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#1
Seeing as you can just put really good OD and distortion pedals in front of a clean channel, why bother getting that Dual Rectifier?
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#2
Because even the best drive pedal has nothing on the roar of Dual Rec. Why do guitarists do anything? The toanz bruh.
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#3
Because distortion pedals suck


...ok... some of them are pretty good...
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#4
This question is somewhat equivalent to "what's the point in riding a bike when I can just run?"

Using a distortion pedal in front of a clean amp is not the same as distorting the amp. It won't sound the same, it won't respond the same. Both can work fine, it depends on what works for you.
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#5
Quote by dementiacaptain
Why do guitarists do anything? The toanz bruh.
This is the most accurate way I've ever seen this been put.
Like, for serious.
Sig material.

As for that question in particular, check out some papers about gain structure in amplifiers.
In short, with that setup you described you would overdrive stuff much differently than how you would with the red channel on a dual recto, and hence sound much different.

EDIT: wait you may have meant why they don't use distortion pedals to simulate the sound of a recto's red channel, and then run them through clean amps.
If that's the case, the answer's simply that they sound different, arguably (bot not even that much) worse.

That said, I myself still can't figure out why people buy recto's in particular.
Apart from the treadplate and the mesa logo and the happiness of owning a recto.
Name's Luca.

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Last edited by Spambot_2 at Oct 8, 2014,
#6
The recto is popular in part because not lot a lot of other amps out there have the switchable tube/SS rectifier, which gives you a really wide range of bass response. You can't create a pedal that subverts the amp's own power supply.

To tie that in to the original question, high gain amps tend to have a power supply that's meant to work better with high gain. You can put as many gain pedals as you want in front of a Twin, it's not going to have the bass response of an Engl or a Bogner or whatever.

There's far more to heavy distorted tones than just stacking gain stages before the preamp.
#7
Quote by Spambot_2
That said, I myself still can't figure out why people buy recto's in particular.
Apart from the treadplate and the mesa logo and the happiness of owning a recto.

And I can't figure out why people buy Diezel VH4s, prefer the SLO over the Avenger or Hot Rod or how anyone can even stand to listen to the Engl Fireball, but to each their own
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I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
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maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





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#8
listen to them both side by side and you'll find your answer....amp dirt vs pedal dirt is no contest
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#9
Quote by Spambot_2
As for that question in particular, check out some papers about gain structure in amplifiers.
In short, with that setup you described you would overdrive stuff much differently than how you would with the red channel on a dual recto, and hence sound much different.

+1

I was going to post something about gain structures but decided against it due to my insufficient technical knowledge on that particular subject.

I think even if you duplicated the red channel on a dual recto in a pedal format, and put it through the clean channel of a dual recto, it would not sound the same as the red channel, because the distortion would be in a different part of the signal chain.
Rig Winter 2017:

Fender Jazzmaster/Yamaha SG1000
Boss TU-3, DS-2, CS-3, EHX small stone, Danelectro delay
Laney VC30-112 with G12H30 speaker, or Session Rockette 30 for smaller gigs
Elixir Nanoweb 11-49 strings, Dunlop Jazz III XL picks
Shure SM57 mic in front of the amp
#10
The only pedal I'd ever trust to completely replace a high gain channel is the Boss Power Stack. Still not as good though.....not close.
#11
Play a SLO and you'll have your answer
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#12
There is no point. Likewise, there is no point to anything. "What is the point of life????". Man we are here to enjoy it. sometimes I ask myself a similar question. The only response I can come up with is that it's all about enjoying yourself. I play guitar because I enjoy playing guitar. No other reason. The point of a high gain amp is the same point of playing at all. sounds good? Is good!
#13
Quote by MatrixClaw
And I can't figure out why people buy Diezel VH4s, prefer the SLO over the Avenger or Hot Rod or how anyone can even stand to listen to the Engl Fireball, but to each their own

+1

Also, the OP has been around here awhile. My money is that this is a troll thread
#14
Quote by MatrixClaw
And I can't figure out why people buy Diezel VH4s, prefer the SLO over the Avenger or Hot Rod or how anyone can even stand to listen to the Engl Fireball, but to each their own

I have an Engl Fireball 100, dick!

