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#1
Here's something to learn about if you want to get angry.

So this happened:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsW-QCxXkQA

Full story here: http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2014/10/07/hammond-family-sues-police-for-excessive-force-during-traffic-stop/


A quick rundown:

> In September, a couple (with kids in the car) were pulled over by the police for a traffic stop.
> Although not strictly relevant, it is worth noting that they were on their way to the hospital, as they were informed that the woman's mother was literally dying.
> The woman (Lisa Mahone) admitted to not wearing a seatbelt, hoping to just get a ticket fast and get out of there (to see her mum before she died), which she told the police about.
> The police asked for her boyfriend's (Jamal Jones) ID. He didn't have it, as he'd recently been given a traffic ticket. He reached to the backseat to get the ticket, and the police immediately drew their guns.
> They asked Jones to get out of the car, and he refused. He (obviously) felt unsafe in the situation and didn't want to put himself further in danger.
> After a while, one of the police officers smashes the window, tasered Jones, and then arrested him, for resisting arrest (???)


All of that can be found in the article I linked, as well as some more details. Please read it to get the whole story. The couple are suing, and the lawsuit is also linked if you are interested.


Some things of note:

1. The police did not have a charge for arrest. As such, anyone stopped can refuse to step out of their vehicle.

2. The police did not issue an arrest. As such, Jamal Jones cannot (or at least, shouldn't) be charged with resisting the arrest.

3. Although I cannot say this definitively, I am willing to bet that had the couple been white, there would have been no issue, and the couple would have been allowed to continue to the hospital.


Discuss if you want to discuss. There really isn't much to say, I mean it's all in the video and the article.

this is one of those bittersweet moments of social media though. The 14 year old son was recording the incident on his phone, and that's really how we are able to see it unfold in its entirety. So it's good that we are able to find out about things like this, as it encourages and demands more accountability from the police. On the other hand though, it also fosters hate and negative feelings towards those that we should (but aren't always able to) trust. Obviously though, the police really need to sort themselves out.


Anyway, I'm disgusted.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#3
Quote by MapOfYourHead
Pro-tip: don't live in 'merica

I've lived in America my whole life and never once had trouble with the police. Being black in america is probably not the best idea though.
#6
down with america
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#8
absolute scum. glad they recorded it though, that means that they probably (but who knows) will face some sort of sanction, hopefully pretty severe as opposed to this getting no attention otherwise and the officer's bullshit words being taken over the citizens' just because they're cops
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#9
Ferguson. That is all.

Quote by Bob_Sacamano
absolute scum. glad they recorded it though, that means that they probably (but who knows) will face some sort of sanction,

they won't
Quote by EndTheRapture51
who pays five hundred fucking dollars for a burger
#10
also there's, I think at least, some pretty serious implications of stuff like this happening in front of two young kids (the boy is 14, the girl is younger).
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#11
I get that police are supposed to use force when necessary
but like
couldn't they just not use force when not necessary?
this house is bitchin
#12
Quote by Bob_Sacamano
absolute scum. glad they recorded it though, that means that they probably (but who knows) will face some sort of sanction, hopefully pretty severe as opposed to this getting no attention otherwise and the officer's bullshit words being taken over the citizens' just because they're cops

they wont face any sanction cos their department is supporting their actions
#13
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
I've lived in America my whole life and never once had trouble with the police. Being black in america is probably not the best idea though.

I think it varies. There are bad people in every profession. A cop almost hit me and charged me with reckless driving. I won in court easily. Also a friend from my 4th grade class was shot and killed by a cop a few years back.

Cops aren't all bad but the ones here are kinda shitty.
#15
This is why cops should wear cameras.
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#16
Quote by ErikLensherr
This is why cops should wear cameras.

i totally agree with you, however that wouldn't be helpful here. the situation was filmed and the department is backing the cops anyway.
#18
The only incident I can think of of where the cop was actually charged with something is that recent one where that one US Marshall was charged after opening fire on a black guy who "reached for his license and registration menacingly" (his actual words). Other than that, most of these things I've come across on the internet show that the department usually back the policeman even when he was doing something illegal (that one police officer that used an illegal choke-hold on a black guy in NY for example).
bawitaba a bang a bang diggy diggy diggy sed the boogie sed up jump the boogie
#19
Aww. That video was really sad. Especially when the kid began crying.
"Being honest may not get you a lot of friends, but it'll always get you the right ones."
#20
They were being rather belligerent in that very short video that doesn't record what happened up until then.

