#1
Hey there. I'm wondering whether any of you gear gurus could recommend me an amplifier which fits these quite specific requirements.




I'm looking for a combo amplifier with this type of bi-directional slant for monitoring at small non-PA'd gigs. Something between 20 and 50 watts would be suitable and valve preferred.

So far I can only find cabinets (rather than combos) which have this design, or suggestions to use tilt enabling amp stands which accomplish a similar effect. I'd rather avoid these stands however as I want to have the amp both facing my ears and the audiences, and not just divert the sound from one at the expense of the other.

Any suggestions would be much appreciated!
Are You Shpongled..?
#2
I think some of the new Randalls have a slanted baffle.

EDIT: Randall RD40C. Seems a tad pricey for what it is (not having a proper speaker stock).
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

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Last edited by Offworld92 at Sep 2, 2014,
#3
I run my combo on an angled stand and it works perfectly. I mike my amp up but the sound guy rarely has to put anything through FoH because it fills the venue by itself; even though it is pointing directly at my head. Don't stress about it. Forget this "slanted baffle" nonsense, buy the combo you like and stick it on a stand.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#4
Yeah, buy a 4x12 cab and run your amp/combo through it. A 2x12 combo will get you closest, but will not have the sound dispersion of a 4x12 angled cab
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#5
I used my 1960A underneath my RM100 at first but quickly realised that it was a WOFTAM. Replacing the 1960A with an angled stand was more than satisfactory. The RM100 is a closed back cabinet which helps though. My JCM900 combo (open backed) really needed the 1960A under it but the RM100, not so much (not at all really).
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Sep 2, 2014,
#6
Cath your just getting old and size doesn't matter as much only that it still works
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#7

The fact that the RM100 and the 1960A wouldn't fit in my car was certainly a factor too.
The JCM900 and 1960A fit fine but the RM100 is substantially larger than the JCM900. I wasn't going to hook up my trailer for no benefit.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#8
Quote by nugiboy
Hey there. I'm wondering whether any of you gear gurus could recommend me an amplifier which fits these quite specific requirements.
I'm looking for a combo amplifier with this type of bi-directional slant for monitoring at small non-PA'd gigs. Something between 20 and 50 watts would be suitable and valve preferred.

So far I can only find cabinets (rather than combos) which have this design, or suggestions to use tilt enabling amp stands which accomplish a similar effect. I'd rather avoid these stands however as I want to have the amp both facing my ears and the audiences, and not just divert the sound from one at the expense of the other.


I'd suggest that the reason you don't see a lot of amps with this kind of setup is that it's not really as useful as you think it might be. A better understanding of speaker dynamics will tell you why.

A 12" speaker by itself (just one) has a pretty wide dispersion of sound, but it will beam a bit, depending on the diameter of the cone (in this case, about 10.3"). The formula is 13,500 (the speed of sound in inches) divided by the diameter of the cone (10.3") = the frequency, in Hz, at which beaming begins to become apparent. That's roughly 1310 Hz, and that's really not bad. FWIW, the fundamental frequencies of a guitar start at around 82Hz (the low open E or "E2") and run up to around E6, the 24th fret on the high open E string, around 1318 Hz. There are harmonics, of course above all of those, and most 12" guitars are capable of reproducing up to around 4000-4500Hz.

Put TWO 12" speakers together, even if one of them is slightly slanted away from the other, and you actually get LESS dispersion and more beaming, and counterintuitively, it's in the direction where you'd expect MORE. That's because two speakers act like a larger speaker when they're close to each other. So a pair of 12" speakers with a couple of inches between them will actually act more like, say, a single 26" speaker. In one direction, they'll begin to beam down around 520 Hz. That's down around the 7th fret on the high E string. If you set up this 2x12 as a vertical column, you'll get wide dispersion side to side, but not great dispersion above and below. Even if one of the speakers is slightly tilted.

Put FOUR 12" speakers together in a square (like a 4x12) and you'll get beaming treble beginning below 500Hz all round. Anyone on axis with a 4x12 knows you get ice-pick treble, while the guitarist, who's usually at about 45 degrees OFF axis, thinks he sounds great.

But wait, there's more. Put that 2x12 sideways on the floor, and you'll get acoustic coupling that will actually magnify the bottom end a bit, but it can also make your bottom end muddy, not very tight. You're getting less dispersion side to side (so if you're trying to cover a wide area of audience, it's not the best choice).

There's still more. If you're on a low stage and your amp is on the floor, your sound (and particularly your treble) will be eaten by the first 10 rows of your audience. If you're not miking your amp, and if your amp is on the floor, the middle of the audience is going to get base, drums, some voices (because they're coming through a PA system that's probably on stands over their heads) and you're going to suck wind. Been there, sucked.

So what's the best way to do this?

The better amp stands on the market will get your amp up where you can hear it and where your audience has a chance. Most pros put their amps up on road cases if they have them, but the amp stand that has worked best for me in this situation is something like this (this one's an Onstage RS 7000). Cheaper than a road case, folds flat, gets the amp up where you can reach the controls, reduces acoustic coupling, gives the best vertical dispersion (though not necessarily the best side to side dispersion if you're going to put your speakers side by side):

#9
I've got a very similar amp stand as that. However, the RM100 weighs a metric shitload so I have to use it on the lowest height setting. Still works just fine though.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#10
Quote by Cathbard

The fact that the RM100 and the 1960A wouldn't fit in my car was certainly a factor too.
The JCM900 and 1960A fit fine but the RM100 is substantially larger than the JCM900. I wasn't going to hook up my trailer for no benefit.

