#1
C, D, (Eb/D#), F, G, (Ab/G#), B

C harmonic minor

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1.  C minor               -------------- (C,Eb,G)           -------------- I minor             -------------- (1,4,8)
2.  C sus4                -------------- (C,F,G)            -------------- I sus4              -------------- (1,6,8)
3.  C minor Maj7          -------------- (C,Eb,G,B)         -------------- I mmaj7             -------------- (1,4,8,12)
4.  C minor add9          -------------- (C,Eb,G,D)         -------------- I minor add9        -------------- (1,4,8,15)
5.  C minor add11         -------------- (C,Eb,G,F)         -------------- I minor add11       -------------- (1,4,8,18)
6.  C min add9 add11      -------------- (C,Eb,G,D,F)       -------------- I min add9 add11    -------------- (1,4,8,15,18)
7.  D dim                 -------------- (D,F,Ab)           -------------- II dim              -------------- (1,4,7)
8.  D dim 7               -------------- (D,F,Ab,B)         -------------- II dim 7            -------------- (1,4,7,10)
9.  D half diminished     -------------- (D,F,Ab,C)         -------------- II half diminished  -------------- (1,4,7,11)
_.  D min (no5)           -------------- (D,F)              -------------- II min (no5)        -------------- (1,4)
_.  D min7 (no5)          -------------- (D,F,C)            -------------- II min7 (no5)       -------------- (1,4,11)
_.  D min7 add11 (no5)    -------------- (D,F,C,G)          -------------- II min7 add11 (no5) -------------- (1,4,11,18)
_.  D min7 add13 (no5)    -------------- (D,F,C,B)          -------------- II min7 add13 (no5) -------------- (1,4,11,22)
_.  D min7add11&13(no5)   -------------- (D,F,C,G,B)        -------------- II min7add11&13(no5)-------------- (1,4,11,18,22)
_.  D min add11 (no5)     -------------- (D,F,G)            -------------- II min add11 (no5)  -------------- (1,4,18)
_.  D min add13 (no5)     -------------- (D,F,B)            -------------- II min add13 (no5)  -------------- (1,4,22)
_.  D min add11&13(no5)   -------------- (D,F,G,B)          -------------- II min add11&13(no5)-------------- (1,4,18,22)
10. Eb aug                -------------- (Eb,G,B)           -------------- III aug             -------------- (1,5,9)
__. Eb Major 7 (no5)      -------------- (Eb,G,D)           -------------- III Maj7 (no5)      -------------- (1,5,12)
__. Eb Major 9 (no5)      -------------- (Eb,G,D,F)         -------------- III Maj9 (no5)      -------------- (1,5,12,15)
__. Eb Major 11 (no5)     -------------- (Eb,G,D,F,Ab)      -------------- III Maj 11 (no5)    -------------- (1,5,12,15,18)
__. Eb Major7 add11 (no5) -------------- (Eb,G,D,Ab)        -------------- III Maj7 add11 (no5)-------------- (1,5,12,18)
__. Eb Major 13 (no5)     -------------- (Eb,G,D,F,Ab,C)    -------------- III Maj 13 (no5)    -------------- (1,5,12,15,18,22)
__. Eb Major7 add13 (no5) -------------- (Eb,G,D,C)         -------------- III Maj7 add13 (no5)-------------- (1,5,12,22)
__. Eb Major7add11,13(no5)-------------- (Eb,G,D,Ab,C)      -------------- IIIMaj7add11,13(no5)-------------- (1,5,12,18,22)
__. Eb Major7add9,13 (no5)-------------- (Eb,G,D,F,C)       -------------- IIIMaj7add9,13 (no5)-------------- (1,5,12,15,22)
__. Eb Major add13 (no5)  -------------- (Eb,G,C)           -------------- III Maj add13 (no5) -------------- (1,5,22)
__. Eb Major add11,13(no5)-------------- (Eb,G,Ab,C)        -------------- III Majadd11,13(no5)-------------- (1,5,18,22)
__. Eb Major add9,13 (no5)-------------- (Eb,G,F,C)         -------------- III Majadd9,13 (no5)-------------- (1,5,15,22)
__. Eb Maj add9,11,13(no5)-------------- (Eb,G,F,Ab,C)      -------------- III Majadd9,13 (no5)-------------- (1,5,15,18,22)
11. F minor               -------------- (F,Ab,C)           -------------- IV minor            -------------- (1,4,8)
12. F dim                 -------------- (F,Ab,B)           -------------- IV dim              -------------- (1,4,7)
13. F dim 7               -------------- (F,Ab,B,D)         -------------- IV dim 7            -------------- (1,4,7,10)
14. F half diminished     -------------- (F,Ab,B,Eb)        -------------- IV half diminished  -------------- (1,4,7,11)
15. F minor 6             -------------- (F,Ab,C,D)         -------------- IV minor 6          -------------- (1,4,8,10)