Also, per the article,"In the video, one of the officers can be heard telling Jones “Just so you know, we’ve got a camera recording here, you’re on a body mike, I suggest you come out of the car.”

So they police have the entire thing recorded and don't appear to be to concerned. I'm betting there is more to the story than that family is saying and it will come out soon and the case will be dismissed.
#21
Quote by Thrashtastic15
Christ Americans are assholes.


I'm not
A bassist is never late, nor is he early, he arrives precisely when he means to.

The Pit operates under a pseudo-Murphy’s Law state of mind. You can make a comment and "whatever wrong assumption that can be made about it, will be made about it."
#23
3. Although I cannot say this definitively, I am willing to bet that had the couple been white, there would have been no issue, and the couple would have been allowed to continue to the hospital.
Probably a lower chance of this happening, but no guarantee. This is how so many cops in America are right now. I don't trust them, but I would like to someday. We need some big changes, especially in our larger cities.
#24
So far I have seen only one reasonable response to this yet... And it was by juggling freak.

A. Never leave home without ID. It's a simple rule known to anyone in the US. Many places you will be hauled directly to the clink if you cannot produce proper ID.

B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.

C. Why did he reach into the back. I would have shot to kill. He had absolutely no reason to reach in the back.

D. Chicago has the highest murder rate in the USA. Ironically enough it is one of the very few cities where owning a hand gun is illegal. Go figure... That doesn't stop criminals from owning/using them.

E. How hard is it to respect a law officer. You don't have to like them but their is no reason to blatantly disregard their authority. Sure there are corrupt cops. There are corrupt people in every aspect of life. As a young a-hole I caused a ton of trouble and had many run ins with cops. Hated them and felt they singled me out. Now that I'm a decent adult I haven't had a run in with then in over 12 years that I was treated wrongly or disrespectfully.

Moral of the story you reap what you sow. And yes some people SHOULD die. And micheal Brown was one of them. So was trayvon Martin.
Last edited by Smigzy at Oct 7, 2014,
#25
Quote by Smigzy
So far I have seen only one reasonable response to this yet... And it was by juggling freak.

A. Never leave home without ID. It's a simple rule known to anyone in the US. Many places you will be hauled directly to the clink if you cannot produce proper ID.

B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.

C. Why did he reach into the back. I would have shot to kill. He had absolutely no reason to reach in the back.

D. Chicago has the highest murder rate in the USA. Ironically enough it is one of the very few cities where owning a hand gun is illegal. Go figure... That doesn't stop criminals from owning/using them.

E. How hard is it to respect a law officer. You don't have to like them but their is no reason to blatantly disregard their authority. Sure there are corrupt cops. There are corrupt people in every aspect of life. As a young a-hole I caused a ton of trouble and had many run ins with cops. Hated them and felt they singled me out. Now that I'm a decent adult I haven't had a run in with then in over 12 years that I was treated wrongly or disrespectfully.

Moral of the story you reap what you sow. And yes some people SHOULD die. And micheal Brown was one of them. So was trayvon Martin.

this post caused remission
#26
1 is completely false. If a cop wants you to get out of your car for acting sketchy, he can. He should have said, "hey sorry I don't have it, I have a ticket I got for it in my back seat may I get it?". You're a dumbass to just reach around your car without saying why, especially reaching in the backseat instead of in the glove compartment. Where all your information should be. (yes there could be in a gun in there as well, but a cop can see when you open it, reaching out in the back seat and possibly under it not so much).


Smashing the window was unnecessary though. He could have justifiably just yanked him out and cuffed him and searched the backseat, to ya know, make sure he didn't have weapon to use against the cop.


Oh, and carry a ****ing ID on you. It should be second nature. I watch cops every night. I'm amazed at how many people go around without one. And 9 times out of 10 they either do have it and give a false name, or they don't but their license is revoked or they have warrants or something.
Last edited by Wormholes at Oct 7, 2014,
#27
Quote by Smigzy

B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.


