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#1
Hey fellas (and ladies),

I've been thinking lately that I need to increase my tonal capabilities. I've been debating on adding a second guitar or a new amp head to my collection (and of course, we all know that BOTH is really the only long-term solution).

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase. I've got metal covered quite well -- which is what I play almost all the time (see sig for rig details). In addition to converting my 6505+ 112 into a head, I cut the original combo box to make it a smaller 112 cab.

I am not only interested in having a smaller rig with which to travel, I also want it to cover the tonal ground that my 6505+ lacks. Namely, I want EXCELLENT cleans. I like warm, darker cleans as opposed to bright and zingy. That is the priority for this amp. I would like to go all-tube, or close to it, and an effects loop is almost a necessity as well. I don't need crystal clear cleans at stadium volume, but I'd like enough headroom to play reasonably loud and clean.

Next, I'd like to be able to get a nice, vintage crunch sound (Marshally is kind of what I prefer). Two channels would be ideal -- one clean, the other overdrive. I've got two ODs and an MXR 10-band to coax a little more gain out of it if need be.

***Edit: While cleans are a priority, I'd like the overdrive to have enough gain for hard rock, i.e. -- AC/DC; GnR ..... NOT all the way to thrash as previously stated. My 6505+ will take over from there. The effects loop is not mandatory if the amp will take pedals such as reverb and delay okay up front.

I like the idea of a 20-30 watt mini-head. So far I've looked at the Peavey Valveking Micro-head and the Classic 30 head (would have to go used for one of those, as it looks like it's now available only as a combo).

Budget is around $300-350 U.S. and I am very willing to go used. Discuss...
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
Last edited by KailM at Oct 8, 2014,
#2
If you can stretch a bit the demos of the krank 1980 the lil guy are pretty sweet don't know if its two channel though. Out of the two you have in mind I'd go VK.
Mesa Boogie Single Rectoverb 50 series 2 combo
Randall RM100
Peavey 5150 4x12
Peavey XXX 2x12 combo
Pedals
#3
^^Thanks, I'll check it out. Has anybody tried the Egnater Tweaker 15? That one looks like a possibility.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#4
I was gonna suggest the Egnater Vengeance, except it isnt a mini-amp; though it does have a half power option of 60 watts. I have one, and i think it meets all of your other criteria. Plus, ive seen them sell on ebay for as low as $450. I bought mine brand new for 1100 :facepalm
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#5
Don't know what the price tag is, but I tried out a Vox Night Train at a music store a while back, pretty wide range of tonal capabilities in a small head, 15 watts I think, and proabably loud enough for small to mid size clubs, all tube, 4 to 16 ohm speaker impedance range, several different settings for various tones, good cleans and some really good overdrive sounds...pretty impressive little amp. And yeah it's a head. The one they had set up to try was plugged into a 1x12 cabinet. Probably also has a footswitch available, but I didn't ask. But if I could afford a new amp, that one would be way up toward the top of my short list. Enough tonal diversity to probably make anyone happy.
Hmmm...I wonder what this button does...
#6
How about a 5W'er?

http://www.baroncustomamps.com/snott.php


Alternatively, there's always the Randall RM20 or RM22. They can be anything you want them to be. All you have to do is throw in the module you want. And of course, later you can change it into something else. You want to expand your palette? Buy more modules. It can be anything from a Supra to a Recto
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
Last edited by Cathbard at Oct 6, 2014,
#7
in my opinion, what you want is not possible for 350.

you can get high gain or not high gain. take a good cleans, classic rock box, or take a gained out amp which...pretty much does gain. not as good as your 6505. pretty much leaving you with not additional tones you could have just done with your 6505.....

your in a no mans land constrianed by price.
____

high gain out of it...your in vox night train territory which is a great little box. with the thick setting and a boost, you can get into fuzzy/ gritty rock awesomeness.

thrash? meh. thats a stretch.
Carvin CT624
Walden G630ce Acoustic
Carvin V3M, Avatar 2x12 WGS Reaper, vet 30
(crybaby, Fairfield circuitry Comp, GFS tuner, Vick Audio 73 Ram's Head, Xotic AC booster, lovepedal trem, TC Flashback, PGS Trinity Reverb, Walrus Audio Aetos power)
#8
Oh, $350? Sorry, what I posted is out of your league,
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#9
Krank 1980 Jr or Stiff 90-AD (basically same amp)Pretty rare, but I bought mine for $300 from GC. Nice cleans and a JCM800 style dirty channel. Footswitchable channels and a very good FX loop. Loud enough for most any gigging musician, 20 watts from 2x 6L6's
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
Well, I should really clarify that my $350 budget was with the expectation of finding something used, probably from GC because of their return policy. That budget could be stretched as well -- I'm not in an extreme hurry to get this.

