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#1
So I'm teaching myself how to read music..I was recommended to start with bach chorales here. http://www.pjb.com.au/mus/arr/a4/satb_chorales.pdf

My question is, do the bass clef and the treble clef need to be played simutaniously..it just seems weird that some of the matching clefs appear to have different key signatures based on the # or b at the beginning of the clef....Also what are the guidelines for which position the use for each clef...sometimes when I make the chord written down it is either a huge stretch, and sometimes not even physically possible.
#2
Yes the treble and bass clef need to be read simultaneously. And the reason why they appear to have different key signatures is because they are read differently. The notes don't correspond to the same line but don't worry, they match.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d3/Bass_and_Treble_clef.svg/1280px-Bass_and_Treble_clef.svg.png

The picture is too big for me to post but it shows the notes for each line and space for both the treble and bass clef.
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Of The


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#3
I play classical guitar so huge stretches aren't that all uncommon but if there seems to be unnaturally huge stretches, you're probably playing the right note on the wrong string, or you have the wrong note altogether considering you thought the bass and treble clef are read exactly the same.
If Rock is a life-style, then Metal's an addiction

Yelloooow!


Of The


UG Challenge

#4
What do you mean the bass and treble clef have different key signatures? Also do you mean the chords are a big stretch on guitar? Because this is arranged for piano not guitar so I imagine lots of the chords don't work.
#5
Ehh, you're JUST STARTING with sight reading and already trying to read two clefs simultaneously? Bad idea. You will have a hard time reading just one melody line and staying in time, trust me. Start with something really simple.
#6
Quote by tyle12
So I'm teaching myself how to read music..I was recommended to start with Bach chorales

Who the hell recommended that?

Start with something that's really simple, like Mary Had A Little Lamb or Row, Row, Row Your Boat or Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star. These songs all have simple, easy (single) melody lines.

Sheet music:
Mary Had A Little Lamb
Row, Row, Row Your Boat
Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 1, 2014,
#9
Thanks lazy latino (lol). I'm not a complete newb to reading music. I did it for a month with piano about a year ago. I'm going to continue with these chorales now that my main issue is cleared up.
#10
Quote by Elintasokas
Ehh, you're JUST STARTING with sight reading and already trying to read two clefs simultaneously? Bad idea. You will have a hard time reading just one melody line and staying in time, trust me. Start with something really simple.


You said it before I did. This is the one real answer.

I read what he said, and just shook my head...

Hopefully he makes it more simple on himself.

Best,

Sean
#11
Quote by tyle12
Thanks lazy latino (lol). I'm not a complete newb to reading music. I did it for a month with piano about a year ago. I'm going to continue with these chorales now that my main issue is cleared up.

Oh, boy.../shakes head
#13
man the arrogance on these boards is just oozing out of the screen here. I asked a question and everyone jumps on board at how I'm doing it wrong. If all you want to do is criticize what you hear maybe you should check yourself. A bunch of internet know it all's too emotionally repressed to find tension release in a healthy way coming onto the internet boards to make themselves feel worthy is not going to solve your egotistical problems.

I can read somewhat decently, the fact that one of the clefs moves by a third is not reason for me to regress back to twinkle twinkle little star.
Last edited by tyle12 at Oct 1, 2014,
#14
Quote by tyle12
man the arrogance on these boards is just oozing out of the screen here. I asked a question and everyone jumps on board at how I'm doing it wrong. If all you want to do is criticize what you hear maybe you should check yourself. A bunch of internet know it all's too emotionally repressed to find tension release in a healthy way coming onto the internet boards to make themselves feel worthy is not going to solve your egotistical problems.

I can read somewhat decently, the fact that one of the clefs moves by a third is not reason for me to regress back to twinkle twinkle little star.

You can ignore the douchedom, but I'm confused by how you're using the chorales as reading exercises. Are you reading each individual melody line or attempting to play the actual chorales? Because playing the chorales won't be practical for you at all as they're not arranged for guitar and I imagine won't translate well. The point of the suggestions up to now were to get you reading something that made more sense for you to be reading than chorales.
#15
Quote by tyle12
man the arrogance on these boards is just oozing out of the screen here. I asked a question and everyone jumps on board at how I'm doing it wrong. If all you want to do is criticize what you hear maybe you should check yourself. A bunch of internet know it all's too emotionally repressed to find tension release in a healthy way coming onto the internet boards to make themselves feel worthy is not going to solve your egotistical problems.

I can read somewhat decently, the fact that one of the clefs moves by a third is not reason for me to regress back to twinkle twinkle little star.