Should have bought your dads sweet Cougar, your 1960 in the trunk an dthe RM in the back seat with your 2 guitars. You Aussies are hellaresorceful
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#11
how sturdy are them stands?...looks effective...but would hate to see one of my combos fall off
Randall RM100(Recto/KH-2/XTC)
Peavey 5150 212
Peavey 6505+112(head)
Peavey VTM 120
Peavey Windsor
Crate GX-130C
Randall RG100ES
Randall RH300G3
Randall RX120RH
POD HD500
#12
Yeah, but we Aussies often run our cars on LPG, which the Cougar is on too. So there's the boot space gone. Loading shit into the back seat of a coupe is an ordeal too. A stand and my Falcon is a far more satisfactory solution.
What I really need is another van. But even then, the RM100 on a stand pumps out an awesome sound all by itself. I prefer to impress people with my playing and my tone than the size of my rig.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#13
I run effectively a vertical 3x12 on stage (a combo on top of a vertical 2x12 cab).
Would love to get a 2x12 combo and another cab to make a 6x12 tower of power
ZEN JUDDHISM
The new solo project, and spiritual philosophy... Album out now !
----------------------------------------------------------
hybrid 6.0
Debut album 'Silent Destruction' out now
Read the Two Guys Metal review here
#14
Quote by teamscorpions
how sturdy are them stands?...looks effective...but would hate to see one of my combos fall off


It looks a bit spindly, I know. I've got about a 75 lb combo (single EV-L 12", 100W EL34s) on that stand, and it's been fine for a lot of years. It's supposed to handle 150 lbs.

The worst stage amp accident I've been near has been when an extremely toasted female careened across a "stage" (actually a raised platform about a foot higher than the dance floor) and crashed into a stack. She actually broke the fall of the head with her body (ouch), but the transformers still bent the chassis and a couple of tubes broke. She was back the next night, which made everyone a bit nervous.
#15
They're a lot more stable if you run them on the lowest setting. My RM100 weighs 90lb and it overbalances the stand if you extend it but run low it's quite sturdy really.


Quote by The Judist
I run effectively a vertical 3x12 on stage (a combo on top of a vertical 2x12 cab).
Would love to get a 2x12 combo and another cab to make a 6x12 tower of power

Like this?



That's what I replaced with the RM100.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Sep 3, 2014,
#16
Quote by dspellman


or he could of used he tilt back legs on the sides of the combo.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#17
Quote by gregs1020
or he could of used he tilt back legs on the sides of the combo.
Good catch.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#18
Quote by Cathbard


Like this?



That's what I replaced with the RM100.
That looks heavy, in every sense


No, I meant more like... imagine instead of the head in this pic it was a 2x12 combo vertically on top!

http://cdn-assets.tcelectronic.com/ImageGen.ashx?image=/media/157425/bc212-persp-stack-bh500-bc210.png&bordercolor=fffffe&width=920&height=500&pad=true&border=20&constrain=true&format=jpg&compression=90
ZEN JUDDHISM
The new solo project, and spiritual philosophy... Album out now !
----------------------------------------------------------
hybrid 6.0
Debut album 'Silent Destruction' out now
Read the Two Guys Metal review here
#19
Quote by Cathbard
Good catch.

actually thinking of installing a set on my traynor 112 combo.

they worked great on the fender i had, can't understand why more amps don't use them.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.
#20
Quote by gregs1020
actually thinking of installing a set on my traynor 112 combo.

they worked great on the fender i had, can't understand why more amps don't use them.


Me neither. You can buy them, of course, and I've put them on a couple of amps.
The issue is still getting the amp up off the ground, and this doesn't do it. I don't think you'll find many pros who will tell you that it's NOT advantageous to do so (especially if that's the main source of sound of your guitar). If you're the only one who needs to hear your amp, it's an average to good solution.
#21
They do tend to catch on things though, especially when they get old and a bit loose. That ^^ type, specifically. I'd prefer them to fold into the back and tuck in out of the way. Perhaps when I finally get around to finishing this combo I'll do something.

Now you've got me thinking, damn you! The way things usually go, it will probably take longer to do than the rest of the amp. I'll have to fire up the lathe, redesign the chassis...... hmmm ..... will need some locking mechanism..........Damn you both to hell.


Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#22
A guitar preamp is designed to make the tonal properties of guitars sound good. A bass preamp is designed specifically for bass. Always be sure to get a bass preamp unless you know for sure you want something else.
#23
Quote by Cathbard
Now you've got me thinking, damn you! The way things usually go, it will probably take longer to do than the rest of the amp. I'll have to fire up the lathe, redesign the chassis...... hmmm ..... will need some locking mechanism..........Damn you both to hell.



i'd say i'm sorry.

but i'm not.
I wondered why the frisbee was getting bigger, then it hit me.