I owned an Avenger for a long time as well. It was awesome, but never felt as awesome as the first time I tried an SLO 100. Maybe it's because it was with a Soldano 4x12 too?
#15
Quote by Blompcube
This question is somewhat equivalent to "what's the point in riding a bike when I can just run?"

Using a distortion pedal in front of a clean amp is not the same as distorting the amp. It won't sound the same, it won't respond the same. Both can work fine, it depends on what works for you.


Good points.

I own the two arguably most hated and also most popular distortion pedals on the market, the Boss DS-1 and MT-2 Metal Zone. They don't even come close to resemble anything like any amplifier distortion I have personally experienced, in either the tone or the feel (response) in my playing.

So why do I keep them? Do I even use them? Yes, more often than amp distortion. I like the particular tone. It is interesting to do something musical with. I mean, I really like the tone of both of them, but I can also perfectly see why someone would hate the same with their own playing.

I have used the DS-1 for all live and rehearsal playing in the last 9 months, and it sounds really good for what I do - which others also seem to think. The Metal Zone is my guilty pleasure at home. Works fine, but it is totally different from amp-distortion.

Stop being stuck with "what is the right way" and use what you like and what you think works, is my advice on the matter.
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#16
Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
+1

Also, the OP has been around here awhile. My money is that this is a troll thread



Kind of what I was thinking
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#17
you can only bring 87% of teh brootz with pedlulz
I'm an idiot and I accidentally clicked the "Remove all subscriptions" button. If it seems like I'm ignoring you, I'm not, I'm just no longer subscribed to the thread. If you quote me or do the @user thing at me, hopefully it'll notify me through my notifications and I'll get back to you.
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#18
why use a pedal if your amp can do it without help. oh no pedal dies then what you're screwed. I have a high gain amp and use an overdrive. hey what do you know more tonal options. geez what next why have an amp with more than one channel.....
#21
Quote by bdof
I have an Engl Fireball 100, dick!

I owned an Avenger for a long time as well. It was awesome, but never felt as awesome as the first time I tried an SLO 100. Maybe it's because it was with a Soldano 4x12 too?

Whoops, I meant the Powerball, but considering the Fireball is based off of it........





I dunno, I've owned the SLO, the Hot Rod 50+, the Avenger and the Hot Rod Avenger, and I liked the cheaper Soldanos far better than the SLO. Cool amp, but super overhyped IMO
Quote by Dave_Mc
I've had tube amps for a while now, but never actually had any go down on me
Quote by jj1565
maybe you're not saying the right things? an amp likes to know you care.





www.SanctityStudios.com
#22
Quote by wildozer
There is no point. Likewise, there is no point to anything. "What is the point of life????"
Woah. That is deep.

People tend to slag off the Matrix Reloaded but when the Merovingian asks Trin, Neo and Morpheus "Why are you here?", it's also on the other level about their existence. Watch it again if you get the chance. But I digress.

I meant that pedals, and pods etc, could render buying a big Mesa redundant if they were good enough which I wasn't sure.

Quote by 311ZOSOVHJH
+1

Also, the OP has been around here awhile. My money is that this is a troll thread

You overestimate me
ZEN JUDDHISM
The new solo project, and spiritual philosophy... Album out now !
----------------------------------------------------------
hybrid 6.0
Debut album 'Silent Destruction' out now
Read the Two Guys Metal review here
#23
i cant even believe i just read a thread that contains:

SLO
DH4
powerball
dual rec
etc

and
boss power stack, moss metal zone, and sd-1


...in the same thread. is there a demerit in here? infraction? strong warning? thats crossing some code in my book. in no way should an SLO or a diezel be compared to a boss power stack.
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#24
I've always played clean amps with pedals for dirt. I've owned half a dozen or so amp amps and over a dozen dirt pedals... None have fully compared to a real gain channel. Close enough for my purposes, but not the same.
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#25
Quote by MatrixClaw

I dunno, I've owned the SLO, the Hot Rod 50+, the Avenger and the Hot Rod Avenger, and I liked the cheaper Soldanos far better than the SLO. Cool amp, but super overhyped IMO


Sounds just like people who drink $3 bottles of wine & think it tastes as good as vintage Napa cabernet

The SLO is definitely hyped a lot, but it really does deliver, & it has a TRANSFERABLE LIFETIME WARRANTY! People forget that part. That's huge. Everything but tubes is covered AFAIK.

