#1
Yo its been a while,

I finally finished my guitar!

It sounds really f**king heavy and squeals like a bitch, but I have come across a problem.

It seems that when I play high notes it goes out of tune, like the frets aren't placed properly.

My '12th' harmonic also plays on the middle of the 13th fret, does this mean the scale length is wrong?

How can I fix this?

(here is the guitar btw)

#2
measure from the nut to the to the center of the 12th fret.
double that number and measure from the nut to the bridge saddle. Thess should be pretty much the same numbers. if not, your saddles need to be adjusted or your bridge is in the wrong place

I suspect it is because the neck is a 25.5" scale and the body is a 24.5"/24.75"
2002 PRS CE22
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Oct 22, 2014,
#3
And by "middle of the 12th fret", he means the actual fret wire, not the space that people refer to as the 12t fret.
#4
Quote by Robbgnarly
measure from the nut to the to the center of the 12th fret.
double that number and measure from the nut to the bridge saddle. Thess should be pretty much the same numbers. if not, your saddles need to be adjusted or your bridge is in the wrong place

I suspect it is because the neck is a 25.5" scale and the body is a 24.5"/24.75"



Measured it just then, you're right, the second measurement is few cm longer than the first measurement. How can I fix this? Can I shorten the neck? How can I check what scale length each part is?

Thanks.
#5
This is sort of a fundamental of guitar building; you have to know what scale you're working with and position the bridge accordingly before you start.

No, you can't simply shorten the neck; the frets are placed at precise distances from each other for the overall scale of the guitar. You need to replace the neck with one that's the correct scale length (and fret distances) for where everything else is placed on the guitar.

If it's a bolt-on neck, you may be able to find a "conversion" neck from one of the neck suppliers, such as Warmoth that will support the longer scale on that body.
Last edited by dspellman at Oct 23, 2014,
#6
Quote by dspellman
This is sort of a fundamental of guitar building; you have to know what scale you're working with and position the bridge accordingly before you start.

No, you can't simply shorten the neck; the frets are placed at precise distances from each other for the overall scale of the guitar. You need to replace the neck with one that's the correct scale length (and fret distances) for where everything else is placed on the guitar.

If it's a bolt-on neck, you may be able to find a "conversion" neck from one of the neck suppliers, such as Warmoth that will support the longer scale on that body.



How do I know what scale length the body is?

Also I live in Australia so there is no Warmoth
#7
How can I check what scale length each part is?

You just did. I'm afraid there isn't a simple solution to this .. and I'm seriously surprised the issue wasn't considered during the build plan.

Best solution is build another guitar for the 25.5 neck and get a 24.75 neck for this one. Two guitars - yay!
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#8
Quote by Danustar
You just did. I'm afraid there isn't a simple solution to this .. and I'm seriously surprised the issue wasn't considered during the build plan.

Best solution is build another guitar for the 25.5 neck and get a 24.75 neck for this one. Two guitars - yay!



Funny thing is that I actually ordered this as a custom kit, can't believe that they got scale length wrong.

One last thing.... 24.5 or 24.75
#9
24.75 is the typical scale of SG guitars

This will work and they ship world wide
www.guitarfetish.com/LP-Style-22-Fret-neck-Trapezoid-Inlays-Solid-Maple-Rosewood-FB-NO-FINISH_p_5509.html

or ebay
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#10
well thats not nessesarily true. we assume because its an SG shape. that doesnt mean a kit could have been made with an SG body style 25.5 scale.

so either the kit you bought was very poorly designed, or some adjustment is off. that is what intonation is for, but intonation is for minor changes. going a whole fret off tune isnt going to be fixed by intonation. but adjusting your bridge saddles may help.

honestly, if your off about 1.5 steps at the 12th fret, your whole neck is most likely out of tune. do all the notes tune right? have you checked the harmonics on all the frets? octaves on all teh frets?
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#11
Quote by ikey_
well thats not nessesarily true. we assume because its an SG shape. that doesnt mean a kit could have been made with an SG body style 25.5 scale.

so either the kit you bought was very poorly designed, or some adjustment is off. that is what intonation is for, but intonation is for minor changes. going a whole fret off tune isnt going to be fixed by intonation. but adjusting your bridge saddles may help.

honestly, if your off about 1.5 steps at the 12th fret, your whole neck is most likely out of tune. do all the notes tune right? have you checked the harmonics on all the frets? octaves on all teh frets?


