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#1
I figured I would ask the biggest elitists I know, well kind of. But no less. How important do you think elitism is in metal? In smaller circles of metal? Is there some kind of initiation we should put others through, or do you think metal should be accessible to everyone?

How prevalent do you think it is and what do you think its impacts are?

I'll let you dudes sort it out, and then outsiders will see this and they'll say something like,

metal is inaccessible because you hurt my feelings

but we all know that only turns people away for a short time, and their passion should be drives them through and let them thrust themselves into the world of skulls, candles, fukking, and other metal happenings.

That may or may not be true. Do you feel more accomplished if you've gone through shit to enjoy metal, or do you think metal is for the people regardless of who they are?

Lots of questions all about elitism.

EDIT: Outsiders of metal:

Quote by deadsmileyface
it's not

Quote by Baby Joel
Yep, this thread has summed up my feelings on elitism
Last edited by severed-metal at Sep 25, 2014,
#3
Not the pit, fella. We have capital letters in our sentences.

EDIT: Changed the semi-colon to a period for the layman.
Last edited by severed-metal at Sep 25, 2014,
#5
Elitism is in the eye of the beholder.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#6
Quote by severed-metal
Not the pit, fella; We have capital letters in our sentences.

is that a fucking semicolon
#7
Quote by deadsmileyface
is that a fucking semicolon


I know it's because of your education, but yes it is a semi-colon. Should I change it to a period so your people can understand it?

Quote by kirkisking
It's not.


No it isn't, you wank.
Last edited by severed-metal at Sep 25, 2014,
#12
Nothing wrong with credible syntax.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#13
Yep, this thread has summed up my feelings on elitism
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#14
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Elitism is in the eye of the beholder.


I am referring to the elitism that condones the bashing of bands not deemed worthy of listening to, or bashing of the people that listen to them.

Figured this hot trendy topic would get the forum some heat, you know, like some attention.
#15
Quote by Baby Joel
Yep, this thread has summed up my feelings on elitism


After you have haphazardly stumbled upon our grotto and quoted our very own Ziggy V, telling him not to say, "kill yourself," a few weeks ago, you have allowed deadsmileyface to simply not attract attention in the matter for the very same offence, from the very person who thought it worthy of noting prior to this?

Disgusting human beings need not apply to the grotto. Be gone, wretch. Your foul stench sickens me.
#16
dead already knows I don't like suicide jokes. No need for me to remind him.

And sorry for the smell, I had showered earlier but I guess I didn't lather enough.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#17
Quote by severed-metal
I am referring to the elitism that condones the bashing of bands not deemed worthy of listening to, or bashing of the people that listen to them.


If that's the case, Metal is far from the sole heir to elitism and its practice. You see it in every medium and art form, some more than others. Ever talk to Rap fans and find yourself surprised at the disparity of opinions or their ability to vastly defer from each others stance on what is good for Rap etc? I can't for the life of me figure out how they do it, but it is tangible and exist. Metal Elitism is just another instance of one idea trying to prove itself superior to the other.

I take part from time to time as I have my own passionate ideas on it, but it is hardly worth effort and accomplishes nothing. Most people should learn to be a good sport about it anyways.

I prefer to talk about the actual music though.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#18
Quote by Baby Joel
dead already knows I don't like suicide jokes. No need for me to remind him.


Then perhaps a public shaming is in order. I will not settle for less.

But as it stands, I am not your master and as such, am also no one's master but my own. You will do what you will without my guidance, but just know you have penetrated the grotto.

A soul is but blackened only to be shined upon through life, exposing the evil and allowing the soul to cleanse.

And sorry for the smell, I had showered earlier but I guess I didn't lather enough.


Your stench is much deeper than your skin. We are not born without sin, and yet brimstone hastily engages my nostrils as I sense you near. But one in the same they appear to be, you are but a foul and wretched humanoid.
#20
I am an "outsider" of metal, though I understand the genre via my middle school days and some friends who stuck with it. You will be pleased to know that after years of denouncing them, I have come to the conclusion that Slipknot is a good band after all.

Elitism is bad and art should not be restricted by needless egotism.

there i used 'proper' punctuation and everything
#21
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Metal Elitism is just another instance of one idea trying to prove itself superior to the other.


Of course, the pertinence of this topic exists for metal and metal only since we all have common ground in this area, but I do not doubt the other worlds apart from metal can be worse or better dependent on circumstances.

