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#1
I personally would like to be able to shred, however I hear people saying a lot of negative things about it.
For instance a lot of people say it doesn't take any musical talent and it is just a skill you develop through muscle memory if you practice long enough.
I even see comments on Youtube videos of people saying things like "even a person who was born deaf could probably learn to shred without ever hearing a song in his life.", or "This just gets old after the 1st few times."
Does everyone feel this way?

Also I am not asking this to decide whether I want to learn to do it or not because I will learn it regardless, but I just want to see what everyone thinks.
#3
in general? i take it by a case by case basis really. for example

guthrie govan? worst ever
not guthrie govan? probably bad but we'll see
i don't know why i feel so dry
#4
shredding is super dumb and doesn't even sound good

guthrie govan is supreme dumb-dumb
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#7
I don't know if the other posts are being sarcastic or not xD and the muscle memory thing is for every technique. Wouldn't say shredding is bad, but playing sloppy really is bad.
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hard
#9
But why shred when you can do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxwWC0uc_Vg
Don't get me wrong, (I love Gilbert and co.) but there's more to life than light-speed penatonic/harmonic minor shtick.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#10
Quote by AlanHB
Some is good, some is bad. The worst examples usually ignore melody in favour of speed.

Scarified is one of my favs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9YaBShFW0co


I've dreamt about Paul Gilbert.
Twice.
..
I hate the word "shred". It has connotations with being fast for the sake of being fast and lacking emotion when in reality some of the guitarists defined as "shredders" have some real emotive music. PG being a great example, Jason Becker another, Dimebag Darrel, Marty Friedman, Steve Vai..
As Yngwie put it, if it sounds good, it's good. Speed is irrelevant.
On playing the Paul Gilbert signature at the guitar store extensively, my missus sighed:
"Put it down now, It's like you love that guitar more than me!"
In Which I replied.
"Well it has got two F-Holes!"
#11
I respect them. I just generally don't like it.

It takes a lot of practice. some people might say "anyone can do it, all you have to do is practice enough." Well that makes it sound easy, but practicing enough is hard as shit also.

But art is art. It is expression, it is flow and stuff like that. How it moves you. Not just acrobatics.

I find breakdancing is a good analogy. Some things in breakdancing are very difficult, and require a lot of practice, a lot of strength and a lot of power.

You always get some guys that do very difficult moves, and you get some guys that string a number of very difficult moves all in a row, and some people love it, and they think they are awesome. Now, those moves are difficult and impressive, and they have every right to feel a great sense of accomplishment to be able to do that, and I like to be able to see it, but the art aspect is kind of missing. It is not dancing at that point, but it is gymnastics.

And that's ok, it just is what it is.

Shredding I find is that way. Guys shred and people are blown away, and they worked real hard to achieve something real difficult, and I can definitely appreciate and respect that.

But I love music for music. I love art. Acrobatics are difficult and cool to watch, and it is great some people managed such difficult things, and we can experience them, but my favourite music, is music that moves me.

I think this is rare with shredding but possible. The thing is, you can't make beautiful artistic moving music by spamming 16th notes all the time, even if you're all over the place in terms of pitches, arpeggios, scales and what have you. Rhythm is important, I find, and straight shredding quickly gets monotonous.

But, it is possible to be capable of shredding and throwing in some shred here and there, but still being very artistic and creating. The thing about that is though, you have to spend a lot of time practicing shredding, a lot of effort developing a very difficult skill, and then only use is sparingly afterwards. That's not an easy thing to do, especially when you often get great feedback from people who love the speed, and the flare, and the acrobatics, and care less about art and expression, and the movement and flow of music.

There are all kinds of musicians, and music lovers. Make the music you love, and try to get a following of people that are like you. It's all good.

But anyone who says that it is just something anyone can do if they practice enough, I don't think appreciates well enough the fact that someone actually did it, and actually put the time in, and effort in. And I think people deserve respect for achievements like that, even if it's not your favourite thing.
#13
I recognise that they have practiced for a really long time.

