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#1
I'm just another link in the chain of a chemical reaction that was going to happen since the start of time. It just so happens that part of that weird chemical reaction is to make me feel like I'm in charge but I'm really not.

Do we actually make conscious decisions or were the decisions we made bound to happen due to the velocities of the particles made from the beginning of time?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#3
we make half conscious decisions
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#5
Quote by captainsnazz
I would advise involving some h2o in that chemical reaction you've got going on


ot: much more complex forces than the velocities of particles determine the outcome of events

like a black man ****?

|(-_-)|
#6
Quote by captainsnazz
I would advise involving some h2o in that chemical reaction you've got going on


ot: much more complex forces than the velocities of particles determine the outcome of events


Do they though? There is a theory that if you know the position and velocity of every particle in the universe you can predict the outcome of everything.

In quantum theory, it turns out one doesn't need to know both the positions and the velocities. If one knew the laws of physics and the wave function at one time, then something called the Schrodinger equation would tell one how fast the wave function was changing with time. This would allow one to calculate the wave function at any other time. One can therefore claim that there is still determinism but it is determinism on a reduced level. (http://www.hawking.org.uk/godel-and-the-end-of-physics.html)

So from the beginning of the universe every particle or wavefunction was set on it's course throughout the rest of time, they will collide with other particles, reactions will happen etc. for all of time, but are they not determined by the positions and velocities of the particles at the very beginning of time? A massive chain reaction.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#8
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Do they though? There is a theory that if you know the position and velocity of every particle in the universe you can predict the outcome of everything.


Good luck doing that with me, I've always gone down the path that nobody would expect. For better and for worse, I am my own man.
Some see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. Me? I see that the glass is refillable.
#9
ruh oh, THERES GONNA BE ANOTHER PIT WAR!!

Also, I do what I want, But Its within the boundary of my intellect and environment.

So if free will means doing what ever you want without restriction of some sort, It doesn't exist.
KIFFLOM
Last edited by sonic_hippy at Sep 27, 2014,
#10
If that is the case then I suppose it's not your fault that you're a bellend
'And after a while, you can work on points for style.
Like the club tie, and the firm handshake,
A certain look in the eye and an easy smile.'

'You have to be trusted by the people that you lie to,
So that when they turn their backs on you,
You'll get the chance to put the knife in.'
#12
you have severely misinterpreted quantum mechanics.
i don't know why i feel so dry
#13
who cares mang?

if free will exists: hooray, we're actually responsible for our ****-ups
if it doesn't exist: you'll never have any insight into the laws that govern your future anyway, so why bother?
Quote by Telecaster7
Oh dear, current affairs...
#14
Quote by NewDayHappy
Good luck doing that with me, I've always gone down the path that nobody would expect. For better and for worse, I am my own man.


That is just a result of a billion particle collisions leading up to the moment at which the "decision" was made. You had no choice in it.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#15
Quote by Eastwinn
you have severely misinterpreted quantum mechanics.


Nah I'm thinking more classical physics, I never really got quantum mechanics anyway **** this particle in an infinite box shit.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#16
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Do they though? There is a theory that if you know the position and velocity of every particle in the universe you can predict the outcome of everything.

In quantum theory, it turns out one doesn't need to know both the positions and the velocities. If one knew the laws of physics and the wave function at one time, then something called the Schrodinger equation would tell one how fast the wave function was changing with time. This would allow one to calculate the wave function at any other time. One can therefore claim that there is still determinism but it is determinism on a reduced level. (http://www.hawking.org.uk/godel-and-the-end-of-physics.html)

So from the beginning of the universe every particle or wavefunction was set on it's course throughout the rest of time, they will collide with other particles, reactions will happen etc. for all of time, but are they not determined by the positions and velocities of the particles at the very beginning of time? A massive chain reaction.

If you can't determine something then it's not determinism.

determinism on a reduced level.


This makes no sense.
#17
you were created within God's burp when he finished his dry lunch
Quote by ErikLensherr
Did you hear about the cockney Godfather?

He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#18
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Nah I'm thinking more classical physics, I never really got quantum mechanics anyway **** this particle in an infinite box shit.


there is no reason to think classical physics

unless you want to say something dumb
i don't know why i feel so dry
#20
Quote by Eastwinn
there is no reason to think classical physics

unless you want to say something dumb

KIFFLOM
#21
Whether you do or not you should act as though you do have free will.