Your entire post is ****ing awful but I'll focus here because of how stupid it is based on just watching the video without any other context. She said she didn't want to get out because the police pulled a gun on them, that police have been shooting plenty of unarmed people lately, and that she was scared. Their immediate response to that is to ****ing break the window and taze the man in the passenger seat. Way to help your reputation and keep a scared woman calm.

This is a perfect example that can easily refute the 'well police lives are in danger' argument. They put themselves in this situation. Why couldn't they just give her the ticket? There is nothing to suggest the police would be justified in even contemplating doing what they did.

****ing disgusting. I felt a genuine sense of pain for that family.

Pretty much the only thing that can be argued in the police's favour is that he should have said something before he reached back. Even then, that was already done by the time they started filming and breaking the window and tazing someone is a huge 'overreaction' (I can't even call it that because there wasn't much for them to react to).
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Oct 7, 2014,
#28
Having a prior ticket is not an excuse for not having ID. They don't take your ID when you are issued a ticket. And what would the ticket have proven anyway. He could have lied about his name earlier.

And what a poor guy. Gets multiple tickets in a matter of hours? Days? All because he's black right. I'm sure he is a perfect upstanding citizen who has never broken the law in his life
#29
Quote by Smigzy
So far I have seen only one reasonable response to this yet... And it was by juggling freak.

A. Never leave home without ID. It's a simple rule known to anyone in the US. Many places you will be hauled directly to the clink if you cannot produce proper ID.

B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.

C. Why did he reach into the back. I would have shot to kill. He had absolutely no reason to reach in the back.

D. Chicago has the highest murder rate in the USA. Ironically enough it is one of the very few cities where owning a hand gun is illegal. Go figure... That doesn't stop criminals from owning/using them.

E. How hard is it to respect a law officer. You don't have to like them but their is no reason to blatantly disregard their authority. Sure there are corrupt cops. There are corrupt people in every aspect of life. As a young a-hole I caused a ton of trouble and had many run ins with cops. Hated them and felt they singled me out. Now that I'm a decent adult I haven't had a run in with then in over 12 years that I was treated wrongly or disrespectfully.

Moral of the story you reap what you sow. And yes some people SHOULD die. And micheal Brown was one of them. So was trayvon Martin.



jesus



wept
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
#30
well sorry if we haven't all been properly trained in not getting abused by the american police force. i suppose it's our fault then? should they teach this sort of victim blaming at driver's ed?
i don't know why i feel so dry
#31
Quote by Smigzy

B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.
/QUOTE]

Your entire post is ****ing awful but I'll focus here because of how stupid it is based on just watching the video without any other context. She said she didn't want to get out because the police pulled a gun on them, that police have been shooting plenty of unarmed people lately, and that she was scared. Their immediate response to that is to ****ing break the window and taze the man in the passenger seat. Way to help your reputation and keep a scared woman calm.

This is a perfect example that can easily refute the 'well police lives are in danger' argument. They put themselves in this situation. Why couldn't they just give her the ticket? There is nothing to suggest the police would be justified in even contemplating doing what they did.

****ing disgusting. I felt a genuine sense of pain for that family.


I feel bad for the kids. Zero sympathy for the man or woman.

When a cop says get out of the car it doesn't mean... Get out of the car if you would like to. It means we asked something of you. You refused to comply. Now get the f out of the car a hole.

He brought this on himself and yes it is a shame the kids had to see it. They are horrible parents
#32
Quote by Smigzy
So far I have seen only one reasonable response to this yet... And it was by juggling freak.

holy bloody hell this whole thing is a mess but I'll try to approach it the best I can


A. Never leave home without ID. It's a simple rule known to anyone in the US. Many places you will be hauled directly to the clink if you cannot produce proper ID.

This is true. I don't see why it matters though.


B. If he wasn't doing anything wrong why wouldn't he get out of the car. 99 out of 100 times someone doesn't comply with a police officer is because they are breaking the law.

First of all, do you have proof of that statistic?