And true...no clean amp with a pedal can do the SLO roar when it's cranked up, not even Soldano's own pedal

Edit: Clean amps with pedals can still be pretty awesome for lots of mild-mid gain/blues tones. There's a place for just about anything if you can play well.
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#26
I got my head stuck in the cupboard and my brain hurts.
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#27
Um... Is this a serious question? Why put OD pedals in front of a clean amp when you can just play your electric guitar unplugged? That's basically the same question.

If you think OD pedals ran through a clean amp is a suitable substitute for a high-gain amp, you either haven't actually compared the tones, or you don't have a very critical ear.
#29
^ a pedal will not necessarily sound that bad.
Most pedals will actually not sound that bad.
Quote by MatrixClaw
Whoops, I meant the Powerball, but considering the Fireball is based off of it........
The Powerball II is my favorite high gain amp, you dense mofo
Quote by riffhog
Sounds just like people who drink $3 bottles of wine & think it tastes as good as vintage Napa cabernet
Oww come on, to each his own

Also you just described the noobest noob ever - the best $3 wine (actually €0.99 here in italy) comes in cartons, not bottles
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#30
Quote by MatrixClaw
or how anyone can even stand to listen to the Engl Fireball, but to each their own


I hope you die a tragic death in the near future. I don't care whatsoever if you were being facetious, sarcastic, glib, or just making a point. F you, you are literally the worst person in existence. Also, your mother's sexual standards are exceedingly low, even when compared to that of a man. You have no right to walk on the ground beneath your feet, you incompetent imbecile. Hell awaits you, get there quickly.
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#31
Quote by tas38
your mother's sexual standards are exceedingly low, even when compared to that of a man.


Pretty edgy.
Also very funny tho.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#32
I kind of get where MC is coming from though, Engls don't do it for me, particularly the ---balls. They just don't have any "life" to them (whatever that means, right?) They almost remind me of some of the non-RM Randall's I've played. Great for metal, sure, but no soul. But what do I know, I like boosted hot-rod Marshalls for my sound
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#33
Quote by tas38
I hope you die a tragic death in the near future. I don't care whatsoever if you were being facetious, sarcastic, glib, or just making a point. F you, you are literally the worst person in existence. Also, your mother's sexual standards are exceedingly low, even when compared to that of a man. You have no right to walk on the ground beneath your feet, you incompetent imbecile. Hell awaits you, get there quickly.

Hell hath no fury like a michael westen scorned
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#34
On most Marshall and other amps, the overdrive is a power saturation of the valves aligned after the clean channel and more power saturation stages as you switch channels. Marshall amplifiers were originally used to have projection power (Jim Marshall was a drummer with a knack for electronics). The idea of "melting people's face off" was Jim Marshall capitalizing on the populations feedback to this sound he never originally planned to pursue. Yes, using the clean channel you can run any stomp box from the front, use the effects loop for compressors, EQ, and other signal manipulating units. Know what you have and then maybe ya'll can have a discussion based of facts instead of a bunch of monkeys throwing feces at each other..
#35
Quote by HomerSGR
Good points.

I own the two arguably most hated and also most popular distortion pedals on the market, the Boss DS-1 and MT-2 Metal Zone. They don't even come close to resemble anything like any amplifier distortion I have personally experienced, in either the tone or the feel (response) in my playing.

So why do I keep them? Do I even use them? Yes, more often than amp distortion. I like the particular tone. It is interesting to do something musical with. I mean, I really like the tone of both of them, but I can also perfectly see why someone would hate the same with their own playing.

I have used the DS-1 for all live and rehearsal playing in the last 9 months, and it sounds really good for what I do - which others also seem to think. The Metal Zone is my guilty pleasure at home. Works fine, but it is totally different from amp-distortion.