Quote by Stephen Hawking
I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.
Si
#22
Quote by EndTheRapture51
I'm just another link in the chain of a chemical reaction that was going to happen since the start of time. It just so happens that part of that weird chemical reaction is to make me feel like I'm in charge but I'm really not.

Do we actually make conscious decisions or were the decisions we made bound to happen due to the velocities of the particles made from the beginning of time?


I believe it is both.
#23
Quote by steve_muse
you were created within God's burp when he finished his dry lunch


God doesn't need to eat lunch.
Some see the glass half full, others see the glass half empty. Me? I see that the glass is refillable.
#24
Quote by 20Tigers
Whether you do or not you should act as though you do have free will.

boing
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#26
^thank you fedora vanhalaf
Quote by ErikLensherr
Did you hear about the cockney Godfather?

He made them an offer they couldn't understand.
#28
How we react when presented with information from our environment involves a very complex deliberation process.Very chaotic free as it gets.

The real question if a supreme being who has every detail figured out set us up to make bad decisions its like we were made to go to hell.Why would we be made so weak.

If theres a puppetmaster he pulls the strings soft
#29
Define "free will", the question doesn't make any sense otherwise. You might as well define free will as "not determinism" to make the point, but I don't think that would be a very good definition

Also https://www.ultimate-guitar.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1507910
#30
Well gonzaw, can we actually effect a change in the universe on a personal level? Can we change events with our electrical pulses and hormones and everything...or were those impulses just things that were going to happen anyway and are we just part of a chain reaction going on since the big bang and was everything bound to happen as it was if we plugged all the variables into a huge equation?

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#32
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Well gonzaw, can we actually effect a change in the universe on a personal level? Can we change events with our electrical pulses and hormones and everything...or were those impulses just things that were going to happen anyway and are we just part of a chain reaction going on since the big bang and was everything bound to happen as it was if we plugged all the variables into a huge equation?



Ok, define "you" (or "we" in that example).

Are "you" the product of all these deterministic chemical reactions? If so, by definition, there is nothing saying that determinism disproves "you" making any change in the universe, since it's you the one making the changes (even though "you" are determined by all the chemical and physical reactions occurring in your brain, body and environment).

If "you" are not that, then what are you?
#33
You as a consciousness and as an entity.

longing rusted furnace daybreak seventeen benign nine homecoming one freight car
#34
Quote by Stephen Hawking
I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined, and that we can do nothing to change it, look before they cross the road.


That's because those people have been brought up to always look around before crossing the road.

Me 1
Stephen Hawking 0
this
#35
"quantum" has to be the most unattractive word on the planet

that is all i have to say here




#36
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Well gonzaw, can we actually effect a change in the universe on a personal level? Can we change events with our electrical pulses and hormones and everything

Sure. I changed this thread by posting this.


Quote by EndTheRapture51
...or were those impulses just things that were going to happen anyway and are we just part of a chain reaction going on since the big bang and was everything bound to happen as it was if we plugged all the variables into a huge equation?

What do you "or"? What do you mean "anyway"? What do you mean "just"?
#38
well sometimes i fart and it goes back up my butt and sometimes i do it on purpose and sometimes i don't so who really knows man
bawitaba a bang a bang diggy diggy diggy sed the boogie sed up jump the boogie
#39
Quote by MinterMan22
"quantum" has to be the most unattractive word on the planet

that is all i have to say here


gotta agree
i don't know why i feel so dry
#40
Quote by zachacgt
How we react when presented with information from our environment involves a very complex deliberation process.Very chaotic free as it gets.

You could argue its still not free will. An unconscious or subconscious drive would still be reacting to the environment and the situations around but it wouldn't technically be free will because you wouldn't be consciously making the decision.

I'd have to find it if you want to see it but there was a study done about people making decisions while hooked up to an fMRI and the activity in their frontal lobe before they were conscious of even attempting to make the decision.

So you could effectively take a Nietzschean view of things and say that we're drivin by instinct more than a free will.
ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ raise your dongers ヽ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ノ
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