Not sure what you mean, everything above the 8~ fret sounds like its half a semitone off, probably because only hear the difference there. Are you sure there is no way I can mod the guitar so that the scale length is corrected? I measured the neck nut to 12th, and sure enough its 25.5" meaning that it is probably the body that is 24.75 (or 24.5).

Anyway I can check the body's scale length, and any way I can mod the guitar so that is has a correct scale length?
#12
You can somehow pull the neck away from the body so that the distance between the nut and bridge is 25.5". How you are going to do that is out of my scope of knowledge. Or move the bridge backward. The only way to mod the neck is to take of the fretboard, measure your scale length and then calculate where the frets have to be, make a new fretboard an put it back on.

As for how to figure out body scale length, i have no idea. I vaguely remember reading, that on 22 fret guitars, the neck pickup is usually positioned where the 24th fret should be, get better tone or whatever. You could measure that and multiply the number by 4 to get at least a rough estimate. But i have no idea where on the pickup that point is centered, so i dont know if you can measure it precise enough.
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#13
Quote by gorkyporky
You can somehow pull the neck away from the body so that the distance between the nut and bridge is 25.5". How you are going to do that is out of my scope of knowledge. Or move the bridge backward. The only way to mod the neck is to take of the fretboard, measure your scale length and then calculate where the frets have to be, make a new fretboard an put it back on.

As for how to figure out body scale length, i have no idea. I vaguely remember reading, that on 22 fret guitars, the neck pickup is usually positioned where the 24th fret should be, get better tone or whatever. You could measure that and multiply the number by 4 to get at least a rough estimate. But i have no idea where on the pickup that point is centered, so i dont know if you can measure it precise enough.



Ok now im really stumped... I just measured the nut to the bridge and it came to be 26.3 inches........

I'm really bloody confused now.
#14
fwiw, Warmoth happily ship to Australia.

That's the least of your problems tho. Is there a customer service avenue you could pursue through the place you bought the kit? Firstly, for the scale info you're after and secondly, for an exchange and/or refund. Cos you've been somewhat screwed.

26.3" is almost baritone territory.
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#15
^But the neck scale is 25.5, the body is not so it will not work


I agree TS get a refund because you got screwed
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Oct 24, 2014,
#16
Quote by Robbgnarly
^But the neck scale is 25.5, the body is not so it will not work


I agree TS get a refund because you got screwed



Yeah I'm working on getting a refund, they seem to have stopped communication with me.

But since this scale is so long, maybe I can like cut the neck slot a little further towards the bridge, and then get it to be 25.5"?
#17
Did you buy from somewhere reputable, or was it a bit shady? To be honest, theres nothing you can really do apart from get a refund. Horrible for you, hope you can get it sorted.
#18
Quote by conanwarrior
Did you buy from somewhere reputable, or was it a bit shady? To be honest, theres nothing you can really do apart from get a refund. Horrible for you, hope you can get it sorted.



Yeah definitely shady, bought it from Alibaba. Good thing I got the kit cheap tho, I don't think I can get a refund anymore due to paypal's 45 day policy.

This is what I reckon I can do.

(Everything will be in metric system sorry)

The current scale length is about 67 cm, I need it to be 65 cm. I reckon if I cut off the '25th' dead fret that would be 1 cm, and then maybe remove the neck pickup (don't ever use it) so I can slot the neck in 1cm further.

Or I could just slot the neck in 2 cm further instead of cutting the neck.

Hows that?
Last edited by alanw410 at Oct 24, 2014,
#19
You'd have to move the whole neck bridge-wards - ie, shortening the distance between nut and bridge. Just chopping off frets won't change anything.

That said, you'll have to at least remove some of the high fret overhang if there's actually a possibility of saving the neck pickup. That's assuming the deeper pocket doesn't end up reaching the pup cavity.

If it does, you could conceivably retain the 24 frets and cover the void with a pickguard something like this ..
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#20
Quote by Danustar
You'd have to move the whole neck bridge-wards - ie, shortening the distance between nut and bridge. Just chopping off frets won't change anything.

That said, you'll have to at least remove some of the high fret overhang if there's actually a possibility of saving the neck pickup. That's assuming the deeper pocket doesn't end up reaching the pup cavity.

If it does, you could conceivably retain the 24 frets and cover the void with a pickguard something like this ..


Yeah I don't ever use the neck pickup so I may as well 'hotrod' the guitar. That pickguard idea is pretty sweet.

