#1
Squire strat, I'd say the neck is pretty flat, but recently looking at the neck from the bridge to head while holding it like a waiters plate thing, the head is a bit higher then the body :/ idk if this is normal or what, I've seen a les paul where the head went down (kinda what I want after seeing that) and the bridge is high. It would be better if neck wasent at a angle?

Thanks,
Higgins909
#2
you might have some bow to the neck, which a truss rod adjustment would fix

otherwise that sounds normal. les pauls have a set neck that is actually at an angle with the body kind of like a violin but a lot less pronounced.
#4
The neck angle has to be such that the saddles can be adjusted to get the right action height. Apart from that I don't think it is important. The bridge on a Gibson is higher than on a Strat, so the neck has to be at a greater angle.

If the neck angle is wrong, it can be shimmed - no big deal.
#5
If the guitar feels and plays fine and your not getting any notes fretting out or buzzing then there's probably nothing to worry about. If it ain't broke, don't fix it
#6
Quote by higgins909
Squire strat, I'd say the neck is pretty flat, but recently looking at the neck from the bridge to head while holding it like a waiters plate thing, the head is a bit higher then the body :/ idk if this is normal or what, I've seen a les paul where the head went down (kinda what I want after seeing that) and the bridge is high. It would be better if neck wasent at a angle?

Thanks,
Higgins909

What you mean is that if you lay the guitar on its back on a flat surface, the headstock and tuning pegs don't touch the surface, right?
It's perfectly fine, that's the Stratocaster design.


Compare with the side view (the middle one) on this diagram for reference:


Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
#7
^ +1

assuming that's what he means
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#8
I laid the guitar on a flat surface, at the base of the neck? it was 2 3/16th" high, at fret 1 it was 2 5/16th" high, this is what I see when I look at it bridge to headstock, like a gun.
Edit: but holding it palm to back of guitar body, other hand holding on near the 4 screw/bolts.
Last edited by higgins909 at Sep 25, 2014,
#9
That's just the change in the neck thickness. t doesn't seem like there's any problem. If you want to actually check, measure your neck relief using the strings and frets. Right now you're worrying about measurements that don't matter.
#10
Quote by higgins909
I've seen a les paul where the head went down (kinda what I want after seeing that) and the bridge is high.

Les Paul's have an angled headstock, you'll never get that from a Strat, Fender uses a 0 angle headstock design. Also the Les Paul has a tune-o-matic bridge which sits higher than a strat style trem bridge which also means the neck is angled back compared to the body to compensate.
#11
Fenders have straight headstocks. That's just how they're made. That's why they have those little retaining pieces just above that nut, that puts downward pressure on the strings, to keep them from popping out of the nut slots. Most other brands don't use those because their headstocks themselves are angled downwards.
#12
I am not talking about the headstock, I am talking about how..... the 2nd guitar in that 3 guitar pic posted by Linkerman.
The head/1st fret is further down in the pic, but the base is at the same spot... neck is straight... trying to figure out if its normal or not, but it seems people are getting the wrong idea.
#13
Quote by higgins909
I am not talking about the headstock, I am talking about how..... the 2nd guitar in that 3 guitar pic posted by Linkerman.
The head/1st fret is further down in the pic, but the base is at the same spot... neck is straight... trying to figure out if its normal or not, but it seems people are getting the wrong idea.


Have you removed the neck to see if it's shimmed?
Gear:
Jackson Dinky (JB+59) > TC Polytune Noir > TS808 clone > DOD 250 > Modded RAT > CH-1 > GE-7 > TC Flashback > Plexi Clone
#14
Quote by higgins909
I am not talking about the headstock, I am talking about how..... the 2nd guitar in that 3 guitar pic posted by Linkerman.
The head/1st fret is further down in the pic, but the base is at the same spot... neck is straight... trying to figure out if its normal or not, but it seems people are getting the wrong idea.

Sorry, but I really don't get what you're trying to explain.

Can you post photos of what's bothering you on your guitar so we can try to see if there's something wrong with it or not?
Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
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EHX Small Clone
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DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
#15
Quote by higgins909
but it seems people are getting the wrong idea.

Because we have no idea what you're trying to say.

Take a picture, draw us a diagram, take some measurements. Your written descriptions are not conveying anything meaningful.
#16
Archer250 is probably in the right direction, but i'm not all that comfortable, yet taking the neck off.