16. F minor 7             -------------- (F,Ab,C,Eb)        -------------- IV minor 7          -------------- (1,4,8,11)
17. F minor 9             -------------- (F,Ab,C,Eb,G)      -------------- IV minor 9          -------------- (1,4,8,11,15)
18. F minor 9 add 13      -------------- (F,Ab,C,Eb,G,D)    -------------- IV minor 9 add 13   -------------- (1,4,8,11,15,22)
19. F minor 7 add 13      -------------- (F,Ab,C,Eb,D)      -------------- IV minor 7 add 13   -------------- (1,4,8,11,22)
20. F minor add 9         -------------- (F,Ab,C,G)         -------------- IV minor add 9      -------------- (1,4,8,15)
21. F minor add 13        -------------- (F,Ab,C,D)         -------------- IV minor add 13     -------------- (1,4,8,22)
22. F minor add9 add13    -------------- (F,Ab,C,D,G)       -------------- IV minor add9 add13 -------------- (1,4,8,15,22)
23. G Major               -------------- (G,B,D)            -------------- V Major             -------------- (1,5,8)
24. G aug                 -------------- (G,B,Eb)           -------------- V aug               -------------- (1,5,9)
25. G sus4                -------------- (G,C,D)            -------------- V sus4              -------------- (1,6,8)
26. G7                    -------------- (G,B,D,F)          -------------- V7                  -------------- (1,5,8,11)
27. G Major add11         -------------- (G,B,D,C)          -------------- V Major add11       -------------- (1,5,8,18)
28. G7 add 11             -------------- (G,B,D,F,C)        -------------- V7 add11            -------------- (1,5,8,11,18)
29. G7 sus4               -------------- (G,C,D,F)          -------------- V7 sus4             -------------- (1,6,8,11)
__. Italian aug 6th (B)   -------------- (G,B,F)            -------------- V It+6 (B/VII)      -------------- (1,5,11)
__. German aug 6th (B)    -------------- (G,B,D,F)          -------------- V Ger+6 (B/VII)     -------------- (1,5,8,11)
30. Ab Major              -------------- (Ab,C,Eb)          -------------- VI Major            -------------- (1,5,8)
31. Ab minor              -------------- (Ab,B,Eb)          -------------- VI minor            -------------- (1,4,8)
32. Ab dim                -------------- (Ab,B,D)           -------------- VI dim              -------------- (1,4,7)
33. Ab dim 7              -------------- (Ab,B,D,F)         -------------- VI dim 7            -------------- (1,4,7,10)
34. Ab 6                  -------------- (Ab,C,Eb,F)        -------------- VI 6                -------------- (1,5,8,10)
35. Ab Major 7            -------------- (Ab,C,Eb,G)        -------------- VI Major 7          -------------- (1,5,8,12)
36. Ab minor 6            -------------- (Ab,B,Eb,F)        -------------- VI minor 6          -------------- (1,4,8,10)
37. Ab minor major 7      -------------- (Ab,B,Eb,G)        -------------- VI mmaj7            -------------- (1,4,8,12)
38. Ab Major add 13       -------------- (Ab,C,Eb,F)        -------------- VI Major add13      -------------- (1,5,8,22)
39. Ab minor add 13       -------------- (Ab,B,Eb,F)        -------------- VI minor add13      -------------- (1,4,8,22)
40. Ab Major 7 add 13     -------------- (Ab,C,Eb,G,F)      -------------- VI Major 7 add13    -------------- (1,5,8,12,22)
41. Ab  Maj flat 5        -------------- (Ab,C,D)           -------------- VI Maj flat 5       -------------- (1,5,7)
42. B dim                 -------------- (B,D,F)            -------------- VII dim             -------------- (1,4,7)
43. B dim 7               -------------- (B,D,F,Ab)         -------------- VII dim 7           -------------- (1,4,7,10)
44. B aug                 -------------- (B,Eb,G)           -------------- VII aug             -------------- (1,5,9)
45. B Major flat 5        -------------- (B,Eb,F)           -------------- VII Major flat 5    -------------- (1,5,7)
__. B Major (no5)         -------------- (B,Eb)             -------------- VII Major (no5)     -------------- (1,5)
__. B minor (no5)         -------------- (B,D)              -------------- VII minor (no5)     -------------- (1,4)
__. B Major add 13 (no5)  -------------- (B,Eb,Ab)          -------------- VII Major add13(no5)-------------- (1,5,22)
__. B minor add 13 (no5)  -------------- (B,D,Ab)           -------------- VII minor add13(no5)-------------- (1,4,22)



