#1
It's time I replaced the tubes in my 6505+ head but I was hoping there was a way that I could get better cleans while retaining all the balls of the lead channel. Any ideas?
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#2
One of the main reasons why the 6505's cleans aren't great is that you never see 6505's paired with greenback's.
Meaning, they don't pair 6505's with speakers that sound much warm and organic and the stuff that generally makes people say a clean channel sounds good.

That said, JJ's everywhere if you're on the cheap and NOS Philips in the pre and JJ's in the power amp if you wanna spend a bit more and NOS Philips in the pre and either Philips or winged C's in the power amp if money isn't a problem.
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#3
It's a hi-gain amp design, cleans will never be great. Tubes may make a very slight difference, but I wouldn't count on it
#4
JJs all around, 12AT7 in the phase inverter, get the amp modded so you can bias it warmer, try out some different speakers. As above, though, don't expect a tube change to turn your amp into a Twin Reverb. You can still improve it a lot, though. The tubes are actually the smallest part of the equation if the other options are speakers and modifying the preamp.

"Better" is a bit vague on the cleans, but in general that's where I'd start. If you get it more dialed in you can start thinking about getting specific tubes or preamp voicing tweaks on the clean channel once you know exactly what you need to be "better."
#6
the very first tube on the amp is v6 which is the input for the clean channel. If you switch that out for a 12AY7, then you should get more headroom in cleans. there are other tubes you can use, all have different gain characteristics. Its all upp to taste, I happen to like 12AY7.
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#7
1. 5751 or ECC803 in V1. Can be NOS or JJ -- but JJs have worked VERY well for me. Both are slightly lower in gain than a standard 12ax7; the 5751 moreso -- so it will help your cleans a bit more than the ECC803. As for how they affect your high-gain sound, BOTH will sound better than a 12AX7. They both provide greater clarity/less fizz. A 5751 will have a heavier bottom end with a little less grind on the mids, but will give a tighter riffing response. An ECC803 will be a little less tight, have a little less bottom end, but have a richer, more "grindy" midrange that sounds great.

2. 5751 or 12AT7 in the phase inverter spot. A 12at7 will improve the cleans a tad more, but maybe cuts into the "balls" very slightly; **note, adequate gain can still be had, but gain isn't all there is to an amp's "ballsiness" -- I don't know how else to describe it. A 5751 there will still help the cleans a lot, with absolutely no sacrifice to the brootz (in fact, the amp will sound better on all channels.)

If you go with JJs, you could change two tubes for a HUGE improvement on your cleans for around $25 shipped. That's where I'd start before looking into speakers, extension cabs, etc.

You know, a big part of my clean sound comes from just backing the volume knob off a bit on my guitar. This is especially helpful with active pickups.
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Last edited by KailM at Oct 20, 2014,
#8
Quote by KailM


If you go with JJs, you could change two tubes for a HUGE improvement on your cleans for around $25 shipped. That's where I'd start before looking into speakers, extension cabs, etc.




Really? define huge I guess, I personally doubt it. Love to hear some clips
#9
^^You're free to doubt it all you want. Either way, it's a small amount of money and even if it were a mild improvement, it would be worth it to me. Thankfully, it's not a mild improvement, it's a pretty big improvement. I could post some clips comparing the differences but a.) I don't yet have a super high-quality method of recording, b.) there is no guarantee that you have listening equipment of high enough quality to discern said differences, and c.) I don't feel the need to justify my statements to you with proof.
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#10
a. fair enough
b. so now you need serious high quality equipment to discern huge differences?
c. well that's a bit weak y' know...

New tubes?
Definitely a difference!
Not at all huge though, unless one of the tubes was broken.
Name's Luca.

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Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
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#11
There is deff a difference in tube sounds, but it is not like it makes a 6505 into a Twin. There is a larger difference noticeable when changing tube types, but to what extent is up to you to decide.

The 5751 is a great suggestion. The 12at7 is also a good one and you can get NOS 12at7 for cheap.
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#12
remember that if you want to keep the lead tone as is but change the clean tone, you should ONLY change v6 and maybe the PI tube which I believe is V4. V6 is the clean input and the only tube that is exclusively for the clean channel. Changing V2, V3, or V5 will alter the lead tone.
Marty Friedman is GOD!

curently in a SEX MACHINEGUNS and X JAPAN phase AND Galneryus AND Anthem phase

damn J-Metal, why you so awesome

My Gear:

Schecter Hellraiser V-1 fr
Ibanez RG321mh
Fender GDC-200sce
Peavey Vypyr 30 w/ sanpera 1
#13
Quote by Spambot_2
a. fair enough
b. so now you need serious high quality equipment to discern huge differences?
c. well that's a bit weak y' know...


b. That's not what I meant. It's just that on standard headphones, it's pretty hard to hear every nuance that you would hear with a nice pair. This occurs all the time on Youtube comparisons of pickups, tube changes, etc. On the Youtube video, you can hardly tell a difference without quality headphones or speakers, but in person there's a very obvious difference to the person who made the video.

c. More or less, I know what I hear, and I was just giving my input -- which was based on the fact that my suggestions would perhaps save TS a lot of money. But money is money -- if some people need lengthy testing and experimentation to justify a purchase of $25-30 USD, then I guess I can understand that. I'm just not going to bother myself personally with proving the merits of said purchases.
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
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#14
Quote by Robbgnarly
There is deff a difference in tube sounds, but it is not like it makes a 6505 into a Twin. There is a larger difference noticeable when changing tube types, but to what extent is up to you to decide.

The 5751 is a great suggestion. The 12at7 is also a good one and you can get NOS 12at7 for cheap.


Definitely. And I hope people didn't mistake my original post as claiming such. Could you make a 6505 sound like a Fender Twin? Well, somebody probably could. But at that point it would no longer be a 6505...

My recommendations improve the cleans to a point where the player will probably say to himself, "yeah, the cleans sound a lot better -- much warmer." Not, "gee, my 6505 sounds just like a Fender now."
Atmospheric dark metal w/ black and death metal influences:
(My Soundcloud page):

Pestilential Flood