#1
I recently picked up what is basically a sunn model t reissue clone and decided to try running it through the same 4x12 as my marshall jcm 2000. It was probably the best sound ive ever gotten, but I don't think I'd ever be able to use the two together live, just because there are 2 guitarists in my band, and im pretty sure id just wash him out of the mix. He usually uses a Sovtek mig 50 or mig 60, sometimes together/ bi amped. I'm wondering if there is any way to do this without just making a wash of noise, considering that it would need to be used in a practical/live setting?
#2
It's all about getting the levels right and most importantly EQing. Give one of the guitars more bass and the other more mids and treble. Should cut through.


ALSO: Raise the small amps off the floor (on a stool/chair or buy a stand). Makes a MASSIVE difference
Last edited by AndyGray at Sep 17, 2014,
#3
Sure, just turn the f'ckers down.

"Just enough to match the drum kit" is a good goal for rock guitar players. It is not often practiced though.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#4
Using two amps when there are two other guitarists is a terrible idea. It'll be a huge hassle for you, the sound man and will probably result in a muddy mix.
#5
I would argue it will likely result in a pretty muddy sound, so if you wanna do that be sure to keep the bass down, and use fairly tight amps if possible.

Also, yeah, leave some frequencies for the other guitarist to fill in.

Though you're two already, and if you ask me the advantage in sound quality isn't worth the time and effort of setting the thing up to sound good.
If you're able to make it sound good in the first place, that is.
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#6
It can work. Just adjust the EQ and volume so that there's room in the mix for both of you. Guys like Bonamassa, Mayer, and Paisley use up to three amps at a time and still make room for other guitarists. They are the stars and the bands are made to support them, and pay a lot of money for sound equipment and crew, but yeah, it's possible.
#7
Quote by letsgetcokes
I recently picked up what is basically a sunn model t reissue clone and decided to try running it through the same 4x12 as my marshall jcm 2000. It was probably the best sound ive ever gotten, but I don't think I'd ever be able to use the two together live, just because there are 2 guitarists in my band, and im pretty sure id just wash him out of the mix. He usually uses a Sovtek mig 50 or mig 60, sometimes together/ bi amped. I'm wondering if there is any way to do this without just making a wash of noise, considering that it would need to be used in a practical/live setting?


Just so I'm clear -- you're running two heads into a single 4x12 (one through two speakers, the other through two speakers, right)? I don't see an issue yet. That's not an overwhelming combination, though I'm assuming you have control of the volume.

Just so that you know, "bi-amped" is not simply the act of using two amps; it generally refers to a setup that has a crossover separating the signal into, say, bass and treble, so that one power amp handles each separately. Otherwise, running two amps is simply running two amps. Exactly how is the other guitarist using the two amps when he uses both?

In any case, the "wash of noise" issue isn't a function of the amplification or speakers. It's more a question of dynamics and EQ, and of arranging. Newbs and bedroom players feel they have to have their guitar playing all the time.

In a band situation, less is usually more. The idea is to create "spaces" for each instrument. Listen to "Mississippi Queen" by Mountain some time. That's a very powerful, driving song. And yet there are huge spaces for lead lines that don't walk on voice, and for some solid drumming. Sheila E. (percussionist) has often noted that she looks for "holes" in the music where she can tuck an occasional bit of spectacular drumming.

In a song like "Witchy Woman" by the Eagles, the rhythm guitar is often just a stab or two on the two and four, and the harmonies are usually fills *between* the lead singing.

If you're getting a "wash of noise," it's because you haven't taken the time to arrange the music to leave a lot of space. You've created a drone that's uninteresting and tiring to the ear.
Last edited by dspellman at Sep 17, 2014,
#8
yeah, i think he was more concerned that it would overpower him in the mix. Mainly because I would be running 2 100 watt amps in stereo in my 4x12, and he would be running 1 50 and 1 60 watt head into his 4x12 in stereo. I know that the difference between 50 and 100 watts is really only like 3db but i also dont think either of his amps have a master volume on them. theyre both single channel and he runs overdrive in front.
#9
I use a two-amp rig whenever I get the opportunity. I think the key is pinpointing the tonal characteristics in each amp that you like, then finding the right mix between the amps both in terms of EQ and volume.

For example, my main amp is a Jet City JCA20, which I really like, but it really falls on the brighter side of the spectrum due to it's emphasis on the high-mids. I like to pair it with an amp that has more low-mids to beef up the sound a bit, which currently is an old Legend Rock N Roll 50.

Another thing to note, is I run the JC a bit dirtier than the Legend. Two very dirty amps ran together can get muddy and undefined. Try running one of the amps cleaner than the other so you can keep note definition and beef up the sound without becoming too muddy.
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#10
Quote by letsgetcokes
yeah, i think he was more concerned that it would overpower him in the mix. Mainly because I would be running 2 100 watt amps in stereo in my 4x12, and he would be running 1 50 and 1 60 watt head into his 4x12 in stereo. I know that the difference between 50 and 100 watts is really only like 3db but i also dont think either of his amps have a master volume on them. theyre both single channel and he runs overdrive in front.


Hopefully you realize that you don't put your volume control at 11 and then just honk. If you own a volume control, turn it down. That way you'll never overpower anyone. We've made it a practice to set everything so that it can just be heard over the drummer.

That was a lot easier for us when we got rid of the stupid 4x12s, switched to 2x12s and put them up (vertically) on our airline cases and/or horizontally on tiltback stands.



4x12s beam treble *on axis* (and no, slant tops don't make much of a difference). You simply don't hear them (as the audience does) when they're aimed at your knees. So when you try to hear them over a drummer (and over the guitar player next to you), you think you need to turn up. Meanwhile, you're exploding the skulls of any random audience member who happens to walk directly in front of your 4x12 at ear level.

I have a project for which I mostly play keyboards. We had a guitarist, for a while, who was an idiot. He'd walk in, crank up a marshall on top of a 4x12 and swear on a stack of bibles that he couldn't play any lower and get "his sound." I'd been using one of my F115 speaker cabinets as a floor monitor directed at me and running everything else into the PA mixer, letting the FOH sound guy set levels as needed. The guitar player complained the he couldn't hear me. The sound guy and I rolled our eyes and I promised the guitar player that I'd fix that the next day.

Each of my cabinets will easily handle 900W and they're quite efficient. I have four of them and a pair of 1500W power amps to run them. In addition, when you stack them, they reinforce each other to the tune of around 6 dB for the four of them. I put them up on speaker stands (oh yeah -- they go on stands, too) arrayed at ear level and aimed at where he stands. He didn't even notice when he walked in, but the rest of the guys were clued in. He and his Marshall were nearly blown over, and I think he crapped his pants. I explained that I, too, couldn't play lower and get "my sound," and that I'd been having problems hearing me as well, and that this was going to be my personal monitor setup going forward.

We eventually banned his Marshall, gave him a modeler and made him listen to himself through a monitor wedge.