Second of all, they didn't get out of the car because: a) there was no legal obligation to, and b) the officers had already both pulled their guns out (for no reason, which I'll get to later), so Jamal Jones rightfully felt in fear of his safety


C. Why did he reach into the back. I would have shot to kill. He had absolutely no reason to reach in the back.

first of all, please tell me you are not a member of any law authority, and you do not carry a firearm. Bloody hell.

At what point are you talking about? The only time he reached into the back was to get the ticket, which was the only form of ID that he had. In other words, he was getting something that the cops had asked for


D. Chicago has the highest murder rate in the USA. Ironically enough it is one of the very few cities where owning a hand gun is illegal. Go figure... That doesn't stop criminals from owning/using them.

WOW COOL FACT

why do we care?


E. How hard is it to respect a law officer. You don't have to like them but their is no reason to blatantly disregard their authority. Sure there are corrupt cops. There are corrupt people in every aspect of life. As a young a-hole I caused a ton of trouble and had many run ins with cops. Hated them and felt they singled me out. Now that I'm a decent adult I haven't had a run in with then in over 12 years that I was treated wrongly or disrespectfully.

I don't really know how to approach this.

it is hard to respect a law officer when they pull a gun on you for no reason. It is hard to respect them when they have literally zero cause to be asking you to get out of your vehicle. It is hard to respect them when, almost daily, stories like this pop up. Respect the badge to the point, until you know the person is scum. The officers here did not act in a way where I would respect them. They acted in a way where I would distrust them.


Moral of the story you reap what you sow. And yes some people SHOULD die. And micheal Brown was one of them. So was trayvon Martin.

not even going to respond to this because it's literally the dumbest thing in this thread.


Now to reference what I said earlier, about the cops pulling guns for no reason. I read into the lawsuit, and found this:
33. In full view of the officers, Jamal retrieved the ticket from his backpack
and offered the ticket to the officers.**
34. The officers declined to take the ticket.
35. After a minute or two for no reason, the officers drew their weapons.

So it wasn't when he reached back to get the ticket that they drew weapons, it was after a minute or two, for no reason.

Also this:
36. The officers had no reasonable basis to believe that anyone in the vehicle
was a threat. The vehicles’ windows were clear and the officers had an unobstructed
view of every person within the vehicle.



And finally, this about the two officers:
52. Defendants Vicari and Turner have a history of using objectively
unreasonable force against citizens and arresting citizens without probable cause.

Vicari has been in three lawsuits, Turner in one.
57. Despite this history, the City of Hammond has not disciplined Vicari or
Turner or other officers and has instead promoted them to leadership positions within
the police department.
58. Moreover, despite this history of unlawful conduct by City police officers,
the City has failed to adequately investigate allegations of officer misconduct, has failed
to adequately discipline officers for the use of excessive force, and has failed to
adequately train its officers on the proper use of force.


How on earth is that police department supposed to be trusted by the people?


I'm not saying that the couple are completely guiltless. There are things that they should've done differently. yes, if he had just gotten out of the car, this wouldn't have happened. In no way does that justify what did happen though.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#33
well at least this thread got interesting
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#34
Outside 'guilt' is completely irrelevant to the specific situation. I don't how anyone with any empathy can immediately result to baseless accusations towards the victims every time something like this happens. Especially when we've all done bad shit at some point.

And oh look, he didn't 'reach back' in a threatening way, so the cops don't even have that going on.

Quote by slipknot5678


I feel bad for the kids. Zero sympathy for the man or woman.

When a cop says get out of the car it doesn't mean... Get out of the car if you would like to. It means we asked something of you. You refused to comply. Now get the f out of the car a hole.

He brought this on himself and yes it is a shame the kids had to see it. They are horrible parents


They are so terrible for caring about their family's safety. Considering the situation they were pretty calm the whole time. Her mom was about to ****ing die and they had to deal with this. I can understand why they would feel unsafe getting out. I can understand that with the circumstances, they responded the way they did. Even if you want to take the 'well it's the law' angle, the police were needlessly suspicious towards them (they were open about everything and not acting aggressive) and maybe instead of depicting all victims of police brutality as these criminals who disobey basic orders we should reconsider what line it is acceptable for the police to walk across. Nobody should have to put up with this shit.
Last edited by slipknot5678 at Oct 7, 2014,
#35
Quote by Baby Joel
holy bloody hell this whole thing is a mess but I'll try to approach it the best I can


This is true. I don't see why it matters though.