That's where my respect ends. And I don't even know if it goes that far.
superman is killing himself tonight
#14
Typically I don't like shredding but I will make exceptions like zakk wylde and dimebag because they have their own style rather than just doing lighting fast pentatonics (kerry king)or drowning their pentatonics in wah (kirk hammet). And contrary to popular belief it does take talent to shred. And every one has those days where you want to blindly flail around on your fretboard as fast as you can to make the jazz band teacher mad
My main axe is made from the crucifix, strung with barbed wire, and tuned to z standard then i use a boss metal zone, gain 10, into a line 6, bass 10, mid 0, treble 10, this is the only way to be truly brootal
#15
Quote by captainsnazz
quite possibly the most horrifying thing i have heard in my entire life

I guess u could say it scarified u hehehe
banned
#16
The people who I respect most are people who can play ridiculous shred..


...and then don't.

Some people make shredding incredibly musical, but that's a very small list.
All I want is for everyone to go to hell...
...It's the last place I was seen before I lost myself



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Last edited by ChemicalFire at Aug 29, 2014,
#18
Quote by fingrpikingood

I think this is rare with shredding but possible. The thing is, you can't make beautiful artistic moving music by spamming 16th notes all the time, even if you're all over the place in terms of pitches, arpeggios, scales and what have you.


Sure you can. Listen to Bach, he spams 16ths all the time.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#19
It has a place for it. I don't disrespect shredding, but to me it's more about what you say and do with it. I shake my head at anyone that slags GG though. I stood 2 feet from him when he and the Aristocrats played in Houston, and hung out with him afterwards for about 30 minutes afterwards in the pub. In my opinion Erotic Cakes is the best Instrumental album of note since Joe Satriani Surfing With the Alien.

I think his range and depth is extraordinary, and while he does sometimes over play, his worst overplay is better than almost any other shredder on their best day. And I don't think he overplayed on Erotic Cakes, but many versions of him doing it live...are much less enjoyable to me.

To each their own.

Best,

Sean
#20
Quote by Jet Penguin
Sure you can. Listen to Bach, he spams 16ths all the time.

Just because Bach did it doesn't mean it's 'beautiful' either.
superman is killing himself tonight
#21
Respect shredders? I respect the sheer determination required to lock themselves in a closet for years to develop extraordinary technical skills. Do I want to listen to them play? Rarely. I have moments where I need some Satch or Govan, and I appreciate Dimebag's ferocity but they represent 1% of my music listening.

When a player chooses technique over music they lose the plot IMO.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#22
Most "shredders" play in genres of music that don't interest me.

I feel that, in general, "shredders" tend to be interested in technical things that I don't care about. I recognize the skill on display, but it's not music I want to listen to. Every so often I'll hear someone who is doing more than just playing fast, but since I don't listen to those genres music very often by choice, that happens extremely rarely.
#23
Shred is cool. It can EASILY be melodic and fast. Listen to Perpetual Burn by Jason Becker. Theres TONS of emotion, for example, listen to the part just before the tapping starts. Its also the fastest ****ing song I have ever heard. I often see people criticize shredders as "bad musicians". Listen to soothsayer by buckethead, and then Far Beyond The Sun by Malmsteen. Even if you only play the slower parts, those songs are musical masterpieces. I see so much meaningless, stupid criticism. "He's just moving up and down the fretboard, it's nothing musical or creative" Of COURSE he's moving up and down the fretboard, thats how the fretboard works. "It's just a bunch of notes!" Opposed to what? Do your favourite artists use no notes? You can get a special sadness with slow music that cannot be created with shred, but theres this energy that cannot be created with anything but shred. Playing billions of notes a minute constantly would get boring FAST, but I've never heard a shredder do that. Even the fastest, like Steve Vai and Malmsteen, they always play their shred parts between slower parts, creating a dynamic contrast between fast and slow. Which is what shred is REALLY about.
#24
Shred is cool. It can EASILY be melodic and fast. Listen to Perpetual Burn by Jason Becker. Theres TONS of emotion, for example, listen to the part just before the tapping starts. Its also the fastest ****ing song I have ever heard. I often see people criticize shredders as "bad musicians". Listen to soothsayer by buckethead, and then Far Beyond The Sun by Malmsteen. Even if you only play the slower parts, those songs are musical masterpieces. I see so much meaningless, stupid criticism. "He's just moving up and down the fretboard, it's nothing musical or creative" Of COURSE he's moving up and down the fretboard, thats how the fretboard works. "It's just a bunch of notes!" Opposed to what? Do your favourite artists use no notes? You can get a special sadness with slow music that cannot be created with shred, but theres this energy that cannot be created with anything but shred. Playing billions of notes a minute constantly would get boring FAST, but I've never heard a shredder do that. Even the fastest, like Steve Vai and Malmsteen, they always play their shred parts between slower parts, creating a dynamic contrast between fast and slow. Which is what shred is REALLY about.
#25
I hate "shredding" as a term. It either sounds good or it doesn't, speed is irrelevant. There are fast players who play very musically, just as there's slow players who do nothing but repeat 4 blues licks over and over again.

