#1
Hello My name is Parker Coleman and I am a high school student taking my senior year capstone course in Engineering, I have been a guitarist since I was 8 and while I love the whammy bar I feel like it causes problems with tuning and believe there are other ways it can be innovated. So for my senior year project I am designing an electric whammy bar that can be attached and removed from any guitar very easily, it will be transportable from guitar to guitar and should be relatively small. But in order to go forward with this project I need survey results that prove there is a problem in need of solving. So if you want to help me out and possibly help in the innovation of a new take on the whammy bar please fill out this survey! I swear it's not spam! https://www.esurveycreator.com/s/56fd1ef
Last edited by Parker Coleman at Oct 10, 2014,
#3
I'm unconvinced you'll reinvent the wheel here, but I took your survey anyway...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#4
I've actually thought about something like this a few times, and I'm totally for it. Like, a whammy pedal as an actual whammy bar on your guitar. I'm much better at doing whammy stuff with a bar than a pedal. It's just so much nicer.

As for tuning problems, my current guitar has a whammy bar that I ache to use but never do because I need to replace the nut otherwise it'll go out of tune. I haven't gotten around to that yet, but it's annoying. If a guitar is going to come with a whammy bar it should be usable in the first place without needing to replace stuff to keep it in tune.

Totally for this idea.

Also if I could suggest something, you should totally make this MIDI compatible too.
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Line 6 JTV 69s
Squier Classic Bibe Telecaster Thinline
Last edited by Clay-man at Oct 10, 2014,
#5
If I were redesigning the whammy, I'd use something like the Variax (individual piezo saddles) and simply apply pitch shifting at the behest of the positioning of a whammy bar. The pitch shifting already exists in the Variax firmware and has great range in both up and down directions. All that would be required would be an actuator. String tension wouldn't actually change, the whammy could be computer-tweaked to activate only certain strings (think about THAT for a second, steel-string and slide player wannabes) and you wouldn't change the pitch of bent strings, as you do now with something like a Floyd.
#6
Quote by Clay-man
I've actually thought about something like this a few times, and I'm totally for it. Like, a whammy pedal as an actual whammy bar on your guitar. I'm much better at doing whammy stuff with a bar than a pedal. It's just so much nicer.

As for tuning problems, my current guitar has a whammy bar that I ache to use but never do because I need to replace the nut otherwise it'll go out of tune. I haven't gotten around to that yet, but it's annoying. If a guitar is going to come with a whammy bar it should be usable in the first place without needing to replace stuff to keep it in tune.

Totally for this idea.

Also if I could suggest something, you should totally make this MIDI compatible too.


Totally!
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#7
I took the survey, but I don't see it going far.

If you want an electronic control you need a motor, and even a small electric motor will not be that small and easy to put on a guitar.
Also hella unpractical imo.

Also I don't really see how an electrical one would solve tuning problems.
Name's Luca.

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#8
Quote by Spambot_2
I took the survey, but I don't see it going far.

If you want an electronic control you need a motor, and even a small electric motor will not be that small and easy to put on a guitar.
Also hella unpractical imo.

Also I don't really see how an electrical one would solve tuning problems.


See post #5
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#9
Oh, we've been down this dusty path before...
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

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#10
Quote by Arby911
See post #5
Sorry, checked it out now.

So the product in store is a 6ch whammy to apply to the guitar.
How would you mechanically act on the pitch shifting control specific for each string?
Also using piezo saddles would mean not using the onboard p/up's.
Are your piezo saddles going to sound better than my '52 tele p/up's copies?
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#11
Quote by Spambot_2
Sorry, checked it out now.

So the product in store is a 6ch whammy to apply to the guitar.
How would you mechanically act on the pitch shifting control specific for each string?
Also using piezo saddles would mean not using the onboard p/up's.
Are your piezo saddles going to sound better than my '52 tele p/up's copies?


Not necessarily, that was dspellman's suggestion, not the OP's.