Check my work. Tell me if you find any mistakes or any missing chords.
Can never hurt to have a 2nd pair of eyes go over it
#3
Chords as vertical structures are silly and inefficient.

Also half those chords are not exclusive to HM.

Also half those chords would be better expressed as MM derivations.

Also this is too much information that could be replaced with knowledge of triads and chord construction.

Also if you plan on using lead sheet symbols (like G7sus4), you lose the entire point of augmented 6th chords.

Also that list is nowhere near exhaustive.

Other than that though it's good, I guess. But like Elintasokas said, there's no real use for it.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
Last edited by Jet Penguin at Sep 19, 2014,
#4
In C augmented 6th chords would be built on Ab, not G. Also, Eb major doesn't belong to the chords you get by harmonizing the harmonic minor scale. The chords you get by harmonizing the harmonic minor scale are Cm, Ddim, Ebaug, Fm, G, Ab and Bdim. And if you want to add 7ths, you get CmMaj7, Dm7b5, EbMaj7+5, Fm7, G7, AbMaj7 and Bdim7. This is pretty much all you need to know. There's no need for this kind of charts. And your chart lacks many chords (for example all 11th and 13th chords). Also, you count Dm7b5 and Dm7 (no 5) as different chords, even though they have exactly the same functions. You can omit chord tones without really changing the chord function.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#5
Yeah....What the other guys said. Especially extensions like Minoradd9 and so are useless to label. It's self explanatory that you can add 9ths and shit to anything you like and (no5) are even more pointless.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Sep 19, 2014,
#6
Quote by Elintasokas
Nice list, but what's the use for it? You don't look at this chart when you're making music, do you?

I'm also wondering this.

Why do you need a list, when you can just learn about chord construction? I really hope TS doesn't arbitrarily decide to pick chords "X, Y, & Z" and make a song, because that's generally bad practice.
#8
What's the use for it?

good enough to just replace with triads?

hell no.

have you guys ever heard of counterpoint?

that's where these come in handy the most.

Of course I don't write music directly off of a chord chart. first you write by ear, then check your work or use the chart to find chords you didn't think of, and these are great to write up in order to memorize more of the chords in the key/scale. It's like doing homework :P

Yes, listing some of the additions was redundant but remember I send these charts to people just starting with music theory so i want examples of everything on there since they're also a teaching tool.

@MaggaraMarine
just triads and just 7ths?
that's incredibly boring
how can you have fun writing music with such a limited chord selection
I couldn't disagree more
Also even though some chords share the same tones, they can have different functions.
That's why we still have sus2's along with sus4's even though some people don't like that.

That is an old debate though. Not worth bothering with since it's been going on for who knows how long and still no one has settled on it :P

Yes, I know that the augmented 6ths that you just googled look like they were built on Ab (but that's actually wrong. those ones have C as the tonic since the first note in the chord is NOT the tonic in a It+6,Fr+6,or a Ger+6)
these are the exact same intervals though just built from a different key/scale
so what's the difference.
They work either way
that's just a silly technicality
It's like if someone deemed the only way you could use a Major chord is when it's a C Major even though the same intervals (1,5,8) exist all over the place.
I'd never follow a rule like that. I actually wouldn't even call it a rule. There's no rule that says I can't transpose an augmented 6th to a different key or scale. If there was, I'd be all over breaking that rule :P

@Elintasokas

A (no5) chord is a shell chord. In this case especially it's incredibly different for one reason. There was no 5th for that chord in this key. There was no A in the scale for the 5th on the D minor for example. This means that these shell chords allow you to squeeze more chords out of a key than otherwise would be there. For example in the standard 7 note scale, the VII is a diminished or a half diminished, but if you omitt the 5th, suddenly you have access to a VII minor 7 (no5) and a VII minor 11 (no5)

Don't underestimate how useful having extra chords to work with can be when your song wants to hit the VII but it doesn't want to be diminished on that chord or if you're working with one of the scales that's very limiting chord selection wise.