That said, there are certain emotions you can't evoke without playing fast, and there's certain emotions you can't evoke without playing slow. There's a time and place for everything.
#26
Speaking from experience: the better you develop your technique, the more choices you have in making music. Listen to Beethoven moonlight sonata 3rd movement.
#27
Depends. So many guitarists trying to learn to play fast for no real reason and that often the motivation is to show off rather than to express their music. I think real fast notes often doesn't sound very good on guitar and that there's a reason many bands use other instruments for things like fast arpeggios rather than sweep.
#28
As with any style of music, some are good and some are bad, it depends on who listens. For example i have personally never found Rusty Cooley, MAB or Paul Gilbert (his solo work, not with Mr Big or Racer X) that interesting, but i enjoy listening to players like Steve Vai, Marco Sfogli and Neil Zaza from time to time.

As with anything, over-saturation can often lead to boredom. That is one of the many reasons i listen to all kinds of stuff, so when i come back to one style it sounds fresh and new again.
Fusion and jazz musician, a fan of most music.

Quote by Guthrie Govan
“If you steal from one person it's theft, and if you steal from lots of people it's research”


Quote by Chick Corea
"Only play what you hear. If you don't hear anything, don't play anything."
#29
Here's the thing with music: if it sounds good, it is good. If it doesn't, it isn't.
I dislike the sound of 95+% of shredding out there. Give me a BB King solo anytime.

I respect the discpline it takes to become a shred-guitarist, but music is emotion first of all. If you lack that, I couldn't care less how fast you can play.

That said, there are plenty of exceptions. Beyond the obvious Vais and Satrianis, I can't help be a fan of this man's playing. If you can play with such emotion, hold back on the rough stuff for a while, use short fast licks within slow melodic parts, then - and this is key - use the shredding to further the emotion of the solo - then hats off to you, sir. The song itself is somewhat cheesy (indeed, the entire band is..), so you might want to skip to 9min55.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BKHCIVzV38

Quote by fingrpikingood
The thing about that is though, you have to spend a lot of time practicing shredding, a lot of effort developing a very difficult skill, and then only use is sparingly afterwards. That's not an easy thing to do, especially when you often get great feedback from people who love the speed, and the flare, and the acrobatics, and care less about art and expression, and the movement and flow of music.


Very well said.
#30
Also I didn't start this trying to say that shredders are the most musical gifted people to walk the earth, I too feel that shredding is more of a skill than a musical talent.
The reason I want to learn is because I want to improve my technical ability on the guitar.
I also hate when I see people say these 12 year old shredders on youtube are musical prodigies because again I see it more of a skill that you will pick up if you practice long enough, and they usually play other peoples songs with no improv at all. However I still respect the fact that they practiced that long to get there.
#31
at the first 4 posts
Quote by Nelsean
Lil B, the young based god, has the ability to create music so profound, that others around him cannot even comprehend his magnificent verbal progressive nature.

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#32
The rule for these threads should be "if you say 'x' band or player sucks, you must list what you think is great music".....because others will instantly shoot it down lol


As always this is purely subjective. What does "shred" mean? Personally I dont put Paul Gilbert and Michael Angelo Batio in anything close to the same category. IMO Gilbert is WAY more musical and is a much better songwriter. I remember having the Michael Angelo Nitro "OFR" album back in the day, I couldnt listen to more than 5 minutes at a time.

I suppose in the end it comes down to that fact, a great song is a great song is a great song is a........


This---->"anyone can shred." I doubt it lol. If one feels this way Id like to see them back that up by linking to THEIR recorded shred solo and then also their recording of what they feel is "real" music. I promise that anything any1 can post can be torn apart just like Halen/Vai/Gilbert are torn apart even thought they are great.


