Page 1 of 3
#1
Maybe this is going to turn into a rant. Hopefully not. Bear with me guys.

I own a Gibson Les Paul studio "60's tribute." Paid for it in 2012 for about $900. Its a 2011.
This guitar has a nice plain top, that looks pretty nice under the right light. It also is a good sounding guitar when things work correctly. But at 4AM, after everything this guitar has put me through, that's about all I can say positively about this guitar at the moment.
Its caused me nothing but trouble. It started with the "classic" Gibson problem, which would be tuning and intonation problems. The G string falls out of tune. Intonation can't be even close to perfect. But thats supposed to.... come standard with the guitar? As I've been told? I tell people about this issue and they all shrug their shoulders and say thats a common problem. That its a problem with Gibsons. Well...Why? That's ultimately what irks me the most about this company.
Did Gibson just decide "eh, **** it, all of our guitars will have intonation problems" and not try to address this problem directly? I'll get more into this later.

There are more problems with my guitar than just this, yet I still love my guitar. Har Har Har, I don't want to start a rant. I want to ask the UG community a couple questions about it, and about Gibson's Quality control in general:
Has Gibson's QC always been bad? Is the G string and intonation problem really something so common that it's just been accepted as a part of the package? How long has this been going on?
What can be done to actively fix this problem, by a tech or otherwise, and why hasn't this company already addressed it somehow head on?

Then there is something that I think many more people will have a problem with, and an opinion on: Gibson's hiking up their prices, and claiming to be bringing in the quality with all of these fancy new features. At the same time, discontinuing certain finishes, and so therefore sub $1000 guitars! Here is a reverb.com article outlining the basic changes Gibson is going through in the next year.
http://reverb.com/blog/gibson-to-increase-prices-update-models-for-2015

But aren't they a little late? Their reputation for having bad quality control, even on $1000+ priced guitars, is obvious from all the complaints I see on MLP, TGP, even here on UG. Something like a zero fret could have been used ages ago. And with prices going UP, of all the ways it can go, I think this company is squeezing themselves into a really tight spot. There's no telling what I would do if my brand new $3879 Gibby LP had some intonation problems. Plus, new features? Those guitars and this company are not Fender. These guitars are practically dipped in tradition, and you want a robot to tune it for me? Hmmm....Is that so I don't notice how shitty it's intonated? Clever!

And just to be a little snarky here (I had to), but I bought an American Strat and right out of the box, no problems. Still none.

I'll check back in on this thread tomorrow, but what do you guys think? Is this company doomed?
Gear:
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SX stratocaster
MIA Fender Stratocaster
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#2
Never had an issue with any Gibson I have owned. the G string going out is typically because the nut isn't slotted right. You can get an Earvana compensated nut that makes intonation much easier and closer to being correct (you will never get a guitar 100% intonated because the way the frets are placed)



People will still buy them if for nothing else the Name, look at Alfa Romeo, how much crap have they put out and people still love them because they are Alfa's.
2002 PRS CE22
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Last edited by Robbgnarly at Oct 24, 2014,
#3
Yeah Gibson in my experience tend to have a problem with their nut.All 3 LP's i've owned in my life have had the G-String issue.My SG was ok though,Must be just luck wether you get a good one.I bet they probably up their game when you get into CS prices.
#4
Quote by Saturated Fat

I'll check back in on this thread tomorrow, but what do you guys think?

If you want a top quality LP, buy a Tokai

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Is this company doomed?
Yes. But then we're all doomed anyway
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#5
I think they make excellent guitars and I have never had a problem with them. My two Les Pauls are of as good quality as any other guitar I have, but where they really excel is at playability.
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#6


I've never had intonation or tuning stability issues with my Flying V.
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#7
My personal opinion is that their quality control is pretty good once you start spending $3500 and up. Below that it's been hit or miss.

But Quality Control doesn't address fundamental issues with the LP, some of which that hidebound traditionalism *on the part of buyers* has caused.

The LP's design derives from 30's and 40's guitars that were never meant to be used the way an LP is today.

The tilt-back headstock with the strings splayed as they head for tuners wouldn't be much of a problem if we didn't do two-stop bends, putting enormous pressure on the nut to allow an accurate return of the string to tune. A straight-pull telecaster almost never goes out of tune due to bending, but that wasn't planned -- just accidental. There are straight-pull designs, even on other Gibson guitars, that change everything. But it's the hidebound users who would whine.

That same headstock didn't break all that much with the big jazz bodies, but the thinner LP body exposes that headstock as a poor design when it comes to breakage as well.

The design of the neck-body join is a leftover from those same swing-era guitars, and it's clunky and off putting when it comes time to move up the neck and use the upper frets. Back then that was rarely done; now it's routine. Fender has the same issues with its bolt-neck guitars. Ask anyone who's played one of the Gibson Axcess guitars; that shaved and contoured neck heel should be standard on all LPs.

