#1
Hi all, I'm wondering if I should get an ESP LTD Jeff Hanneman model or some Dean with a Floyd Rose. Can you help out?
#2
It's honestly personal preference. Kerry King put it best, saying something along the lines of this:

"I like the Kahler because I grew up with it and learned on it. Gary [Holt] likes the Floyd because he learned on that."

Personally I don't like signature models, but Dean get get pretty hit or miss with quality. Your cal.
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#3
Quote by TheStig1214
It's honestly personal preference. Kerry King put it best, saying something along the lines of this:

"I like the Kahler because I grew up with it and learned on it. Gary [Holt] likes the Floyd because he learned on that."

Personally I don't like signature models, but Dean get get pretty hit or miss with quality. Your cal.

I'm learning currently on a Fender styled trem and I can go for either really. Anyway, how is that ESP, do you know?
#4
I don't know personally, I'm an Ibanez guy and a fixed bridge guy. Honestly the only thing I have against the Henneman sig is the gaudy graphics

Closest to the strat trem in function and feel is the Floyd.
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Amps and the like:
Laney VH100R
Seismic Luke 2x12
Dunlop 105Q Wah
Gojira FX 808
Line 6 M9
#5
Quote by TheStig1214
I don't know personally, I'm an Ibanez guy and a fixed bridge guy. Honestly the only thing I have against the Henneman sig is the gaudy graphics

Closest to the strat trem in function and feel is the Floyd.

That's why I like it, it looks fabulous.
#6
I love my Floyd. Kahlers are good though. It's just up to you to decide which feel you like. Going in blind, I doubt you'd be disappointed with either.
#7
Yeah they're both great. Go try them and see which one feels better.
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#9
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Either/or. Which feels better to you?

I haven't tried either, that's why I came here to ask you. I certainly want to Dime squeals or whatever they're called, and Slayerish trem use. It's just the fact that K.K and Jeff use Kahlers, and Dime used Floyds.
#10
Quote by It's_Loveless
It's just the fact that K.K and Jeff use Kahlers, and Dime used Floyds.


Means nothing.

I've got both on guitars, and while I've been using Floyds a lot recently, there are definitely advantages to Kahlers. One, you can take the trem bar off and use it largely as a hard tail. In fact, the newest Kahlers are convertible, which means that you can lock them down or, in a few seconds, unlock them and use them as a trem. Here's the place to go for information: www.wammiworld.com

Another advantage of a Kahler is that when you do a bend, the other strings retain tension. On a Floyd with a light set of springs, a deep bend will raise the back of the Floyd. This means that 1. You have to push the string farther to get the same pitch and 2. the other strings have gone flat while you're bending one. If you're playing leads where you bend a note and, while holding the bend, play another non-bent note, that note will be flat. It's just the nature of the beast. To avoid that with a Floyd, you need to load on springs, which means that it won't be as responsive. With a Kahler, bending a string won't (usually) pull the other strings flat. Leastways, not as easily.

A Kahler won't require the big spring cavity to be routed out of the back of the guitar. In fact, a Kahler rout is a front-of-the-guitar-only thing, and only to a depth of perhaps 3/4" or so. No back routing at all.

The newer Kahlers allow you to pick the saddle material, too. That can make a difference in sound.

OTOH, a good Floyd will allow you to "flutter" very easily, and you can swap in a heavier brass sustain block (it's been my preference, anyway), and that will affect the sound noticeably.

Most Kahlers come with *behind* the nut string locks (though you can also use a locking nut ala the Floyd setup), while most Floyd installations use locking nuts. Honestly, there's no real advantage to either.
#11
Quote by dspellman
Means nothing.

I've got both on guitars, and while I've been using Floyds a lot recently, there are definitely advantages to Kahlers. One, you can take the trem bar off and use it largely as a hard tail. In fact, the newest Kahlers are convertible, which means that you can lock them down or, in a few seconds, unlock them and use them as a trem. Here's the place to go for information: www.wammiworld.com

Another advantage of a Kahler is that when you do a bend, the other strings retain tension. On a Floyd with a light set of springs, a deep bend will raise the back of the Floyd. This means that 1. You have to push the string farther to get the same pitch and 2. the other strings have gone flat while you're bending one. If you're playing leads where you bend a note and, while holding the bend, play another non-bent note, that note will be flat. It's just the nature of the beast. To avoid that with a Floyd, you need to load on springs, which means that it won't be as responsive. With a Kahler, bending a string won't (usually) pull the other strings flat. Leastways, not as easily.

A Kahler won't require the big spring cavity to be routed out of the back of the guitar. In fact, a Kahler rout is a front-of-the-guitar-only thing, and only to a depth of perhaps 3/4" or so. No back routing at all.

The newer Kahlers allow you to pick the saddle material, too. That can make a difference in sound.

OTOH, a good Floyd will allow you to "flutter" very easily, and you can swap in a heavier brass sustain block (it's been my preference, anyway), and that will affect the sound noticeably.

Most Kahlers come with *behind* the nut string locks (though you can also use a locking nut ala the Floyd setup), while most Floyd installations use locking nuts. Honestly, there's no real advantage to either.

So from what I read, the Kahler has more advantages? Also, what would you get, a Dean ML79 or an LTD Jeff Hanneman sig?
#12
A disadvantage with Kahlers is that a string does tend to go out of tune after it is bent. Diving the bar after bending the string does return the string to the correct pitch again though.
Quote by It's_Loveless
So from what I read, the Kahler has more advantages? Also, what would you get, a Dean ML79 or an LTD Jeff Hanneman sig?