It doesn't have to mechanically act on the strings at all. Think of it as a hand-controlled infinitely variable combination Morpheus Droptune/Capo pedal that sits where a conventional tremolo would go. Of course individual saddle pickups would give vastly more programmability and variation, but they aren't absolutely necessary.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#12
If you're into engineering, why is the survey more like marketing research? Very simple at that.
#13
Your survey is broken. I answered that I would NOT want an electric whammy bar and it made me still answer the last one

I abuse the hell out of the 6-point trem (I have it 2-pointed) on my MiM Strat and I never go out of tune. And when I say 'abuse the hell out of', I ****ing mean it.

I guess maybe if you have something like a Squier Bullet and this thing cost like $20 to add, it would have a selling point, but it sounds about as useful as the self-tuning Gibsons, and would probably last about as long as they did in popularity on the market.

If it ain't broke...
#14
I still think it would be amazing regardless. Imagine installing this on a non trem guitar? Just a wire that runs between the jack output and the guitar cable. Add MIDI out to that and I'd buy the hell out of that.

A Whammy pedal in an actual tremolo form.
Guitars:
Davison SG
Line 6 Variax 600
Line 6 JTV 69s
Squier Classic Bibe Telecaster Thinline
#15
I would imagine it would be like the whammy bar on a guitar hero controller but in an actual guitar. A guitar with a built in whammy circuit and a bar instead of a foot controller. that being said...a good quality trem, nut and tuners and you really shouldn't be having that much of an issue.
#16
Why do you all have so much trouble with keeping the tuning on Floyd Roses? Sure, they go out when you break a string but I don't find my Schaller FR going out of tune any more than anything else.
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#17
I have absolutely zero problems with tuning stability with my Floyd Rose, which is essentially the same design it's been since like a decade before you were born, OP. You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't need fixing.
#18
Quote by mjones1992
Your survey is broken. I answered that I would NOT want an electric whammy bar and it made me still answer the last one

I abuse the hell out of the 6-point trem (I have it 2-pointed) on my MiM Strat and I never go out of tune. And when I say 'abuse the hell out of', I ****ing mean it.

I guess maybe if you have something like a Squier Bullet and this thing cost like $20 to add, it would have a selling point, but it sounds about as useful as the self-tuning Gibsons, and would probably last about as long as they did in popularity on the market.

If it ain't broke...


All of this.
#20
Here's a better project - a quick release locking nut that actually works and doesn't look like a monstrosity.
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Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


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#21
ibanez edgepro with ZPS has really got a lot of things beat. you can pop a normal size bar in or screw one around. either work fine.

i didn't read anything other than the OP so i can keep myself blind to the conversation to give you an accurate answer.
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#22
took it.
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alright "king of the guitar forum"


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#23
Quote by Cathbard
Here's a better project - a quick release locking nut that actually works and doesn't look like a monstrosity.


Now there's an idea.
#24
Quote by Cathbard
Here's a better project - a quick release locking nut that actually works and doesn't look like a monstrosity.

I like this idea

Or make a really weird sounding pedal. Make something no one's ever heard before. Make my guitar sound like a zebra
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#25
Quote by Cathbard
Here's a better project - a quick release locking nut that actually works and doesn't look like a monstrosity.


shhhhhh gibson might hear.

(i guess just on the lifeson or what model though)
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
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Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#26
I don't use the whammy on my strat all that often.
Don't have any tuning problems with it either.
If I wanna get really wild with a whammy bar, I use my Ibanez S570
#27
Quote by Cathbard
Why do you all have so much trouble with keeping the tuning on Floyd Roses? Sure, they go out when you break a string but I don't find my Schaller FR going out of tune any more than anything else.


I've never had a problem with a decent FR going out of tune but they aren't the only trem out there.
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
Last edited by Arby911 at Oct 11, 2014,
#28
Quote by Arby911
I've never had a problem with a decent FR going out of tune but they aren't the only trem out there.

True, but wasn't the FR the solution? Problem solved, move along.
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#29
Quote by the_bi99man
I have absolutely zero problems with tuning stability with my Floyd Rose, which is essentially the same design it's been since like a decade before you were born, OP. You're trying to fix a problem that doesn't need fixing.

this
#30
Quote by Cathbard
True, but wasn't the FR the solution? Problem solved, move along.


Unless you want to do heavy bends. Or quickly change strings. Or keep playing when a string breaks.

If none of those matter then yes, the FR was the solution...
“Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge.”
Charles Darwin
#31
Quote by Arby911
Unless you want to do heavy bends. Or quickly change strings. Or keep playing when a string breaks.