In the image i'm flat with the pickguard, but you see the neck popping up even tho it is pretty straight (the trussrod).
the 1st fret is 2/16" higher then the 17th fret when you lay the guitar on a flat surface and measure, the head does not touch the ground for a good inch or so.
#17
i think your trem is too high there

you need to tighten the screws under the backplate (the ones which connect to the claw which attaches to the trem springs which screw the claw more into the body, which increases the tension on the springs).

the trem doesn't have to be level (some people like it to float a little so they can get some up-bend on the trem), but yours looks too high.
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
Quote by K33nbl4d3
I'll have to put the Classic T models on my to-try list. Shame the finish options there are Anachronism Gold, Nuclear Waste and Aged Clown, because in principle the plaintop is right up my alley.

Quote by K33nbl4d3
Presumably because the CCF (Combined Corksniffing Forces) of MLP and Gibson forums would rise up against them, plunging the land into war.

Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
Et tu, br00tz?
#18
That first facebook picture you just posted looks like the neck is bolted on at a bad angle. Action looks insanely high at the higher frets. I've seen that before. Being a Squier Strat, I'm not surprised. Did you buy it new or used? If new, online retailer? Guitar Center? At my store, we would never have allowed a guitar with that terrible of a neck angle to go on the sales floor. We'd have had our tech reset the neck, and send it back if he couldn't get it perfect.
Last edited by the_bi99man at Sep 26, 2014,
#19
Yeah, that action is way too high. Even the pickups are higher than I've ever seen in a Strat.
Take the guitar to a tech so that he can see what's the problem and what can be done about that neck.

Quote by the_bi99man
Being a Squier Strat, I'm not surprised.

Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
Last edited by Linkerman at Sep 26, 2014,
#20
It's my dad's guitar he got in the 80's as a xmas present, idk if it was used or new, but now it has pickup rash (me as a child strumming as hard as I could lol) this neck issue, Dave_Mc think the trem is too high, and after he pointed that out I agree, it explains my saddle screws being so visable and intonation issue on the Low E, I dont really use the tremolo, but the springs are stiff, while im in there I will see about loosening them.
The body right under the neck, has a paint chip, idk if it was throw around or what, with some 5 house moves in its life. yeah the action is high, I tried lowing it at one point but got buz, the action has been set to not buz.
#21
Well sure, I'd imagine you don't get any buzz with the bridge popped out so high. Doesn't mean it's a good setup.

Get the trem tightened up so it's not hanging out in midair and then adjust your truss rod and string height and intonation. You'll probably want to lower your pickups too.
#22
hehe, taking it to a tech is not really a option for me, spending money on it when its something I can do, is not a option, plus its probably a cheap guitar :/ might as well buy a new one, $120ish for a new strat at gutiar center, but I'd like something like a Scope 725 natural, if I where to spend that kind of money.

The pickups where setup like that by me, I only use the bridge, recently I thought about lowing the middle pickup all the way down, as its recently become my place to pick. and the bridge was too low before that it was causing issues with intonation on the Low E.....

I took the backplate off noticed the 2 claw screws, only 1 screw was actually holding it as the other was backed off a bit, but I ended up backing the other one of to level it out and make the tremelo easyer, I backed off all 6 of the trem plate screws to get the plate level, like in the strat manual I found online, but they all snug, it wanted the middle 4 the be 1/16 high off, that seemed like a bad idea to me, idk what they screw into or how long, and its a basswood body(I think). so they just a extra quarter turn out, from the outer screws.

The main reason for this thread.... I got the neck off... its like a rough routing job or something, and the measurements I've taken of the slot and the neck, say it should be doing the opposite of what its doing.... I'm going to measure a few more times... the neck was screwed down pretty tight, so I don't think that was the issue.

If I was to shim the neck? what would I use? put some paper in the side that needs to go up?
#23
I put some paper where inbetween the 2 rear screws and about half way to the front screws, it fixed it for the most part, I consider this more of a temp fix especially because it kinda creeks and have no idea how the paper will handle what its doing.
#24
In that setup, the bridge was that high, because it would get buzz otherwise, right now ontop of 12th fret Low E and the middle of the string, is 3mm high, Low E still has intonation issue (I thought I would be able to un-max out the intonation screw for it but guess not, still tight with spring on the screw. with the way its currently setup it sill gets some buzz, and unfortunately I think the neck is back at its angle. The highest pickup is only 5mm high.
#25
Sounds like you're just not doing a good job of setting it up

