#1
So right now im studying how to build basic traids and chords and I understand how to turn the triad into minors, diminished, and augmentd. My problem I find is that on the sheet music im using to study has several of the minor triads without ant flats. For example, the aminor and dminor triads do not have a flatted 3rd. So am I missing something or are these the correct way to make these traids. If it is the correct way, how would you make a regular a and d triad then? Thanks!
#2
nah, a minor triad always has a flattened third. Is there any key signature that gives the flattened third that your missing?

edit: that probably wouldn't be the case, cause that would really only make sense for key signatures like C# and such. Can't think of what else on the sheet music you'd be missing though.
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Last edited by Baby Joel at Oct 24, 2014,
#3
Not from what I see. Like the amin just has the regular notes without and flats in it, thats not right im guessing. So its probably a typo. If you wanted to know im using the book Begginer Jazz guitar by Jody Fisher
#4
wait, the a-minor is shown as not having flats in it?

so...the c is shown as natural? Cause the A Major has a c# in it. So if it's shown as c-natural, that'd be the flattened third. Same with d-minor, with the f-natural being the flattened third
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#6
I might be jumping to conclusions here, so sorry if I am, but it sounds like you need to reinforce your knowledge on the major and minor scale patterns.

The major scale pattern is: whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half (whole is a whole note/tone, half is a half note (or semitone))
for the A Major, as an example, that gives you with A-B-C#-D-E-F#-G#-A

so take the flattened third of that, and c# becomes c natural
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#7
ok, so youre saying that the chords are build off of the degrees of the major scale right?
#8
in essence yes. Before trying to figure out chords and stuff, definitely know and understand at least the major scale pattern, and the natural minor scale. I'd also recommend memorising the key signatures of the various scales, as it can come in handy when identifying chords.
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#9
Ok thanks man, im looking at the notes that makes up these different major scales and it makes sense now
#11
The term "flat third" is a bit misleading. I mean, yes, it is a flat third when compared to the third in a major chord. The "more correct" term is minor third. Minor chords have a minor third in them, major chords have a major third in them. The "symbol" for a minor third is b3 (a flat third). "Natural" intervals are always major or perfect. Everything is usually compared to the major scale.

And yeah, the chords in a certain key are built by harmonizing the key scale.

Minor (or "flat") third doesn't mean the note needs to be flat. It just means there's 1,5 steps between the notes. 2 whole steps is a major third.

I would suggest learning about whole and half steps and intervals. There's a half step between E and F. There's also a half step between B and C. There's a whole step between all the other notes. And that's why A minor doesn't have an actual flat third in it. The C is natural. If you count the whole and half steps between A and C, that's 1,5 steps - a minor third (A B - that's a whole step, B C - that's a half step). Same with D minor and E minor.

You could also look at the A major chord. It has a C# in it. To make a major chord minor, you need to flatten the third. So when you flatten a C#, it becomes a C.
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Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 24, 2014,
#12
Quote by Patsfan1281
So right now im studying how to build basic traids and chords and I understand how to turn the triad into minors, diminished, and augmentd. My problem I find is that on the sheet music im using to study has several of the minor triads without ant flats. For example, the aminor and dminor triads do not have a flatted 3rd. So am I missing something or are these the correct way to make these traids. If it is the correct way, how would you make a regular a and d triad then? Thanks!


What is the key signature for the sheet music?

If the key signature is C major/A minor, then you wouldn't expect sharps or flats on an Am chord.
#13
Quote by Patsfan1281
So right now im studying how to build basic traids and chords and I understand how to turn the triad into minors, diminished, and augmentd. My problem I find is that on the sheet music im using to study has several of the minor triads without ant flats. For example, the aminor and dminor triads do not have a flatted 3rd. So am I missing something or are these the correct way to make these traids. If it is the correct way, how would you make a regular a and d triad then? Thanks!


I think you ask a good question, but I think two things would help you in understanding.

Make sure you understand intervals in more than just letter notes. A C is a minor 3rd from A and a C# is a major 3rd away. They share the same alphabetical letter in their name name: C. Learn your intervals as far as distance, and these distinctions will be easier to understand.

Also make sure you are strong on the letters in the chromatic scale, and know that there isnt anything between E and F but D and E you have D#/Eb. If you don't have these as solid in the pocket fundamentals, your understanding of these larger questions will be affected.

Good luck to you!

Best,

Sean
#14
Quote by Sean0913
I think you ask a good question, but I think two things would help you in understanding.

Make sure you understand intervals in more than just letter notes. A C is a minor 3rd from A and a C# is a major 3rd away. They share the same alphabetical letter in their name name: C. Learn your intervals as far as distance, and these distinctions will be easier to understand.

Also make sure you are strong on the letters in the chromatic scale, and know that there isnt anything between E and F but D and E you have D#/Eb. If you don't have these as solid in the pocket fundamentals, your understanding of these larger questions will be affected.

Good luck to you!

Best,

Sean

Thanks and right now im looking at the notes on the guitar neck and see that there isnt anything between E and F, and B and C. I am right right?
#15
The source of your confusion, like Maggara said, is that when they say "flat" third, a more accurate term is "lowered" third.

If the distance between the root and 3rd is the interval of a M3rd (4 semitones), you have a major triad.

If the distance is a m3rd (3 semitones), you have a minor triad.

Let me know if that makes sense; that'll help you spell triads regardless of key signature.

EDIT: You are half right. Depending on what key we are in, the E could be spelled as Fb and vice versa. Same goes for B and C.
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Last edited by Jet Penguin at Oct 24, 2014,
#16
Oh know I believe understand what you guys mean now. Basically from what ever root you start on on the major scale that third whether its a natural, sharp, or flat will be lowered. For example, the third of Bb is D so the D will be flatted to Db.
#17
Exactly, and if you were in D :

The third is F#, but you would LOWER it to F nat., not "flat" it to Fb.

You got it.
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#18
Quote by Patsfan1281
Thanks and right now im looking at the notes on the guitar neck and see that there isnt anything between E and F, and B and C. I am right right?


Precisely. So whereas, A# is the same note as Bb, E# is the same note as F. Cb is the same as B.

Seems pedantic, but it does come up. For instance, Db7=Db F Ab Cb.
Cbmajor=Cb Eb Gb