I take part from time to time as I have my own passionate ideas on it, but it is hardly worth effort and accomplishes nothing. Most people should learn to be a good sport about it anyways.


A good thought that I find myself in agreement with.

I prefer to talk about the actual music though.


No one wants to talk about music anymore. We are left with politics, the rights and wrongs of content. But metal always existed in the extreme, so that's why I'm curious if a guard is necessary for the extreme to exist. Some sort of defense, that being elitism.
#22
Why can't ppl just listing to the ''metal" that they like and stop being assholes and spaying there corny diarrhea on the genre they don't like.
KIFFLOM
#23
Honestly though, what benefits are there to elitism? It creates niche sub-cultures that people are then proud to 'belong' to and be a part of, but it alienates them from the others. It promotes a judgemental and narrow-minded way of thought. I just don't see the necessity or the good that could come from elitism.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#24
Quote by severed-metal
Some sort of defense, that being elitism.


When it comes to the real world, Metal has all the defenses it needs to cultivate its bloody and vicious art. I will remind you that these defenses do not, and need not, exist on the internet in the form of armchair debates. These vanguards exist in young blood, old veterans, studio rituals, cryptic writings and pounding hammerhearts.

Nothing important to Metal happens on the internet. Absolutely nothing.

With that in mind, enjoy the music.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#25
Quote by severed-metal
But as it stands, I am not your master and as such, am also no one's master but my own. You will do what you will without my guidance, but just know you have penetrated the grotto.

A soul is but blackened only to be shined upon through life, exposing the evil and allowing the soul to cleanse.

Your stench is much deeper than your skin. We are not born without sin, and yet brimstone hastily engages my nostrils as I sense you near. But one in the same they appear to be, you are but a foul and wretched humanoid.

Your words are so eloquent. And I must say I do agree. Elitism does have a very special place in metal and is a necessary component. As you said, it's a sort of right of passage for those who wish to have their tastes in music enlightened and listen to only the best of what this beautiful type of music has to offer. Without elitism metal would be too accessible and so many more subpar bands would keep popping up and ruining our sacred grotto.


Here is a picture of the smile that your thread brought to my face



Much respect,


Caeser1156

ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
Last edited by caeser1156 at Sep 25, 2014,
#26
Quote by VampireGoldfish
When it comes to the real world, Metal has all the defenses it needs to cultivate its bloody and vicious art. I will remind you that these defenses do not, and need not, exist on the internet in the form of armchair debates. These vanguards exist in young blood, old veterans, studio rituals, cryptic writings and pounding hammerhearts.

Nothing important to Metal happens on the internet. Absolutely nothing.

With that in mind, enjoy the music.


You are a very wise soul, Vamps.

I think I've had my fun.
#27
Quote by sonic_hippy
Why can't ppl just listing to the ''metal" that they like and stop being assholes and spaying there corny diarrhea on the genre they don't like.


because there are a few metal bands that I like and I think that there is metal music that I may not personally enjoy, but still has its own merits. I like to drop by every now and then because it's good to expose myself to other things.

besides this thread is different because the idea of elitism doesn't necessarily have to involve the music itself.

I also think that while hip-hop (since someone brought it up) is generally close minded in its own way, its not the same type ridiculous elitism seen in many metal fans. there are different factors contributing to the elitism in each genre (and I wouldn't really call it 'elitism' with hip-hop).

In any case, I only know a handful of metal elitist in real life. Most are more open minded than this.

and honestly metal isn't even that br00tal. Some metal tries really hard to be but I find myself thinking 'wow this sounds ridiculous' rather than 'wow this is gruesome and hard hitting'.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Sep 25, 2014,
#28
I think elitism is important for the progress of music and most things in general. All the best stuff was made cause someone looked at something else and said "that's just not good enough, looks like I have to do it myself"

i think the line between it being positive or negative is whether you spend your energy/time trying to do it better or to just belittle the thing you think is not good enough.
Free your mind and your ass will follow
The kingdom of heaven is within
Open up your funky mind and you can fly

Sumdeus
#29
Quote by Baby Joel
Honestly though, what benefits are there to elitism? It creates niche sub-cultures that people are then proud to 'belong' to and be a part of, but it alienates them from the others. It promotes a judgemental and narrow-minded way of thought. I just don't see the necessity or the good that could come from elitism.


Before the internet, I would disagree with you. With the advent of profoundly easy access to any microculture that exist via internet and technology, I have to mostly agree with you.