All but the shittiest of guitars or those with serious structural issues can be set up just fine. Messing around with a super tall bridge and shimming the neck based on measurements that don't have a lot of relevance seems like you're just adjusting things at random instead of giving your instrument a proper setup.
#26
The neck shimming was to see if it would even fix the problem remotely. You look at the photos? see that neck angle? a good number of frets have buzzing issue, but i'm too cheap to take it to someone to do any work to the guitar. fender says 1.6-2mm depending on neck radius (no idea what mine is) ontop of fret 17 and below the string, im at 3mm with a bit of buzz. I had it at some 1-2mm when I put the neck back on, but every other frett buzzed/mutted out. tomorrow i'm going to go find a lever, that they use when building houses/etc (its a straight object to show the angle better).
#27
Whatever other problems it might have, it's clear in the pictures that the neck set is crooked as hell. Looks like you have damn near a full inch of action at the high frets. No amount of bridge adjustment or truss rod tweaking is going to fix that. You need to take that neck off, figure out why it's sitting at such an insane angle, and put it back on straight.
#28
Quote by Linkerman





What? Squiers come from the factory with bad neck sets more often than higher-end brands with real quality control. Going to deny that?
#29
Quote by the_bi99man
What? Squiers come from the factory with bad neck sets more often than higher-end brands with real quality control. Going to deny that?

Squier's quality control is actually pretty good in my experience. Better than Epiphone's, for example.
It's the first time I'm seeing a neck in that condition in a Squier, and I won't rule out user error right away.
Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
#30
This ones from the 80's and Korea.
Here are some more pics, I decided to put them up as links rather then a big image like last time. They show the neck joint area, with the neck off. I tried contacting a local Luither about a quote, as seeing some reviews saying he's doing lots of work for cheap. Today I found the price list on his website.... I don't think anyone will be payed to work on the guitar, ever.
Body showing neck slot
Under neck, Body slot again.
another body slot angle, the edge with paint looks like a angle in pic, but is good.
poor shot of flat underneck.
Unless I can do the work, its gunna have to be played as is.
but this joint is pretty rough right?, and the pictures don't even do it justice.
#31
Quote by higgins909
hehe, taking it to a tech is not really a option for me, spending money on it when its something I can do, is not a option, plus its probably a cheap guitar :/ might as well buy a new one, $120ish for a new strat at gutiar center, but I'd like something like a Scope 725 natural, if I where to spend that kind of money.

The pickups where setup like that by me, I only use the bridge, recently I thought about lowing the middle pickup all the way down, as its recently become my place to pick. and the bridge was too low before that it was causing issues with intonation on the Low E.....

I took the backplate off noticed the 2 claw screws, only 1 screw was actually holding it as the other was backed off a bit, but I ended up backing the other one of to level it out and make the tremelo easyer, I backed off all 6 of the trem plate screws to get the plate level, like in the strat manual I found online, but they all snug, it wanted the middle 4 the be 1/16 high off, that seemed like a bad idea to me, idk what they screw into or how long, and its a basswood body(I think). so they just a extra quarter turn out, from the outer screws.

The main reason for this thread.... I got the neck off... its like a rough routing job or something, and the measurements I've taken of the slot and the neck, say it should be doing the opposite of what its doing.... I'm going to measure a few more times... the neck was screwed down pretty tight, so I don't think that was the issue.

If I was to shim the neck? what would I use? put some paper in the side that needs to go up?


The bass-side trem claw-screw has been screwed in farther than the treble side one on every well Strat setup ever. That's the way it is supposed to be.

It sounds like you have no clue about what you are doing.

Listen to the advice given and be reasonable by taking it to a tech.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
Last edited by HomerSGR at Sep 27, 2014,
#32
Quote by higgins909
This ones from the 80's and Korea.
Here are some more pics, I decided to put them up as links rather then a big image like last time. They show the neck joint area, with the neck off. I tried contacting a local Luither about a quote, as seeing some reviews saying he's doing lots of work for cheap. Today I found the price list on his website.... I don't think anyone will be payed to work on the guitar, ever.
Body showing neck slot
Under neck, Body slot again.
another body slot angle, the edge with paint looks like a angle in pic, but is good.
poor shot of flat underneck.
Unless I can do the work, its gunna have to be played as is.
but this joint is pretty rough right?, and the pictures don't even do it justice.

So, it's a MIK Squier from the '80s.
Did you bought it new back in the day, or was it bought used?


I'm asking this because if you bought it used, it's possible that that neck isn't the original.
That said, the neck joint seems a bit thicker than it should; but again, if it originally had a slimmer neck, this would explain the issue.

Also, it seems there's something wrong with the body, it may have been tampered with and it could even not be a Squier body -- I could swear that there's a block of different wood in the space between the neck pickup and the neck joint, and some filler (black?) between that block of wood and the pickguard.