Also, maybe I'm being unrealistic about getting superb cleans and thrash distortion. I guess thrash tone isn't really as important as good cleans and warm crunch. I suppose GnR/AC/DC levels of gain would be just fine. I can play thrash whenever I want with my 6505.

So yeah, warm, darker cleans, and bluesy crunch all the way up to hard rock is what I'm after.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#12
^^That looks cool; checked out a youtube on it and the higher gain sounds good, but I haven't heard any cleans yet.

I checked out the Vox Night Train as well and really dig the crunch/overdrive, not sure I like the cleans though. I'd have to try one I think.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#13
Quote by KailM
^^That looks cool; checked out a youtube on it and the higher gain sounds good, but I haven't heard any cleans yet.

I checked out the Vox Night Train as well and really dig the crunch/overdrive, not sure I like the cleans though. I'd have to try one I think.

The cleans are useable, but it is only 1 channel so you can't have both at the same time unfortunately.
The 1980 Jr seems like it would fit the bill for you perfectly if you can find one here is the combo which is really rare, but they want to much for it
www.ebay.com/itm/KRANK-1980-50-Watts-Tube-Combo-Amplifier-1-x-12-U-S-A-/390646207604?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5af4541474
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#15
Sell everything and buy an RM100.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#16
i mean literally...you are stuck. the closest i am thinking may be a used jet city 2 channel. even then, it still may not have as good crunch of your 6505 and perhaps, just, normally good cleans? usable cleans? probably better than your 6505?

but again, what is that really getting you? i feel the same with the crank.

honestly, im thinking a low gain head with pedals. or however somebody like queens of stone age is getting his tone. hes using vintage amps. study that. get a really bad*ss fuzz, or some knarly FX. get something like a vox night train and run that.
Carvin CT624
Walden G630ce Acoustic
Carvin V3M, Avatar 2x12 WGS Reaper, vet 30
(crybaby, Fairfield circuitry Comp, GFS tuner, Vick Audio 73 Ram's Head, Xotic AC booster, lovepedal trem, TC Flashback, PGS Trinity Reverb, Walrus Audio Aetos power)
#17
What about a used XXX/JSX or 3120? You can get heads on GC used for your budget from time to time (like now). The XXX is basically like a Classic 30 for the cleans and if you get the JSX/XXX II you can get thrash (Havok) out of that as well.

It seems like the cleans are more of what you're really looking for here so if you have to compromise on the crunch just boost it or run a dirt pedal.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#18
Hmm blues junior? That'll do the 350$ on used. I beleive it lack an effect loops however.
#19
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Maybe what you should do is sell your 6505 and just get an amp that covers everything you need, like say a...


5153


Nah -- I've tried a 5150 III (100 watt) and didn't like it. I mean, the cleans were good, but the br00tz were not to my liking -- not at all like my 6505 -- too clean and refined or something...

If I was going to get something for everything I'd do it right -- a Diezel VH4 or something from Engl. No money for that, unfortunately.

Also, I am a bit sentimental about my 6505. It was my first tube amp, and my grandfather built me a head box for it and I finished it. He is not going to be around for a whole lot longer, plus I would not get that much for it anyway. I'd prefer to just keep it, and I do very much enjoy the high-gain tone out of it.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#20
A lot of great suggestions guys -- keep them coming! I do think that a lower-gain head is what I'm after. I edited my original post to say that 'thrash' levels of gain are not really what I need. My 6505 will do that.

My goals are to play nice cleans (with my reverb and delay pedals -- and if those work well without an effects loop, then it doesn't have to have one). I'll also be playing blues/blues rock, classic rock, and all the way up to harder rock such as AC/DC and GnR (that level of gain).

