to fix, but that's a bit of a pyrrhic advantage.
#27
all of my solid state amps are old big ones, they sound great imo
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#28
i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.
#29
Quote by kurtebirdi
i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.


Bro do you even Kemper?
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
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Line 6 Pod HD500X
#30
Quote by The Judist
Sure a a great all tube amp might sound slightly better in isolation, but it's never 4-7 times better like it is in price.
My (tube) amp cost me less than whatever peavey bandit I can find now.
And I also think it sounds better...
Quote by The Judist
Tubes are only a few pence to make and the transformers too
Well ideally yes, but the parts are not the only expense in building an amp, and a good transformer alone costs more than a bandit, sssooo...
Quote by MatrixClaw
The Ampeg VH-140C, and its variants, are still one of the best amps ever made.
The variants were made a bit on the cheap-er, though I agree on the VH-140C.
Ammmaazing amp.
Quote by kurtebirdi
solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them).
While this is pretty elitist, it's true IMO.

Apart from the last sentence, which is only elitist.
Quote by Offworld92
Bro do you even Kemper?
Oww come on, even a kemper doesn't really sound as the amp it's copying.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#31
Kemper can fool anyone listening with their eyes closed, easily. I mean considering what year we're in, that's pretty damn impressive. Does it sound exactly the same? Maybe not exactly the same. But kurtebirdi is full of shit regardless.

Jury's still out on the feel though.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#32
Quote by Offworld92
Kemper can fool anyone listening with their eyes closed, easily.
*cough* ahem *cough cough* eeeeehhh...

I mean, it has a lot of advantages - a looot of advantages, though I don't really think the sound's the same.
Or the feel, whatever the difference is.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Aug 29, 2014,
#33
The Bandit is a really solid amp and IT IS incredible for the price. And the sheer diversity of tones it can do is quite amazing. It's far more than just a "starter amp", particularly in terms of distortion.
#34
Quote by kurtebirdi
i think there's an important distinction to be made between solid states and modelling amps. solid state amps are built to be good amplifiers in their own right where modeling amplifiers use computers to imitate other amplifiers and because of their digital nature lose the more natural feeling sound of a normal amplifier's analog signal. modeling amplifiers will never sound as good as the real deal (and i personally detest them)

solid state amps are played by a lot of jazz players and in some metal as they do cleans and ubergain well. tube clipping is something people who play just about everything in between covet though which is why tube amplifiers are so desirable.


Horse manure. I have about 15 tube amps and have used them for years. Love them to death. I've got tube preamps that have nine 12AX7 tubes, 11 gain stages, four channels, half a dozen FX loops and more. I've got Bruce Egnater tube amps that have interchangeable tube modules (they predate the Randall setups that license that tech from Bruce) that are, essentially, tube based modelers. I've also had solid state amps since the original Vox Super Beatle. And, of course, now have a number of Pods and the Axe-FX Ultra, plus three Variax guitars.

As a keyboard player (I started on classical pipe organ), I had to listen to a lot of elitist nonsense about how an electronic keyboard could never hold a candle to a german grand, etc., often from people who'd never touched a german grand. These days, it's a rare pianist who's NOT playing (and appreciating) a Korg or a Yamaha or a Nord, etc. electronic keyboard. My Korg Kronos X even has the ability to mimic how much the top cover of the grand is open. More than that, I can control the breath effects of a tenor sax performance (to say nothing of the dynamics).

I have a Torpedo C.A.B. which can not only easily duplicate tube clipping, but can also model a particular power amp (EL34, EL84, 6L6, etc.). And you can play those differences in the same way that you do with a "real" tube amp.

My suggestion is that you simply haven't kept up.

Walking into a guitar shop and flipping through the demo presets for 10 minutes is a far cry from actually using the digital units. Heck, even people like Neal Schon (famous tube amp owner) and Metallica had factory personnel come out to help them set up their modelers (in this case, Axe-FX) for touring. Once you've gotten into them, however, things change.