Anyway, this guitar may easily be salvageable by making adjustments to the neck joint so that the neck rests in the right depth and angle.
Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
#33
about the tremolo claw screws, it only appeared that one screw was holding it in, but their at different angles and countersink screws (I thought it was a normal flat screw at the time)
Yeah, I just noticed it more, it also kinda looks like the piece of wood is hovering, but I took the pickguard off and it looked normal or it may of been masked up, also some white kinda dust stuff was in the joint.
Right now I've been asking myself if I want to try sanding to fix the angle, if I do I may not have enough screw to raise the saddle, to avoid buzz, or I could do it, and look into filing down some frets. (I will take a long hard look at some videos of people working on frets, then consider)

Take it to someone to have work done = $100+ squire bullet HH $120ish
Me = I really don't want to spend money.
#34
Quote by higgins909
about the tremolo claw screws, it only appeared that one screw was holding it in, but their at different angles and countersink screws (I thought it was a normal flat screw at the time)
Yeah, I just noticed it more, it also kinda looks like the piece of wood is hovering, but I took the pickguard off and it looked normal or it may of been masked up, also some white kinda dust stuff was in the joint.
Right now I've been asking myself if I want to try sanding to fix the angle, if I do I may not have enough screw to raise the saddle, to avoid buzz, or I could do it, and look into filing down some frets. (I will take a long hard look at some videos of people working on frets, then consider)

Take it to someone to have work done = $100+ squire bullet HH $120ish
Me = I really don't want to spend money.


Sand some frets? Stop, and don't do anything to the guitar before you're sure what the problem is. Right now, you're just guessing wildly and you obviously have no previous experience with working on guitars.

You don't know what it will cost to have it fixed if you don't go there and have them look at it and ask for a quote. You can't ask them for a quote before they have confirmed what the actual problem is.

Why do you compare prices to a Squier Bullet Strat? It is not what you have.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
Last edited by HomerSGR at Sep 27, 2014,
#35
You misread, I'm taking about sanding the neck joint, and ""filing down some frets""
its close isnt it? last year I tried figuring out what guitar I really had. the head is that of a bullet and has SSS pickups if I had the choice over HH or SSS or HSS I'd go for HH or maybe just 1 H if they ever made a decent cheap guitar with one.

I don't really know if you can call it guessing wildly? its more of a fact that the neck joint is at a vertical angle, when you lay the guitar on its back, on the ground. (it is NOT the truss rod)
Fact it has high action.
Fact frets are bad in areas, my dad told me he got into some country, and remembers like a cord from a song (he tried playing 5 some years ago when we got it out of the attic)
I don't think he could have done that much fret damage, when we got it out of the attic it had its case (fender hardcase) 1 fender head amp thing and 2 boxes that we no longer have, It may have been bought used. like 10th fret is very worn in on the Low E string.

I still haven't done anything to the guitar yet.
#36
Well then go do something to it, right now you're just posting random issues that aren't explained well enough for anyone to help. You're not really taking the small amounts of help that have been offered anyway so this seems like a waste of time for everyone.

If you think you know what needs to be done, go do it. So far we haven't been able to figure out what you need from us or what the real problem is.
#37
Quote by Roc8995
Well then go do something to it, right now you're just posting random issues that aren't explained well enough for anyone to help. You're not really taking the small amounts of help that have been offered anyway so this seems like a waste of time for everyone.

If you think you know what needs to be done, go do it. So far we haven't been able to figure out what you need from us or what the real problem is.

+3,1415

Take the guitar to a skilled tech.
Only he'll be able to tell you what is exactly wrong with the guitar AND how much it'll cost to fix it.
It may be a cheap and easy fix, but you won't know until you ask.

And since the neck probably didn't belong to that guitar body in the first place, you may have intonation issues due to the original neck being a different scale neck, and that could be the reason why the chords sound wrong.


I stress again: don't try to do it yourself -- you clearly have no idea what to do, and you're probably going to do more damage if you try to do something.
Let a professional properly diagnose all the issues with your guitar, so that you can decide if it's worth fixing or not.
Squier "VMC" Stratocaster
PRS SE Singlecut
tc electronic polytune
CMAT MODS Signa Drive
Blakemore Effects Deus Ex Machina
DIY gaussmarkov Dr. Boogey
EHX Small Clone
Mooer ShimVerb
DIY Beavis Devolt
T-REX Fuel Tank Chameleon
Ampeg GVT52-112
#38
Thanks, to:
Will Lane, Archer250, the_bi99man, and Linkerman, except his last comment :/
I ended up just putting 4 pieces of electric tape as a shim, held up some 12 hrs.
Like I said, guitar tech is not affordable to me... I know whats wrong with the guitar....
No idea what to do? man thats one whooper of a insult... I came here wondering if something was up with my neck, got massively understood...

I'd close this thread if I knew how, issue has been solved.