The old fart in me who existed when physical and cultural vanguards of "elitism" existed with purpose and reason though? That part of me is filled with ambivalence toward the whole sad debacle. I get nostalgic for the "elitism" that existed then. There was true exclusivity that harbored a genuine sense of disconnect that felt right, given the conventions of this genre. You may not agree, but it is alien for me to see "Normal" people permeate into what once was dangerous.

But again, who cares. Talk about the music. It's all we have left.
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
Last edited by VampireGoldfish at Sep 25, 2014,
#30
Quote by romencer17
I think elitism is important for the progress of music and most things in general. All the best stuff was made cause someone looked at something else and said "that's just not good enough, looks like I have to do it myself"

i think the line between it being positive or negative is whether you spend your energy/time trying to do it better or to just belittle the thing you think is not good enough.


This is a good post.
#31
Quote by VampireGoldfish
Before the internet, I would disagree with you. With the advent of profoundly easy access to any microculture that exist via internet and technology, I have to mostly agree with you.

The old fart in me who existed when physical and cultural vanguards of "elitism" existed with purpose and reason though? That part of me is filled with ambivalence toward the whole sad debacle. I get nostalgic for the "elitism" that existed then. There was true exclusivity that harbored a genuine sense of disconnect that felt right, give the conventions of this genre. You may not agree, but it is alien for me to see "Normal" people permeate into what once was dangerous.

But again, who cares. Talk about the music. It's all we have left.

I can understand that. I guess since I was never really part of the metal movement or anything, I can't really relate to the role of elitism in metal. I've never really thought about how the elitism is an accurate reflection of the intentional separation that metal creates.

I guess I'm thinking of elitism in a more severe way, where people will reject anything that doesn't belong in their clique. But a tamer elitism could make sense I suppose.

I completely agree with the last line
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#32
Quote by Baby Joel
I've never really thought about how the elitism is an accurate reflection of the intentional separation that metal creates.


That's a bingo.

Quote by Baby Joel

I guess I'm thinking of elitism in a more severe way, where people will reject anything that doesn't belong in their clique.


That is cattiness very similar to what High School girls do and doesn't deserve the title of "elitism."
A heathen, conceivably
but not,

I hope,
I’m not ashamed to be white
Vi doede ikke... vi har aldri levd
Barbarism is the natural state of mankind
Civilization is unnatural

It is a whim of circumstance
an unenlightened one
#33
You guys keep smelling your farts much longer you might pass out be careful out there.
KIFFLOM
#34
I do feel like addressing this since I have a good feeling this pertains to this very thread.

Quote by slipknot5678
lol @ the idea that metal is this 'dangerous' genre/subculture that 'normal' people aren't tough enough for.


Both of these quotes were misquoted and interpreted by you. I'm not going to take the internet seriously unless it involves me looking foolish.
#35
Quote by severed-metal
I do feel like addressing this since I have a good feeling this pertains to this very thread.


Both of these quotes were misquoted and interpreted by you. I'm not going to take the internet seriously unless it involves me looking foolish.


It did pertain to this thread. As I said in that post I did not intend on hiding that.

I do apologise for misinterpreting that. It is an attitude that I have seen from the few metal 'elitists' I know in real life. I think a large part of several music subcultures (I am not singling out metal) really just come off as machismo and discriminatory more than preserving 'authenticity'. But I will retract my statement as it applies to this thread since that was not what you meant.
#36
Metal elitists are the metal version of MRA reddit atheist neckbeards.
Someone is wrong on the internet. Only you can help.

Quote by Tulkas

Stairway is required on any list of anything involving the words guitar or song, I believe Congress amended the constitution in order to put it into federal law.
#37
I have a tendency to be elitist about everything I am passionate about. At some point I'll probably move past my elitist teenaged years, but until then I am happy telling people their taste is bad and they should feel bad.

Typically though I would agree that it's much more pleasing to actually discuss the music.

But more to the point, I don't know if it's important, but it probably is. In every artform. If only because it keeps some separation between things, such as the separation between Deafheaven and Bathory. Or Dimmu Borgir and Burzum.
#38
Quote by slipknot5678
I am an "outsider" of metal, though I understand the genre via my middle school days and some friends who stuck with it. You will be pleased to know that after years of denouncing them, I have come to the conclusion that Slipknot is a good band after all.

Elitism is bad and art should not be restricted by needless egotism.

there i used 'proper' punctuation and everything


**** off and die
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