I wonder if it's possible to set up coil splitting with a switch.
#21
Quote by alanw410
Yeah definitely shady, bought it from Alibaba. Good thing I got the kit cheap tho, I don't think I can get a refund anymore due to paypal's 45 day policy.

This is what I reckon I can do.

(Everything will be in metric system sorry)

The current scale length is about 67 cm, I need it to be 65 cm. I reckon if I cut off the '25th' dead fret that would be 1 cm, and then maybe remove the neck pickup (don't ever use it) so I can slot the neck in 1cm further.

Or I could just slot the neck in 2 cm further instead of cutting the neck.

Hows that?

yes if you can take 1cm off the neck and rout out another 1cm from the body . In theory it works, how well you can apply that is another issue.


The main thing is nut to saddle will be 25.5
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Oct 24, 2014,
#22
Before you start cutting up your guitar, I don't think it's been established that you have adjusted the saddles properly. There might be nothing wrong that a setup can't fix. Your picture is too low resolution to tell. It looks like your saddles are all over the place, actually. Also, it looks like the gap between the nut and first fret is way too big, which could also be the problem. Maybe post some decent pics of the bridge and nut areas.
#23
+1 ^^

I wonder if it's possible to set up coil splitting with a switch
You could do any manner of things to re-purpose the two now-defunct pots or their holes. Coil split or tap, killswitch, onboard effects .. haha, just when you thought you'd finished your project ..
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#24
Quote by runriot_z28
Before you start cutting up your guitar, I don't think it's been established that you have adjusted the saddles properly. There might be nothing wrong that a setup can't fix. Your picture is too low resolution to tell. It looks like your saddles are all over the place, actually. Also, it looks like the gap between the nut and first fret is way too big, which could also be the problem. Maybe post some decent pics of the bridge and nut areas.


I have never seen any saddles that will move 2cm and certainly not with a floyd...the nut isn't to far away, what you see in the picture is the locking nuts but it also has a normal nut between the locking nuts and the fretboard.


To see where the neck needs to sit take the measurement you got from the nut to the 12th fret and use that to measure from the bridge up
#25
Quote by runriot_z28
Before you start cutting up your guitar, I don't think it's been established that you have adjusted the saddles properly. There might be nothing wrong that a setup can't fix. Your picture is too low resolution to tell. It looks like your saddles are all over the place, actually. Also, it looks like the gap between the nut and first fret is way too big, which could also be the problem. Maybe post some decent pics of the bridge and nut areas.



Ok, so I measured the neck against my other guitar, the fret spacing is correct and positioned properly.

My bridge saddles actually aren't lined up in a line but I used the Low E string to measure the scale length (saddle on closest position to nut).

Here is a pic of the bridge

#26
Yeah, there's no way near enough travel there to intonate your way out of this.
Charvel DX-1 FR / DS-1 ST / DC-1 FR / Custom Strat / La Patrie Hybrid CW / Vypyr 30 / VK100 / 1960A
#27
Ok guys, I just got in contact with the seller, I will see if I can get a refund before beginning to mod the guitar.

Oh, and I wonder if its possible to do a 1 humbucker 2 volume 2 tone, North coil, humbucker, south coil with a 3 way switch config.
#28
Quote by alanw410
Ok guys, I just got in contact with the seller, I will see if I can get a refund before beginning to mod the guitar.

Oh, and I wonder if its possible to do a 1 humbucker 2 volume 2 tone, North coil, humbucker, south coil with a 3 way switch config.


I'm not the best with non standard wiring (so don't quote me ) but don't think you can do the 2 tones but you can do the 2 volumes with one pick up

If the seller doesn't come through I think your best bet is cut the neck back to 22 frets and that should give the movement you need to get the intonation right with out affecting the neck pick up.....

here's how I would do (may not be the "right" way but meh)...take the neck off

take the measurement I suggested in my previous then get a ruler or stick and tape it to the body with the end landing where the 12th fret should be in relation to the bridge. Then place the necks 12th by the end of the ruler and mark (on the neck) where the neck pocket (nearest the pick up) finishes. trace the neck pocket shape, draw in to the back of the necks heel. Now if you are good with a router then rout the heel away to the fretboard, if not so good with the router then remove 23rd & 24th frets and use jigsaw/bandsaw or hand saw and cut the whole neck away along the drawn lines.

There is a fairly good chance there won't be any heel left once you have cut it (in terms of where the body stops) but there isn't anything you can really do about that