If none of those matter then yes, the FR was the solution...


Ibanez ZR bruh.
Spin 'round carousel when your horse isn't screwed in.

My band:
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(For fans of Death/Groove/Prog Metal)

Ibanez RGA42E
Ibanez S420
LTD H-301
Ibanez RG520
Peavey Predator USA
Douglas Grendel 725
Line 6 Pod HD500X
#32
We'll finally be able to whammy without a whammy bar...
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#33
The best trem I've ever had or used is the Steinberger system. Fastest string change of any bridge, including fixed bridges. Stayed in tune perfectly, could be swept to absurd degrees. I had to buy double balled strings but it was just a joy to live with. I'd have another.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
Quote by Spambot_2
Sorry, checked it out now.

So the product in store is a 6ch whammy to apply to the guitar.
How would you mechanically act on the pitch shifting control specific for each string?
Also using piezo saddles would mean not using the onboard p/up's.
Are your piezo saddles going to sound better than my '52 tele p/up's copies?


That was my suggestion, not the OP's.

There are a ton of ways to mechanically do pitch shifting; you're not locked into a traditional whammy bar in that same spot, though you can certainly do that. The Trem itself wouldn't have to be anywhere near the strings.

Using the piezo saddles would mean not using the magnetic pickups, yes.
I have a Variax (JTV-89F) that uses both mag pickups and piezos. Line 6 has rather cleverly modeled the 89's own pickups, which means that if you shift from magnetics to piezos, you get the same sound. So on the 89, when you switch to alternate tunings, you can sound exactly like the mags, but tuned differently.

The other advantage, of course, is that you could pitch shift just one, any two, or any other combination of strings. So you could duplicate a B Bender without tearing up your tele to install it.

One other thing to think about; you could vary the amount of pitch shift for each string. So that, for example, at the maximum travel you could have a completely different tuning. For a given amount of trem actuator travel, one string could go down an octave, another just a fifth, another a third and since there's no mechanical connection to the strings, a fourth could actually go UP in pitch while the remaining two did nothing at all.
#35
Quote by Cathbard
Here's a better project - a quick release locking nut that actually works and doesn't look like a monstrosity.


I liked the old Kahler Flip Lock behind-the-nut string locks, but you still had to screw down the actual locking bit. The flip alone wasn't good enough.

Last edited by dspellman at Oct 12, 2014,
#36
Yeah, but they'd qualify as "monstrosity."
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#37
i love the surface mount Kahler trem can't really do much wrong. but IMO i think atm ibanez Edge ZR is about as good as you can bet. i can have my strings flloppy and pull all the way up and nothing and i NEVER go out of tune.

i like the idea for a quick change relief locking nut.
WTLT 2014 GG&A

Quote by andersondb7
alright "king of the guitar forum"


Quote by trashedlostfdup
nope i am "GOD of the guitar forum" i think that fits me better.


Quote by andersondb7
youre just being a jerk man.



****** NEW NEW NEW!
2017-07-07 2017-07-07 Update and a Chat On Noise Constraints *** NEW FRIDAY 7/7
2017-04-13 RUN AWAY from COMPUTERS!!! TCE? RANT ALERT!!!
2017-03-02 - Guitar Philosophy 1001- Be Prepared For the Situation (Thursday 2017-03-02)
2017-02-21 How to Hot-Rod the Hell of your Stratocaster for $50! (Tuesday 2017-2-21)
Resentments and Rambling from a Guitar Junkie
---> http://trashedengineering.blogspot.com/
#38
Fixing a problem that doesn't exist, I see.
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#39
Quote by Cathbard
Yeah, but they'd qualify as "monstrosity."


And yet, a good deal sleeker than the "neck choker" jewelry that we have with the current Floyd lock nuts. I have an all black one on an all black guitar and it's fairly unobtrusive.

You'd think that something like this could be designed into the guitar, but most manufacturers use mass-produced stuff and call it a day. Even the five-figure guitar builders.
#40
Yeah, it's a bit odd that nobody's come up with a decent solution for it yet. When that Kahler system is the neatest solution out there (that actually works) something is wrong. The first person that solves it could stand to make a lot of moolah.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band