I think the reason why I get so much objection to chord charts on guitar forums is because many people here are just writing for one instrument and not doing entire orchestras. (could be wrong)
When you're writing huge 22 track symphonies and what not, this sort of thing comes in handy when doing counterpoint. It speeds up the process and allows you to do a detailed check of your work. There are thousands of reasons for them to be useful at any given point. Even for looking for new ways to voice lead key changes while comparing two charts. The sky is the limit so don't limit yourself.
That's how I roll anyways. I never limit myself no matter what. I'm open to learning anything really. I even get info from people making dubstep on signal processing stuff when I'm into classical :P. an open mind has it's rewards.
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#9
I don't understand why you don't just build these chords in your head whenever you need them without having to refer to a chart. It's basic harmonic theory.
#11
Why would you limit yourself to notes within a single scale (harmonic minor in this case)? What stops you from using a VII WITH the 5th? lol. The fact that it's not naturally included in the HM scale? You know, you can mix all the minor keys freely. And not just the minor keys. Ever heard of modal mixture?

It's hilarious that you emphasize how important this is for counterpoint. I've studied counterpoint for 2 years, yet I've never needed any chord charts like this. It doesn't require an IQ of 250 to do all of this in your head without referring to any charts.

Also, if you're so into counterpoint, why are you so concerned about chords vertically?

Quote by stateofpsychosi

Yes, listing some of the additions was redundant but remember I send these charts to people just starting with music theory so i want examples of everything on there since they're also a teaching tool.


Please don't. You'll just discourage them. Instead teach them how to build those chords starting with the simplest triads.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Sep 23, 2014,
#12
@map

I do. that's how I wrote the chart
but the chart is still useful. why wing everything when you can check your work
Keep in mind I'm making through composed classical music which can get a little convoluted when you're not allowed to repeat anything :p
I'm just a perfectionist and will always check my work
definitely not a bad thing

@myshadow yea, i don't give these lists to anyone I'm teaching without first going through enough for them to understand it. you're right. that would demotivated someone who wasn't ready.

@elintasokas
I don't. I use key changes a lot. Especially when doing horror soundtrack stuff. Of course I know all of that. 2-5-1's, half step key changes, subdominant minor model interchange, etc
All useful stuff to know as well, but doesn't change the fact that shell chords are useful.
I don't understand why anyone would want to rule them out.

Well since counterpoint is when you add something that's fits harmonically yet is different melodically and in contour, having a chart to look at to squeeze out another tone for yet another track can be useful.
I do start with triads and all of the simple stuff. No one complains about the chord charts after. In fact, I started adding the additions because people wanted examples of them.

...My question would be why can't I post information on a forum like this without getting attacked? What's so wrong with being thorough? I'd say there's something else at play here that makes you all so offended by the idea because it makes no sense at all to me.
Dismissing useful information just because you think that you should always have to do all of it in your head like it's some sort of rule just seems stubborn to me.
I'm the kind of person that'll use every tool and method available because when you use them all, it's only going to improve you. Especially just writing up these charts. I'm not exaggerating when I say that you remember a lot of it when you're done and that you discover odd chords that you wouldn't have thought of otherwise like those shell chords.
Why dismiss any tool we can use in music? really though.
I wouldn't say to rely on these things.. I'm 100% with you guys on the fact that you should write your melodies and whatnot by ear first so that you're writing with feeling, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with using these charts post-writing or to just expand your knowledge.

I think you folks are a little too quick too dismiss this stuff
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#13
I wasn't looking for a debate on whether or not chords charts are useful folks or show down on who knows more theory.
This isn't meant to be a competitive thread

I'm just hoping someone finds some odd chords I missed
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#14
Useful information? That's the problem. No one else finds this useful.

Like whenever I need to build ANY chord, I simply do it in my head. I don't need a chart for it. I guess it's somewhat interesting to see all the chord possibilities for one specific scale, but that's where the use for it ends imo.
#15
@Elintasokas I work on a site with 40,000 members and most of them find this very useful
so that's your opinion but I still find it incredibly closed minded.
Agree to disagree I guess.

