#1
So say if we was in c major could I instead play c aug and add the #5 in the scale? Same with dim instead of d minor could I play d dim7th and add the chanced notes? I know it would sound terrible lol. I've only been playing for 2 years.
Thanks
#2
But does it sound horrible? If you can make whatever you do work for you (aurally) then it doesn't matter what you do.

You'd be borrowing the III+ chord from the parrallel minor (harmonic). In your second question do you mean substituting a minor chord with a min7b5 or a full diminished chord. The harmonic function of the min7b5 and the full dimished 7th chords are different. The min7b5 chord in the right context pulls you towards the dominant. While the full diminished can be used a a dominant substitute.
#4
Depends what context the original chord is used in. If its a tonic chord (the main chord of your piece) then definitely not.

Basically chords can be grouped into 3 categories: stable, medium-drive and high-drive. Medium-drive create expectations in the listener that a stable chord will follow (up to you if you want to satisfy that expectation). High-drive create a more intense expectation for a stable chord to follow. Stable chords don't create any expectations ... the ear is happy with this being used for a long time (though watch out for boredom!!).

The above is a consequence of how intervals interact both within the chord and against the tonal centre (the root of the scale you've chosen to use for your main chord repetoire) and that tonic chord.

So, a chord progression can go from stable to either of the other groups. medium can go to high to build more expectation, or to stable to satisfy the expectation. High-drive can go to medium to start satisfying the expectation, or to stable to satisfy the listener (or to another high drive to racxk up yet more expectation).

There's nothing hard and fast to the above ... you may start a song off with a high drive for interest. But normally the progression wanders around through the stable chordsm visiting the other types more or less frequently, depending how much energy you want to impart.

The chord types involved depend on which scale they derive from (if they are diatonic).

For most common scales, the chords rooted off the 1, the 3rd (b3 rd) as matches the scale) and the 6th (b6 th) as suits the scale, are stable. 1 is the most stable.

Non-diatonic (e.g wrong chord type, such as minor rather than major, or rooted off a non-scale note, puts that chord in the high-drive category.

Here's an example in mostly Emaj

E F#m7 | E F#m7 | Gaug C#m7 | A Dmaj7 | E Faug | G#m7b9 | Amaj7b5/B E

(see attached gpx)

The G aug is very intense (high drive) ... G forms a b3 with E, but E major contains a 3 (the G#). Major key chords don't include augmented. Likewise the F aug.

So, above, I resolved the G aug back to a stable chord (C#m7, rooted off the 6th of E major. In major keys, the I, iii and vi chords are all stable, with I the most stable). iii roots off the 3rd of a major scale. vi roots off the 6th of a major scale. SImilarly I resolved the F aug (high-drive) to a stable chord, the iii of E (G#m7b9 ... I added the b9 for a bit more of a bite). The final chord is an incomplete B13, a high-drive chord in the key of E, to move back to E to finish.

For slight additional flavour, I added D maj7 in the middle. Again, D is not in E major (D forms a b7 with E. But the chord type maj7 IS a chord derived from the major scale. So, it too is a high drive chord, and the E follows to satisfy the expectation.

Music has a huge amount to do with creating and satisfting expectations in the listener, and learning to control this to capture the listener emotionally.

cheers, Jerry
Attachments:
G aug in E maj.gp5
G aug in E maj.gpx
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Oct 1, 2014,
#6
Yea I guess you could but it's going to sound mostly like shit. The opposite is more common, substituting Aug for Maj
#7
I've noticed something recently with this. Let's use the key of C to illustrate it.

I've noticed that the fifth chord (G) when given the G7 variant, is made up quite a lot like the Bdim. The notes of the G are G, B, D, F, usual playing order is G, D, F, B; While the Bdmin notes are B, D, F, (A), playing order B, F, A, D. So it's essentially a G7add2 without the G bass, which makes it a Bdim. But the similarities are interesting to see.

Other than that, you can substitute other chords with aug/dim variants, but you have to have the right musical presupposition for it. I wouldn't do this kind of thing with 4-chord music. Jazz does this a lot, though.
#8
Quote by Will Lane

I've noticed that the fifth chord (G) when given the G7 variant, is made up quite a lot like the Bdim. The notes of the G are G, B, D, F, usual playing order is G, D, F, B; While the Bdmin notes are B, D, F, (A), playing order B, F, A, D. So it's essentially a G7add2 without the G bass, which makes it a Bdim. But the similarities are interesting to see.

You've just discovered the cornerstone of chord function. Different chords in a tonal context can function in the exact same way. Some theorists will even (questionably) define a diminished triad as a dominant seventh chord without a root. The important bit for this particular observation though is that V7 and viidim both contain the same tritone: the one diatonically created between scale degree 4 and 7. 4 resolves down the 3 and 7 up to 8. Bob's your uncle and you have a dominant to tonic progression.
#9
What jazzed_feel_organization said. If you play a V6/5 (first inversion seventh) and leave out the root, what you're left with is a vii halfdim chord. It's impossible not to see half dims as rootless seventh chords and full dims as 7b9.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Oct 2, 2014,
#10
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
You've just discovered the cornerstone of chord function. Different chords in a tonal context can function in the exact same way. Some theorists will even (questionably) define a diminished triad as a dominant seventh chord without a root. The important bit for this particular observation though is that V7 and viidim both contain the same tritone: the one diatonically created between scale degree 4 and 7. 4 resolves down the 3 and 7 up to 8. Bob's your uncle and you have a dominant to tonic progression.


Yea this. It's all about the "tritone resolution" magn. viidim and V7 function the same. You'll notice playing B fully diminished is like G7b9
#11
Quote by Elintasokas
What jazzed_feel_organization said. If you play a V6/5 (first inversion seventh) and leave out the root, what you're left with is a vii halfdim chord. It's impossible not to see half dims as rootless seventh chords and full dims as 7b9.


A really nice source of ideas for soloing against a regular dom7 chord is using the related m7b5 arpeggio (e.g C#m7b5 against A7) and also using the locrian (C# locrian), and really emphasing that sound.

This works well too where the dom chord is just being grooved on (so its root is setting the tonal centre, so we have I7, not V7), rather than being used as a setup chord.