Stop asking entirely subjective questions like this. They're pointless to ask. Guitars are not like computers where what you see is what you get. How everyone experiences the same guitar is always going to be slightly different because people aren't the same, and two guitars that are the same model, aren't going to be the same either. THe only way you're going to know which is better for your needs is if you play them yourself. Don't take anybody else's word for it but your own.

I personally wouldn't get either of the models you're interested in buying. Sig models are often overpriced, (usually) come with features that can be acquired with standard models with some simple modifications and they're often styled in a way that is too singular in focus to the artist. In other words, they make you look like a fanboy on stage. Which isn't a very professional look.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 10, 2014,
#13
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
A disadvantage with Kahlers is that a string does tend to go out of tune after it is bent. Diving the bar after bending the string does return the string to the correct pitch again though.

Stop asking entirely subjective questions like this. They're pointless to ask. Guitars are not like computers where what you see is what you get. How everyone experiences the same guitar is always going to be slightly different because people aren't the same, and two guitars that are the same model, aren't going to be the same either. THe only way you're going to know which is better for your needs is if you play them yourself. Don't take anybody else's word for it but your own.

I personally wouldn't get either of the models you're interested in buying. Sig models are often overpriced, (usually) come with features that can be acquired with standard models with some simple modifications and they're often styled in a way that is too singular in focus to the artist. In other words, they make you look like a fanboy on stage. Which isn't a very professional look.

The Dean isn't a sig model tho.
#14
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
A disadvantage with Kahlers is that a string does tend to go out of tune after it is bent. Diving the bar after bending the string does return the string to the correct pitch again though.


I've got four or five Kahlers, a few of them dating to 1989. Haven't experienced that yet.
Mine have the string locks *directly* behind the nut. On the one where you experienced this issue, was there a string lock and was it positioned further behind the nut?
#15
Quote by It's_Loveless
So from what I read, the Kahler has more advantages? Also, what would you get, a Dean ML79 or an LTD Jeff Hanneman sig?


The Kahler is simply different -- once you learn the pluses and minuses of either, you learn to work with them.

I'd get neither the Dean nor the LTD, honestly.

FWIW, the guitars that I have Floyds and Kahlers on are mostly Gibson, Agile, Carvin, Variax and one sole solitary 1992 Samick (which has a cheap Floyd that's still going strong).
#16
Quote by dspellman
The Kahler is simply different -- once you learn the pluses and minuses of either, you learn to work with them.

I'd get neither the Dean nor the LTD, honestly.

FWIW, the guitars that I have Floyds and Kahlers on are mostly Gibson, Agile, Carvin, Variax and one sole solitary 1992 Samick (which has a cheap Floyd that's still going strong).

What would you get that isn't Gibson and has a floating trem?
#17
LTD make some decent guitars and lots have a floating FR. But I stay away from sig guitars most of the time. You pay a premium for the name on the guitar.

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#18
Quote by dspellman
I've got four or five Kahlers, a few of them dating to 1989. Haven't experienced that yet.
Mine have the string locks *directly* behind the nut. On the one where you experienced this issue, was there a string lock and was it positioned further behind the nut?

No. One ones I've tried have a string nut that is the locking nut itself. I think it has something to do with the friction the strings have against the cam. I'm honestly not entirely sure.
Quote by It's_Loveless
The Dean isn't a sig model tho.

The rest of the guitars you have suggested are though. I'm not a huge fan of any of the guitars you're suggesting to buy.
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Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 10, 2014,
#19
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
No. One ones I've tried have a string nut that is the locking nut itself. I think it has something to do with the friction the strings have against the cam. I'm honestly not entirely sure.

The rest of the guitars you have suggested are though. I'm not a huge fan of any of the guitars you're suggesting to buy.

The only other guitar I suggested is that LTD.
#20
But there are several LTD Jeff Hanneman guitars. You're being a bit facetious now.
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#21
Quote by It's_Loveless
What would you get that isn't Gibson and has a floating trem?


As mentioned, I have Variax, Agile, Carvin, Samick, Moonstone and a few other non-Gibsons that have floating (mostly Floyd Rose) and Kahler trems. A few are odds and ends, and there are a couple of home-builts in the mix. Just a few:





This ^^^ is a homebuilt from an eBay Warmoth Jackson neck and a homebuilt body. Note the headstock decal.









Hanneman apparently preferred EMG pickups, but I have everything from Blackouts to Bartolinis to Alembics to Carvins to Duncans to DiMarzios to hot-rodded Gibson '57s and Dirty Fingers, Tom Andersons, Cephius,
#22
OP, Schecter makes tons of models with Floyds, for very good prices, assuming you're going new.
#23
Quote by the_bi99man
OP, Schecter makes tons of models with Floyds, for very good prices, assuming you're going new.

What are some good Schecters? I looked at the Blackjack series but that's it honestly.
#24
I don't like Kahlers personally. The Floyd Rose design generally speaking works better than the Kahler design. Fewer friction points on the Floyd = better tuning stability. Plus, they're much easier to work with. Kahlers are a pain.
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#25
Quote by oneblackened
I don't like Kahlers personally. The Floyd Rose design generally speaking works better than the Kahler design. Fewer friction points on the Floyd = better tuning stability. Plus, they're much easier to work with. Kahlers are a pain.

I kinda heard the other, that Floyds(tuning and setting up) are a pain in the ass and kahlers are easier to work with.