I've actually only ever gotten this kind of negative reaction to them from guitarists. Never from classical composers, never from jazz fiends, or any other group I can think of. Maybe it has something to do with you guys preferring tabs? I don't know. Still trying to wrap my head around it because calling them useless still seems crazy to me.

And I'm sure that if you do it all in your head, you're always going to miss one or two chords.

This is really a matter of preference too remember.

Most of the jazz friends I have love these things and they'd know more about their usefullness than anybody.
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#16
Sure, I believe you. I was just talking about the people that have posted on this thread so far.

Agree to disagree.

Quote by stateofpsychosi

And I'm sure that if you do it all in your head, you're always going to miss one or two chords.

Yeah, I probably would. But then again, I don't see a reason to try and build every possible chord from a scale (counting extensions past the 7th as a different chord). What matters is the function, not the name. For example if you add a 9th, it's still the same chord.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Sep 23, 2014,
#17
Quote by stateofpsychosi

...My question would be why can't I post information on a forum like this without getting attacked? What's so wrong with being thorough? I'd say there's something else at play here that makes you all so offended by the idea because it makes no sense at all to me.

It's good to question

Dismissing useful information just because you think that you should always have to do all of it in your head like it's some sort of rule just seems stubborn to me.

Usefulness is relative

I'm the kind of person that'll use every tool and method available because when you use them all, it's only going to improve you. Especially just writing up these charts.

I'll agree that writing out charts is good for understanding, but that's stuff I did when I first started learning theory. Once I understood it, there was no need for charts.

I'm not exaggerating when I say that you remember a lot of it when you're done and that you discover odd chords that you wouldn't have thought of otherwise like those shell chords.

"shell chords" are an extermly common concept, and again you discover these odd chords early on, internalise them and go on your merry way.

Why dismiss any tool we can use in music? really though.
I wouldn't say to rely on these things.. I'm 100% with you guys on the fact that you should write your melodies and whatnot by ear first so that you're writing with feeling, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with using these charts post-writing or to just expand your knowledge.

Tools are relative. Expanding your knowledge works better with some sort of focus. As in, focus on a specific chord, learn about it's function and sound, write something using said chord, write some more, and then move on to the next concept or idea after you fully appreciate what said chord can do for you.

I think you folks are a little too quick too dismiss this stuff


This stuff clogs up the MT toilet every day I come here. It's boring.

I honestly despise theory without function. Streams of words and names and numbers without actually telling people what they do. Look guys I've written out the chords/extensions of the Harmonic Minor scale for you! Oh great, what do i do with them? I tried using a M13 but it just sounds horrible what a useless chord!
Last edited by MapOfYourHead at Sep 23, 2014,
#18
To me, a chart like this is too much information to be memorized. It is useful information to know the scale for the key you are in, and to know all the triads you can build on every degree, I find. I also find that all the extensions you can build on all of those, using the remaining scale tones, is also useful. But, I would never really name them all or anything like that, personally. I just know that I could build them all. It's not really all that complicated once you know all the basic triads for every degree, and you know the scale you're in. It's just writing them all out on a chart makes it look like a lot of information, because it is.

I actually don't much even think about harmonic minor in terms of triads that way, because I don't use it incredibly frequently, and often when I do, it's for a short stint over a single chord, more notably the V in minor key. But it is something I find is worth knowing, and something I will put time into. It's just because it is less prominent in the music I like, it's a lot of effort in comparison to benefits, versus some other things. So it has not been super high on my priority list. But for the major and minor keys, I'm pretty all over stuff like this, mostly by sound and shape, but I could work out the name of anything. Which is actually something else I need to be better at, knowing the grips and their names more off the top of my head, and that's a higher priority to me, right now.
Last edited by fingrpikingood at Sep 23, 2014,
#19
well, I'm into classical and soundtrack stuff

I do a different scale almost every single time I make a song
so you could see how this stuff is a way to be organized for me more than anything.

I guess not everyone wants to have a full scope on every scale they use
but I still disagree

going through the egyptian scale recently and discovering the augmented 6ths I didn't think of while doing it in my head allowed me to create my own sort chord like wagner and his tristan chord which sounds absolutely awesome. can't wait till I'm finished the song.

but anyways, if you folks don't want the information
I won't post it anymore

I still think you are all being closed minded
but what can you do.

In fact, I'm done with this forum all together.