Also, the reason I'd like to keep it a mini-head is that I already have a decent 112 cab (made from my 6505+ combo shell). In the summers I do custom patios and rock walls as a business and often spend weeks away from home and like to pack my guitar, but don't always have a lot of room. I am also a schoolteacher and like to take my rig to school from time to time for afterschool lessons and simply to play for my students. Packing the whole 6505 + even my 112 cab and pedalboard gets old after awhile. I'd like to be able to just grab the smaller cab, a small head, and 1 or 2 pedals and go.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#21
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#23
The Classic 30 looks like a good choice considering you only want a head and your budget. It'll do warm clean. And its overdrive will get you right in between the 6505 and cleans.
#24
save up a little more and get a rect-o-verb.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

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#26
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
Yeah. Shit, I got my Rectoverb head for $490.


did mesas even make single rec combos? or just the rect-o-verb?

i paid like $750 for my Trem-OVerb (head) but the tremolo isn't worth having... lol. but IMO it does sound better in a normal Rec. the voicing are different.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#27
Quote by KailM
Hey fellas (and ladies),

I've been thinking lately that I need to increase my tonal capabilities. I've been debating on adding a second guitar or a new amp head to my collection (and of course, we all know that BOTH is really the only long-term solution).

Anyway, I'll cut to the chase. I've got metal covered quite well -- which is what I play almost all the time (see sig for rig details). In addition to converting my 6505+ 112 into a head, I cut the original combo box to make it a smaller 112 cab.

I am not only interested in having a smaller rig with which to travel, I also want it to cover the tonal ground that my 6505+ lacks. Namely,
I want EXCELLENT cleans. I like warm, darker cleans as opposed to bright and zingy. That is the priority for this amp. I would like to go all-tube, or close to it, and an effects loop is almost a necessity as well. I don't need crystal clear cleans at stadium volume, but I'd like enough headroom to play reasonably loud and clean.

Next, I'd like to be able to get a nice, vintage crunch sound (Marshally is kind of what I prefer). Two channels would be ideal -- one clean, the other overdrive. I've got two ODs and an MXR 10-band to coax a little more gain out of it if need be.

***Edit: While cleans are a priority, I'd like the overdrive to have enough gain for hard rock, i.e. -- AC/DC; GnR ..... NOT all the way to thrash as previously stated. My 6505+ will take over from there. The effects loop is not mandatory if the amp will take pedals such as reverb and delay okay up front.

I like the idea of a 20-30 watt mini-head. So far I've looked at the Peavey Valveking Micro-head and the Classic 30 head (would have to go used for one of those, as it looks like it's now available only as a combo).

Budget is around $300-350 U.S. and I am very willing to go used. Discuss...

Used GC used to have a bunch of Riveras for silly prices but I noticed they came up a bit the past few months.

For what you posted there, consider the Rivera K100 ($400 CL ~3 years ago), or a K55, if you see one (initial model not the Series 2). Amazing Cleans, takes pedals well, nice vintage Crunch although an 800 will have a snarlier Mid. I use an RFT in V1 to darken it a bit or a 9th Gen Shuguang for even more Gain, which it has a lot. Bass is tight and even a 7-string with stock PUs will retain its clarity.

However, it's not portable or small. Or get a Deliverance 60 just because.


#28
What you want is the Peavey VK Mico. Seriously. If you want dark pristine cleans, nothing else comes close in that price range. Even out of that price range, very few amps have cleans that aren't bright or harsh. The ValveKing is criminally underrated when it comes to cleans. And yeah it has a gain channel that'll put out the gain you want. But you should probably just get a good pedal to use on the clean channel honestly. Like the cleans, the gain is dark, and loose, and not really that pleasant to use.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#30
Quote by Offworld92
What you want is the Peavey VK Mico. Seriously. If you want dark pristine cleans, nothing else comes close in that price range. Even out of that price range, very few amps have cleans that aren't bright or harsh. The ValveKing is criminally underrated when it comes to cleans. And yeah it has a gain channel that'll put out the gain you want. But you should probably just get a good pedal to use on the clean channel honestly. Like the cleans, the gain is dark, and loose, and not really that pleasant to use.