I still have half a dozen tube amps in my den. The rest (including four 4x12s) sit in storage, awaiting rotation. But they rarely go to play out these days.
Last edited by dspellman at Aug 29, 2014,
#35
Like Dspellman I have owned a series of tube and solid state amps over a lot of years. My first SS was a VOX Royal Guardsman and at the time I thought it sounded great (wish I still had it). I then had a Fender Twin (excellent amp but too heavy with JBL spkrs.) then a Marshal (that blew tubes every few months, but it beat up when I bought it), then a Peavey Mace tube amp and since then a series of SS amps. The past few years I have been using a VOX VT30 and VT50 they are light, portable and very good sounding. Whatever amp you have will sound different in every club you play in. Those subtle warm tones from tube amps won't be noticed above the noise from the bar. Buy what works for the kind of playing you do. If you only play one style you can find the amp that works for you but maybe not for next guy. Some of comments here come off like "everyone should get what I have" instead of reliable information..
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Aug 29, 2014,
#36
SS suck get a tube
Quote by Cathbard
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Unless its electronic drums.

BURN THE WITCH!!!!!
#37
Quote by QOTSA-SFTD
Peavey Bandit in my opinion is a very respectable good amp compared to other SS's, especially the Spyder.


Funny, I got one. I don't use it anymore cause I ****ing shocked me twice.
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Line 6 JTV 69s
Squier Classic Bibe Telecaster Thinline
#38
Quote by Cathbard
Really? Have you ever built a tube amp or are you just talking out of your arse regarding the cost of parts?
I've built many (and several SS ones), and I am here to tell you that you're full of shit.


Also you can buy a jet city for less than a peavey bandit. at least here in the UK you can.

I've never actually tried a bandit properly. I did try one once when I was thinking of getting my marshall avt, but i was an idiot and didn't understand the pre and post gain knobs. To be fair, peavey's labelling is very confusing, especially if you're a pretty new player.

I'd be the first to agree that not all tube amps are good, and that not all SS amps are bad. But as colin said, ss tends to be used for cheap starter amps, while tube tends to be used for more expensive amps, so more often than not tube is better. at least for the tones i want.

there are also some pretty cool tricks you can do with tube amps which tend not to work as well with SS- boosting, stacking pedal and amp dirt, etc etc.

it's like most things... there are some snobs, but there are also some anti-snobs, too. I'm not sure either is more sensible.

Saying you prefer tube to SS doesn't necessarily mean you're a snob.

Quote by Offworld92

Jury's still out on the feel though.


Quote by crownegamers
I saw in a couple of pictures that on Bucketheads Les Paul (only some pictures) that his neck pickup is painted in white. Can anyone explain to me why he would do this, and if there are any pros and cons.

Quote by dspellman
The guy wears a KFC Bucket and a white mask during performances, and you're interested in the color of his pickup covers?

Last edited by Dave_Mc at Aug 29, 2014,
#39
Quote by Spambot_2
*cough* ahem *cough cough* eeeeehhh...

I mean, it has a lot of advantages - a looot of advantages, though I don't really think the sound's the same.
Or the feel, whatever the difference is.


Come on now, if you say that's not close enough for recording, you're just lying to yourself.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk7GexV_TF0
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#40
Quote by Dave_Mc
Also you can buy a jet city for less than a peavey bandit. at least here in the UK you can.

I've never actually tried a bandit properly. I did try one once when I was thinking of getting my marshall avt, but i was an idiot and didn't understand the pre and post gain knobs. To be fair, peavey's labelling is very confusing, especially if you're a pretty new player.

I'd be the first to agree that not all tube amps are good, and that not all SS amps are bad. But as colin said, ss tends to be used for cheap starter amps, while tube tends to be used for more expensive amps, so more often than not tube is better. at least for the tones i want.

there are also some pretty cool tricks you can do with tube amps which tend not to work as well with SS- boosting, stacking pedal and amp dirt, etc etc.

it's like most things... there are some snobs, but there are also some anti-snobs, too. I'm not sure either is more sensible.

Saying you prefer tube to SS doesn't necessarily mean you're a snob.




The Bandit was a pretty fun amp when I used it. The voicings on it let you cover all ground of any type of music you want to play.
There's a knob on there which allows you to change the dynamics of the amplifier to emulate the response of a tube amp. It's interesting.

It's not the best but it's not bad.
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Line 6 JTV 69s
Squier Classic Bibe Telecaster Thinline
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