It's totally not constructive at all since I can't post anything here without being attacked for no reason even when I explicitly say that I'm looking for my chords to be checked and not for a debate on their usefullness.
It seems most forums are like this. (some of you were cool though)
I'll stick to my own site where we make sure things stay constructive and keep things open minded.

peace
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#21
Quote by stateofpsychosi

but anyways, if you folks don't want the information
I won't post it anymore

I still think you are all being closed minded
but what can you do.

In fact, I'm done with this forum all together.

It's totally not constructive at all since I can't post anything here without being attacked for no reason even when I explicitly say that I'm looking for my chords to be checked and not for a debate on their usefullness.
It seems most forums are like this. (some of you were cool though)
I'll stick to my own site where we make sure things stay constructive and keep things open minded.

peace


MaggaraMarine checked your post and gave advice.

Regardless, we only appreciate silence here. The truest form of music.
#22
yea it seems all the bickering makes it useless

I can't stand this type of shit

It just gets in the way of sharing info


too bad too because I have a lot I could share

mastering, audio restoration, sampling, signal processing, recording, theory, music business, soundcloud promotion, etc, etc, etc
I've taken a lot of schooling :P could have shared all of that info
#23
Quote by MapOfYourHead
MaggaraMarine checked your post and gave advice.

Regardless, we only appreciate silence here. The truest form of music.



yea, that was incredibly wrong though. The Ab isn't even the tonic even in the chords she mentioned and implying that you can't transpose a augmented 6th makes no sense.

whatever though.

I'll stick to my site
We don't get any kind of bickering like this
and if someone wants to correct or add something we do it without needing to have an argument or a pissing contest :P

I only stick to places I find useful and definitely not finding that here.
Last edited by stateofpsychosi at Sep 23, 2014,
#24
Point still stands that if you want to post information here, it is generally better to post it along with explainations and examples of function. In my experience, posting information like you did is regressive to those new to theory and boring to those who understand it. Feel free to post whatever you want, but if it lacks key information you will be told so.
#26
Quote by stateofpsychosi
yea, that was incredibly wrong though. The Ab isn't even the tonic even in the chords she mentioned and implying that you can't transpose a augmented 6th makes no sense.

whatever though.

I'll stick to my site
We don't get any kind of bickering like this
and if someone wants to correct or add something we do it without needing to have an argument or a pissing contest :P

I only stick to places I find useful and definitely not finding that here.


Everybody has an opinion. There are all types of musicians, making all types of music in all types of ways.

There's nothing wrong with that.

It is true, in every forum, you will get responses like this.


But who gives a shit? If you make music that works for you, then that's what matters. If you use techniques you find useful, then I think it is great to share those. Some people will disagree in a rude way, for sure.

I think though, that it is not a bad idea to demonstrate what the results are of certain philosophies.

I think music is often talked about backwards, and learned backwards. People might talk about a lot of theory, but that's a bit rough. You could go on end talking to me about cooking techniques, and how ingredients work, and all this, and that's a lot of information. But if I taste something, I might want to know what went into it. You know what I mean? music is best served as sound. So, it's not bad to show something like this, and an example of music made in harmonic minor for example. Maybe 3 or 4 progressions. But you will always get some backlash for sure.

Yes, it is true, I do not write songs in harmonic minor really, nor in melodic minor, or in any mode except for Ionian and Aeolian really. It just happens that way for me. That's me. So I approach theory, knowing that's the music I like, and feel like making.

This sort of knowledge lends itself better to sort of writing music, or creating music from a more theoretical perspective. Not so much a hands on, instrument in your hands, approach, imo.

And that's ok, nothing wrong with that. I'm sure it is useless to a lot of people, and I'm sure it is useful to a lot of people as well. There is no musician that is all musicians. There is no John Williams/Mozart/Beethoven/Miles Davis/Art Tatum/John Lennon/ BB King/ Andy Mckee/ Tommy Emmanuel/ Joe Pass/ Deadmau5/ Skrillex/ Aphex twin/ Coldplay/ Kurt cobain/ Jimi Hendrix/ Guthrie Govan/ Michael Jackson/ Justin Timberlake/ Eminem/ Mos Def/ Etc....

That shit doesn't exist. Everyone is different, and strong in different ways, at different aspects, with different approaches.

I know I have my approach. I know my approach is not for everyone. I know it is very different from other people here. I know I would get flack for talking about it. I also know that because of that, the music I make has its own character, which although it may span a number of genres and styles, has a flavour of my own, which is produced by my philosophies and how I approach theory, and how I trained on my instruments. And that is part of being an artist.