Do you think between my TS-9, MXR M77, MXR 10-band, and HM-2 I could get some good low to mid-gain sounds? ( I know what my HM-2 would do to it ).

I have played a Valveking 112 in the past and didn't think the gain channel was that bad, but that was a long time ago (when my tonal palette was not quite developed) and after a salesman told me to try some little Fender for death metal. After entertaining myself for a few minutes on the Fender, the Valveking sounded quite outstanding for metal.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#31
Im not much of a clean player and lack ear for good clean tones but even I can say that the cleans on my Valveking are excellent. If the new VKs are similar then i think thats what you should be after.

ESP LTD F-50 + Tonezone
Cort EVL-Z4 + X2N
Cort EVL-K47B

Marshall Valvestate 8100
Randall RG1503
Bugera 333
Peavey Rockmaster preamp

Line6 Pod X3
#32
Or how about the good ol' reliable Classic 30/50?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#33
Quote by Cathbard
Or how about the good ol' reliable Classic 30/50?


i would have to recommend them. they are solid durable and a nice clean and
and if cleans are really important look into a roland JC120 or a 70's Music Man (company was started by leo fender after he left fender, g&L are the guitar part of the line.)
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#34
Quote by KailM
Do you think between my TS-9, MXR M77, MXR 10-band, and HM-2 I could get some good low to mid-gain sounds? ( I know what my HM-2 would do to it ).

I have played a Valveking 112 in the past and didn't think the gain channel was that bad, but that was a long time ago (when my tonal palette was not quite developed) and after a salesman told me to try some little Fender for death metal. After entertaining myself for a few minutes on the Fender, the Valveking sounded quite outstanding for metal.


Absolutely. I have an M77 myself, and it is quite good as a standalone.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#35
Got my rectoverb combo at 400 bones just got to be patient.
Mesa Boogie Single Rectoverb 50 series 2 combo
Randall RM100
Peavey 5150 4x12
Peavey XXX 2x12 combo
Pedals
#36
Quote by Cathbard
Or how about the good ol' reliable Classic 30/50?


Yeah, I just need to play one. I've watched a lot of Youtube vids on those and they seem just right for what I'm after -- but nothing replaces actually playing an amp. If I can find one in the head format, that might be perfect.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#37
I was disappointed when I actually got around to playing a Classic 30. They're fantastic amps and I'll still rec them whenever appropriate, but they're just like all the other amps out there rec'd for their cleans - bright, can be harsh/breakup-y. Not dark and lush like the VK is.

The only other amps, to my ears, that contend with the VK doing that kind of tone are the Fender Deluxe Reverb, and the Mesa Lonestar. Which are in a different league and pricerange.

You could ditch your 6505 and get a Randall RM.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
Fractured Instinct
(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#38
^^That helps a lot -- thank you. I'll still try to demo a Classic 30, but I'm really pretty adamant about darker cleans that are warm and lush. I've never been a fan of bright, jangly cleans -- though they are appropriate for some genres. I do a lot of ambient/shoegaze stuff in addition to or blended with metal and "bright" just doesn't work for me in that department.

For my bluesy clean playing, I prefer a more "jazzy" tone; again, darker and warmer rather than bright and jangly. I'm really going to have to try a Valveking Micro...
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
#39
Don't know if you have an interface or not but the free version of Revalver comes with the ValveKing emulation. You could always give that a go if you can't actually play a real one.
Guitars:
Jackson Kelly KE3 - MIJ (Distortion/Jazz)
Jackson DKMGT Dinky (EMG 81/85)
ESP E-II Eclipse Custom (JB/'59)
ESP LTD EC-1001FR (EMG 81/60)
Fender MIM Strat

Amps:
Mesa/Boogie Dual Rectifier Roadster 212
Laney IronHeart IRT-Studio
Peavey Vypyr 30
Peavey ReValver Amp Sims
TOOOO many T.C. Electronic Pedals. . .
#40
I tried a Classic 30 today (the combo). It sounded damn good! The cleans were not overwhelming, but far better than my 6505. I was also surprised at how much gain it actually had available. I want to bring my TS-9 to the store and give it a whirl.

How do yoi guys think the Valveking Micro's cleans would compare?
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood
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