Stop being stuck with "what is the right way" and use what you like and what you think works, is my advice on the matter.

I wouldn't really judge all distortion pedals based on my experiences of Boss pedals. I mean, there are distortion pedals that sound way better than Boss pedals.

But to answer the original question, different sounds. Some people like pedals, some like amp's own distortion. Also, a good distortion pedal through a bad amp isn't going to sound great. Not all clean channels sound great. If the amp already has a distortion tone you like, why bother with distortion pedals (unless you want lots of variety of course)?

Also, there are pretty expensive distortion pedals. Buying an amp with a good clean channel and a "boutique" OD or distortion pedal isn't going to cost less than buying an amp with a good distortion channel. And if distorted tones are what you are after, why not buy an amp with a good distortion sound in it? If the amp can already do what you want to do, there's no need for distortion pedals. I think the question would make more sense the other way around - what's the point of distortion pedals if an amp can do the same? And even then it wouldn't make that much sense. The answer would be the same - different sounds.
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#36
Quote by GtrAnimal84
On most Marshall and other amps, the overdrive is a power saturation of the valves aligned after the clean channel and more power saturation stages as you switch channels. Marshall amplifiers were originally used to have projection power (Jim Marshall was a drummer with a knack for electronics). The idea of "melting people's face off" was Jim Marshall capitalizing on the populations feedback to this sound he never originally planned to pursue. Yes, using the clean channel you can run any stomp box from the front, use the effects loop for compressors, EQ, and other signal manipulating units. Know what you have and then maybe ya'll can have a discussion based of facts instead of a bunch of monkeys throwing feces at each other..



You think that this is feces slinging? This is down right civil for us
I'm just a kickin' and a gougin' in the mud and the blood and the beer.
#37
Church dude
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#38
Quote by The Judist

I meant that pedals, and pods etc, could render buying a big Mesa redundant if they were good enough which I wasn't sure


Silly thread.

I own a Carvin Quad X, a Mesa Triaxis, a stack of Pods (with a Torpedo C.A.B.), an Axe-FX Ultra -- all preamps of one kind or another -- plus about 15 tube amps of various descriptions and 2 1/2 bins of pedalry.

The Quad-X has four channels, nine 12 AX7s, six FX channels, noise gates, built-in boost, bass cloaking (HPF, essentially) and up to eleven tube gain stages (channel dependent). The Mesa is....eh...go google it. If I need to melt faces, I can run any (or all) of these things through a 1500W power amp (about $269, 9 pounds) into a pair of fEARful 15/6/1 cabinets (under 50 lbs each). Seriously, why would some 14-year old bedroom weenie insist that I need a tube amp these days, other than that he heard on some internet forum that it was the best for da brootz?
#39
On the subject of a dual rectifier, I'm designing a double-ended buttplug to be marketed under the name "dual rectumfrier".
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#40
Quote by GtrAnimal84
On most Marshall and other amps, the overdrive is a power saturation of the valves aligned after the clean channel and more power saturation stages as you switch channels.
If it was only that then why do people argue some amps sound better than others?

There's a looot more to an amp's distortion channel than the distortion itself, some of which pedal hardly reproduce.
Tone stack, power supply, choke...
Quote by slapsymcdougal
On the subject of a dual rectifier, I'm designing a double-ended buttplug to be marketed under the name "dual rectumfrier".
That's some A+ product design m8, 11/10 would buy at least two.
Quote by dspellman
Seriously, why would some 14-year old bedroom weenie insist that I need a tube amp these days, other than that he heard on some internet forum that it was the best for da brootz?
Please, all of the 14 y/o beedroom weenies today know that you need an AXE-FX if you really want teh brootz.

Also I've never heard any digital simulation sounding as good as an aa864 bassman.
Nor a lonestar, nor whatever good sounding clean tube amp.

I can agree with you though if a used AXE wasn't more expensive than new Powerball II I would send tubes **** themselves for when teh brootz is concerned.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
Last edited by Spambot_2 at Oct 9, 2014,
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