It's not arrogance. It's when you get advice because you cant understand a basic point and are lost and we say start on simple melodies, and you respond with, "Back to chorales", that we shake our head.

No one's putting you down, and it's not about ego. If you can't understand clef assignments, you're not ready for friggin Chorales, and no one here is being arrogant about it. Just because you can say the word doesn't mean you can do them without some level of pre-requisite and understanding. And a month of piano lessons a year ago isn't it.

There's nothing arrogant about it.

Best,

Sean
#16
(response for Jazz_feel) Perhaps that was the hidden purpose they were trying to convey to me, but it's so obviously cloaked in a thick goopy mask of pretentiousness it makes it difficult to take in.
Last edited by tyle12 at Oct 1, 2014,
#17
Also this is an exercise for 2 other things..note locating, and chord identifying. Not simply just to be able to sight read.
#18
Quote by tyle12
Also this is an exercise for 2 other things..note locating, and chord identifying. Not simply just to be able to sight read.

Ok, but how do you expect to do this when you're still having issues with reading the bass clef? We're not trying to put you down or be arrogant towards you. It's just that we've been where you were and made some mistakes (and received advice from more experience musicians). We're trying to help you avoid mistakes.

If you want to learn note locating and chord identifying, fine. But you should probably simplify things. Bach's chorales are really not a good pieces to learn 3 things at once, especially when you're not 100% familiar with the bass clef.

Edit:
To put it simply, you're trying to run before you can walk.
#20
you don't READ bach chorales

you LIVE them

#skooled

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#21
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
We're not trying to put you down or be arrogant towards you.

buuuuuuullllllllsssshhhhhhiiiiiiiiitttttt.
Quote by Sean0913
You said it before I did. This is the one real answer.

I read what he said, and just shook my head...

Hopefully he makes it more simple on himself.

Best,

Sean

Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Oh, boy.../shakes head


Quote by Sean0913
Yep... I hear you.

Best,

Sean
#22
Quote by Elintasokas
Oh, it just keeps getting better. Starting with chorales using 4 voices and 2 clefs while not even knowing the note locations on the whole fretboard. Good luck.


To be fair, he probably DOES know the note locations on the fretboard, as he took my Notes course, earlier this year, but then he asked for a refund because although he said it was "great" it was "too easy" to learn and use, and I guess that worked against me.

He did get his refund. Only the second request ever in 4 years online. But I keep my word. I just never thought I'd see the day that someone wanted a refund because it wasn't difficult enough

Best,

Sean
Last edited by Sean0913 at Oct 1, 2014,
#23
Quote by jazz_rock_feel
buuuuuuullllllllsssshhhhhhiiiiiiiiitttttt.

No, honestly, we're not. Or, at least, I'm not. I'm sure Sean can speak for himself.
Edit: I know I can be very blunt, but I don't mean it as an asshole thing.

But how can we help someone who decided to just chuck all previous advice out the window? You've been around long enough to know this kind of thing happens all the time. Hell, iirc, you were involved in a lot of the advice giving end of this exact type of situation.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 1, 2014,
#24
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
No, honestly, we're not. Or, at least, I'm not. I'm sure Sean can speak for himself.

But how can we help someone who decided to just chuck all previous advice out the window? You've been around long enough to know this kind of thing happens all the time. Hell, iirc, you were involved in a lot of the advice giving end of this exact type of situation.


Yeah, as I said, you posted what I would have said, before me, I was just affirming what you wrote.

And my shaking my head the first time, wasn't at HIM it was at the person that gave him ADVICE re: "I was recommended to start with Bach chorales". Bad advice only costs the person who listens to it. And I also expressed that "Hopefully he makes it more simple on himself." by HEEDING the advice he's been given by more than myself about, NOT going to Chorales.

The second time, yes, my head was shaking when, after all that, he says "Well, BACK to studying Chorales".

So, Jazz rock, know whereof you speak, before calling me out. If I'm wrong and an ass, I'll own it.

That wasn't the case or intent here.

Best,

Sean
#26
Quote by Sean0913
To be fair, he probably DOES know the note locations on the fretboard, as he took my Notes course, earlier this year, but then he asked for a refund because although he said it was "great" it was "too easy" to learn and use, and I guess that worked against me.

He did get his refund. Only the second request ever in 4 years online. But I keep my word. I just never thought I'd see the day that someone wanted a refund because it wasn't difficult enough

Best,

Sean


again...I guess years of trying to hide your superiority complex have developed quite well to the point where you can hide it behind something as stupid as me getting a refund for your wrongfully marketed product. Also giving yourself kudos by saying "I keep my word" and adding a smug smiley face at the end.