Quote by Jet Penguin
But why shred when you can do this?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nxwWC0uc_Vg
Don't get me wrong, (I love Gilbert and co.) but there's more to life than light-speed penatonic/harmonic minor shtick.



But to some people that IS "shred." lol. Also, you have to admit, there is such a thing as "jazz shtick," yes?

If we want to go back into history, where do we put Coltrane and Charlie Parker? if THAT isnt shred, then what is??

So again,its all subjective. To some people Coltrane and Parker are saints and, yes, there are actual religions based on their music lol (Yardbird Temple etc)

But to others the music of Coltrane, Parker, Ornette Coleman and other jazz greats is just pure meaningless drivel. Just like some people love Stravinsky but to others its torture

Where do we put Paganini? or Chopin and Liszt? Again, they are shredders all the way.

--------

for every "shredder" who plays fast nonmusical crap, they are 100 guys who play slow nonmusical crap
#34
Quote by ls2014
Also I didn't start this trying to say that shredders are the most musical gifted people to walk the earth, I too feel that shredding is more of a skill than a musical talent.
The reason I want to learn is because I want to improve my technical ability on the guitar.
I also hate when I see people say these 12 year old shredders on youtube are musical prodigies because again I see it more of a skill that you will pick up if you practice long enough, and they usually play other peoples songs with no improv at all. However I still respect the fact that they practiced that long to get there.



Haha I so agree with this comment this girl is a technical prodigy, but even she looks bored playing this piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1B4pZBmI_gU

Her blank facial expressions are priceless, but if you go onto look at the video of her playing the Comfortably Numb solo you can see that she's actually enjoying it even she hates wanking.

Anyways SHR3D 0N D00DS


Last edited by Black_devils at Aug 30, 2014,
#35
The greats emphasize melody and harmony over speed, imho. So...that knocks Yngwie Malmsteen and Michael Angelo Batio out of the greats.
#36
Quote by Black_devils


Her blank facial expressions are priceless, but if you go onto look at the video of her playing the Comfortably Numb solo you can see that she's actually enjoying it even she hates wanking.

Anyways SHR3D 0N D00DS



Haha, awesome vid. But really, how could you not be bored playing that piece?
#37
You're pretty stupid if you don't respect 'shredders'. Like them or not, they've spent hours practicing, and because of it, they're more skilled than 99% of guitarists. You can moan and say *insert generic blues player here* has more soul and heart, or whatever, but you can't deny skill.
#38
Quote by fingrpikingood



it is possible to be capable of shredding and throwing in some shred here and there, but still being very artistic and creating. The thing about that is though, you have to spend a lot of time practicing shredding, a lot of effort developing a very difficult skill, and then only use is sparingly afterwards. That's not an easy thing to do, especially when you often get great feedback from people who love the speed, and the flare, and the acrobatics, and care less about art and expression, and the movement and flow of music.


this is how I feel too


for instance, I will play canon or air along to the slow classical recordings, this seems way harder to me to get the feeling and perfect vibrato than to play the rock wank versions, some would argue the rock versions are harder, but they seem pretty easy to me by comparison. I guess putting the shred time in helped but still, being fast is a long way from being good..
Last edited by Tempoe at Aug 30, 2014,
#39
Quote by CelestialGuitar
You're pretty stupid if you don't respect 'shredders'. Like them or not, they've spent hours practicing, and because of it, they're more skilled than 99% of guitarists. You can moan and say *insert generic blues player here* has more soul and heart, or whatever, but you can't deny skill.



They're skilled because they can play up, and down scale patterns really fast? I consider a skilled musician to be able to play a wide variety of different musical styles. Yeah having chops are great, but what's the point of having chops like that if you can't even apply it to make music. Someone I'd consider to be a genuinely skilled musician is Tim Pierce. The man has chops, but he can also play a wide variety of styles from blues all the way to metal, and Jazz here's a video of him improvising a solo for a session.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3G7TR2A7yg&list=UUOiLMDayizHVJUSLPauoLQQ


Anyone can build chops if they really put the time, and effort into it. All you have to do is turn on a metronome, and play a scale to a comfortable rate then when you can play it perfectly at "Said" speed then you bump it up 5 BPM continue; this process for the next couple of years everyday, and you'll have great chops.


I do have respect for their chops, but having chops doesn't mean a thing if you can't make music out of it.


Last edited by Black_devils at Aug 30, 2014,
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