So, whatever. You think some information is useful that other people don't. So what? This is not any sort of surprise. Jimi hendrix studied stuff that joe Pass didn't and vice versa, and they were both awesome.

I think though, that if one wants to grow as a musician, it is important to try and ascertain what knowledge or training can provide what results, and try to take from other approaches in ways suitable to you. If you demonstrate stuff in action, it can be helpful for that sometimes. For music, things need to be heard. It is easy to forget that. In a forum people easily argue without hearing the music the person they are arguing with makes. So, I think it can be beneficial also to show examples of how some approach or philosophy helps you, or what sort of results it can get.

Maybe if I heard something in harmonic minor for the first time, I'd be like "wow, that's a cool sound, I'd like to write lots of progressions that sound like that, what is that?"

But I think no matter what, for your approach, it seems to me a lot, to memorize such a table, and really the use would be knowing how to build it. I don't imagine you know it all off the top of your head, but had to build it, right?
#27
Quote by stateofpsychosi

@MaggaraMarine
just triads and just 7ths?
that's incredibly boring
how can you have fun writing music with such a limited chord selection
I couldn't disagree more
Also even though some chords share the same tones, they can have different functions.
That's why we still have sus2's along with sus4's even though some people don't like that.

That is an old debate though. Not worth bothering with since it's been going on for who knows how long and still no one has settled on it :P

Yes, I know that the augmented 6ths that you just googled look like they were built on Ab (but that's actually wrong. those ones have C as the tonic since the first note in the chord is NOT the tonic in a It+6,Fr+6,or a Ger+6)
these are the exact same intervals though just built from a different key/scale
so what's the difference.
They work either way
that's just a silly technicality
It's like if someone deemed the only way you could use a Major chord is when it's a C Major even though the same intervals (1,5,8) exist all over the place.
I'd never follow a rule like that. I actually wouldn't even call it a rule. There's no rule that says I can't transpose an augmented 6th to a different key or scale. If there was, I'd be all over breaking that rule :P

WTF? So I just "Googled" augmented 6th chords? I know what they are. Don't talk to me like I don't know what I'm talking about. That's really annoying.

In the C harmonic minor scale you don't find any augmented 6th chords. They just don't belong to that scale. If you build chords using the C harmonic minor scale, the chord you get is G7, not an It6 chord of B minor. It just isn't called an augmented 6th chord because that's not the chord's function in C minor.

And why I mentioned the extensions was because you had some of them written out but not all of them. Your chart lacked some 9th, 11th and 13th chords. Of course these extension are also important. But they aren't usually used for all chords. And many times they are altered. I don't think people usually build extended chords by using a harmonic minor scale.

My point was that if you want to make charts like this, 7th chords are enough, especially if you are not going to write all extended chords (many of which are really never used).

Also, as I said, some of your chords lacked the fifth and you marked them as different chords. Omitting the fifth is really common and doesn't change the chord's function so I wouldn't call G7 and G7 (no5) different chords.

The better way IMO is to learn how to build chords. You only need to know the intervals and understand the chord naming system.
Quote by AlanHB
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#28
Also, as I said, some of your chords lacked the fifth and you marked them as different chords. Omitting the fifth is really common and doesn't change the chord's function so I wouldn't call G7 and G7 (no5) different chords.


^This was said to you in the last thread as well. Chord naming is based on function.

It6 chords are specifically named by function, they don't exist anywhere else. The notes do, but the name doesn't.

^also this
#30
I think I wasn't clear enough.

An augmented 6th chord is all about voice leading, not a vertical structure. I don't have an issue with you giving it one letter name vs another, but giving it a letter name at all. When you say "Ab7" or whatever, you aren't informing anyone of the voice leading, which is the entire point of a +6 chord.

Edit @ Jazz rock feel: Exactly. Chords are dumb.

The triad thing isn't about making big chords vs. small chords, I meant that it would be better for everyone's musicianship to learn what chords are and how to build them instead of memorizing a list. One has infinite application, the other doesn't

And I apologize if we sounded close minded; I certainly didn't mean to come across that way. It's just that are certain things that could be expressed in a more accurate and efficient way, and especially if you are into concert/contrapuntal music. A list of chords just is not an efficient learning/composing tool.

But then again, my way is not THE way. So if it works for you go for it, and don't listen to anyone, you don't have to.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
Last edited by Jet Penguin at Sep 24, 2014,