You claims that you can't even live up to (the last thread you offered help to me which I accepted and then when I stated my practice your response was "Oh it looks like you are doing well, carry on").
#27
you guys are claiming that you're not arrogant, but people still think you are. Doesn't that reflect on something about you, regardless of what you think of yourselves?
it's all just coming back
it's all coming back

it's all coming back to me
#29
Quote by Baby Joel
you guys are claiming that you're not arrogant, but people still think you are. Doesn't that reflect on something about you, regardless of what you think of yourselves?

Or maybe it speaks of people expecting to walk before they run.
Last edited by crazysam23_Atax at Oct 1, 2014,
#30
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Or maybe it speaks of people expecting to walk before they run.

"It's not me, its them" - delusional troll

Also you mixed your words up.
#31
Quote by tyle12
"It's not me, its them" - delusional troll

Ok, whatever. I'm not sure where me or Sean (or Elintasokas, for that matter) were trolling you. But clearly you don't want help. Have a nice life. I won't be bothering with this thread anymore.
#32
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Ok, whatever. I'm not sure where me or Sean (or Elintasokas, for that matter) were trolling you. But clearly you don't want help. Have a nice life. I won't be bothering with this thread anymore.


There's helping, and then there's being an as*hole.
#33
Quote by Baby Joel
you guys are claiming that you're not arrogant, but people still think you are. Doesn't that reflect on something about you, regardless of what you think of yourselves?


Nope - the world is full of stupid people. That sounds arrogant, but, I learned years ago, people ultimately believe what they want to believe no matter what you ever say, and stupidity is a choice.

I have a lot more respect for people who can go beyond that and actually are teachable, and can at least appreciate a different perspective. If they can't do that, their opinion holds little weight for me.

What reflects upon me, are the people that know me. An outsiders point of view is just that. Outside. And in my life, in my school, in all the people that know me and have talked with me and come into contact with me, or been taught by me, I haven't got one enemy or person that has anything bad to say about me. And that to me, does matter.

@tyle - If you say so. I guess that's why there's a thing called truth. One of us has it and practices it. The other person resorts to lies. I need not worry.

Best,

Sean
#34
Quote by Sean0913
Nope - the world is full of stupid people. That sounds arrogant, but, I learned years ago, people ultimately believe what they want to believe no matter what you ever say, and stupidity is a choice.

I have a lot more respect for people who can go beyond that and actually are teachable, and can at least appreciate a different perspective. If they can't do that, their opinion holds little weight for me.

What reflects upon me, are the people that know me. An outsiders point of view is just that. Outside. And in my life, in my school, in all the people that know me and have talked with me and come into contact with me, or been taught by me, I haven't got one enemy or person that has anything bad to say about me. And that to me, does matter.

@tyle - If you say so. I guess that's why there's a thing called truth. One of us has it and practices it. The other person resorts to lies. I need not worry.

Best,

Sean


You remind me of the SanFranciscan's in the south park episode.
#35
Bass and Treble Clef read differently, and they need to played at the same time.

You will more than likely not be able to do it on a guitar. Thusly, you will gain zero sight reading skill from a Bach Chorale. If you are trying to improve this, run far away from the chorales and go get a Clarinet book.

Now it IS true you will gain note and chord recognition skills from Bach Chorales, and I understand why you were recommended them thus, but there are certain red flags everyone has already mentioned, and you should probably start smaller, the chorales can get pretty advanced.

You can start with super hard stuff, we can't stop you. That is, after all the fastest way to achieve burnout.

And for the record, no one in MT is necessarily arrogant, but maybe just hyper opinionated. It can be counterproductive, but not as much as arguing about it is.

And you should know, one month is not enough sight reading to take you out of "newb" territory. It takes YEARS.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#36
I like to apologize for any derogatory comments I made. Hasn't been the best week and people are weak and stupid, including me. Hopefully we can all be less of a d*ck.
#37
Quote by tyle12
I like to apologize for any derogatory comments I made. Hasn't been the best week and people are weak and stupid, including me. Hopefully we can all be less of a d*ck.

And I apologize if I offended you.
#38
Yeah but everyone who comes here cant stand you lot so its not everyone else
Last edited by willT08 at Oct 1, 2014,
#39
Will don't ruin it! MT is having a group breakthrough

Everyone is doing great.
"There are two styles of music. Good music and bad music." -Duke Ellington

"If you really think about it, the guitar is a pointless instrument." - Robert Fripp
#40
Quote by willT08
Yeah but everyone who comes here cant stand you lot so its not everyone else

Speak for yourself, bud.
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