First of all, do you have proof of that statistic?

Second of all, they didn't get out of the car because: a) there was no legal obligation to, and b) the officers had already both pulled their guns out (for no reason, which I'll get to later), so Jamal Jones rightfully felt in fear of his safety


first of all, please tell me you are not a member of any law authority, and you do not carry a firearm. Bloody hell.

At what point are you talking about? The only time he reached into the back was to get the ticket, which was the only form of ID that he had. In other words, he was getting something that the cops had asked for


WOW COOL FACT

why do we care?


I don't really know how to approach this.

it is hard to respect a law officer when they pull a gun on you for no reason. It is hard to respect them when they have literally zero cause to be asking you to get out of your vehicle. It is hard to respect them when, almost daily, stories like this pop up. Respect the badge to the point, until you know the person is scum. The officers here did not act in a way where I would respect them. They acted in a way where I would distrust them.


not even going to respond to this because it's literally the dumbest thing in this thread.


Now to reference what I said earlier, about the cops pulling guns for no reason. I read into the lawsuit, and found this:

So it wasn't when he reached back to get the ticket that they drew weapons, it was after a minute or two, for no reason.

Also this:


And finally, this about the two officers:

Vicari has been in three lawsuits, Turner in one.


How on earth is that police department supposed to be trusted by the people?


I'm not saying that the couple are completely guiltless. There are things that they should've done differently. yes, if he had just gotten out of the car, this wouldn't have happened. In no way does that justify what did happen though.


You contridicted yourself in so many ways... Here I'd where I will start

A. You acknowledge it's common practice. But why does it matter? It does not matter you're age, sex, color ,religion or why you are pulled over. they ask for I'd to run a check for warrants. You have a warrant you go to jail. You don't they let you go with a ticket, sometimes a warning. With out ID how can you prove you are Joe blow the greatest citizen in the US or John doe the cities most notorious drug dealer /gang banger/ murderer?

B. No I don't have stats to prove its true. Do you have stats to prove its not? Why else would you fail to comply with something so simple?

C. when an officer of law gives you a command you ARE indeed obligated to comply. So here is where you really fail. You claim he wouldn't get out because he was scared they had their guns pulled. A few sentences down you say they pulled their guns a few mins after he reached in the back because he would not comply. So which is it? Can't have it both ways.


D. Wow. That is a cool fact. Why do we care? Where did this all take place ?

E. No I'm NOT a cop and would never want to be. Yes I have a concealed weapons permit. And guess how many times I have shot someone or even pulled a gun on someone in over 5 years???

F. You acknowledge they are not guiltless. So why are you portraying then as innocent victims?
Last edited by Smigzy at Oct 7, 2014,
#36
Quote by Smigzy

B. No I don't have stats to prove its true. Do you have stats to prove its not? Why else would you fail to comply with something so simple?


****ing hell. Not only is this really bad logic, but there's this thing called presumption of innocence.

This applies to basically your whole post.

I'm getting a sense of entitlement from you. I doubt most people who say shit like this would really know how to react if they were threatened by the police like this.

Forget your ID=deserve to get tazed apparently.
#37
You really aren't legally required to exit a vehicle simply because an officer tells you to. If an officer pulled a gun on me and kept asking me to get out of the vehicle, I would not comply until they had a legitimate reason. That is my right as a citizen.
Quote by Fat Lard
Why would you spend tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a language you already speak? It was over before it even started dude

Quote by captainsnazz
brot pls
#38
Ok, he's banned now guys - ignore Smigzy's post, he's clearly a prat with heavily-restricted mental capacity, or just trolling to derail the thread.
Hey, look. Sigs are back.
#39
why is he banned tho
Quote by korinaflyingv
On the come up we were listening to Grateful Dead and the music started passing through my bowel and out my arsehole as this violet stream of light. I shat music. It was beautiful.
#40
Booooo.

w/e happened to freedom of speech?
Quote by jakesmellspoo
ooh look at me i'm ERIKLENSHERR and i work at fancy pants desk jobs and wear ties and ply barely legal girls with weed and booze i'm such a classy motherfucker.
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