It wouldn't kill Gibson to incorporate a tummy cut. Fact is, there's one on the Axcess, and it makes things very comfortable (thank you Neal Schon for both the contoured heel and the tummy cut). Even traditionalists would love that. But you're not going to get any of them to approve a forearm contour, so you'll always be able to identify an LP player by the permanent dent in his forearm.

Nitrocellulose lacquer is the bane of Gibson's existence, but they've brought it on themselves. It's toxic and carcinogenic to its workers and miserable to the environment, but Gibson has lined the pockets of Tennessee politicians to get the stuff grandfathered and varianced. And they've marketed it like crazy as some tone-enhancing fairy dust. Truth is, Gibson switched to it for much more practical reasons originally. It dried faster and allowed quicker production. These days Gibson is completely aware that a switch to a more modern finish is in the cards (they DO, after all, own the Epiphone factory...) with 24-hour dry-to-dry times, more even (and thinner) coverage methods, better protection for the guitars and far fewer harmful effects on workers and environment. Nitrocellulose is the source of a huge number of customer complaints, production delays and QC headaches, but their marketing has painted themselves into a corner. Imagine the furor at MLP if Gibson announced tomorrow that they were abandoning nitro on all but the historics.

Gibson has not been able to get decent, consistently good fretwork out the door at current production rates. The PLEK machines aren't doing PLEK jobs on everyone's guitars (this is misunderstood). They're cutting nuts on most and performing a standard fret mill on the higher end guitars. Unfortunately, the way that Gibson is using the PLEK machines is infuriating other PLEK owners; they see it as downgrading the PLEK reputation for precision and quality, while attempting to ride the coattails of that very reputation to suggest to its customers that they're doing something to fix their fretwork issues. The other way that Gibson has elected to skirt their fretwork issues is to market to buyers that higher action provides better tone. As a result, they cut their nuts too high for users to simply lower their bridges to lower the action on the guitars (you get buzzing above the 12th/15th frets). When you have a tech cut the nut down where it needs to be for low action, you discover that the frets aren't *quite* level, and now you're out the bill for a really good fret level as well. This business could be expected for a $400 Korean import, not so much for a $4000 Gibson.

Truth is, other manufacturers are doing a better job, and for less money, but you always have the fanboys who will claim that only a *Gibson* LP is a *real* LP, and they'll claim sound differences. We know better, of course, because there have been way more than 100 different LP models since the first one hit the shelves in '52, and because even the pickups are all over the ranch. But you can't fool the traditionalists who listen with their eyes, and who believe whatever Gibson Marketing tells them.
#8
Quote by HomerSGR
I think they make excellent guitars and I have never had a problem with them. My two Les Pauls are of as good quality as any other guitar I have, but where they really excel is at playability.


And yet, if I had my choice of any guitar in your gear list, it would be the Yamaha SG2000.
#9
Quote by dspellman
My personal opinion is that their quality control is pretty good once you start spending $3500 and up. Below that it's been hit or miss.

But Quality Control doesn't address fundamental issues with the LP, some of which that hidebound traditionalism *on the part of buyers* has caused.

The LP's design derives from 30's and 40's guitars that were never meant to be used the way an LP is today.

The tilt-back headstock with the strings splayed as they head for tuners wouldn't be much of a problem if we didn't do two-stop bends, putting enormous pressure on the nut to allow an accurate return of the string to tune. A straight-pull telecaster almost never goes out of tune due to bending, but that wasn't planned -- just accidental. There are straight-pull designs, even on other Gibson guitars, that change everything. But it's the hidebound users who would whine.

That same headstock didn't break all that much with the big jazz bodies, but the thinner LP body exposes that headstock as a poor design when it comes to breakage as well.

The design of the neck-body join is a leftover from those same swing-era guitars, and it's clunky and off putting when it comes time to move up the neck and use the upper frets. Back then that was rarely done; now it's routine. Fender has the same issues with its bolt-neck guitars. Ask anyone who's played one of the Gibson Axcess guitars; that shaved and contoured neck heel should be standard on all LPs.

It wouldn't kill Gibson to incorporate a tummy cut. Fact is, there's one on the Axcess, and it makes things very comfortable (thank you Neal Schon for both the contoured heel and the tummy cut). Even traditionalists would love that. But you're not going to get any of them to approve a forearm contour, so you'll always be able to identify an LP player by the permanent dent in his forearm.

Nitrocellulose lacquer is the bane of Gibson's existence, but they've brought it on themselves. It's toxic and carcinogenic to its workers and miserable to the environment, but Gibson has lined the pockets of Tennessee politicians to get the stuff grandfathered and varianced. And they've marketed it like crazy as some tone-enhancing fairy dust. Truth is, Gibson switched to it for much more practical reasons originally. It dried faster and allowed quicker production. These days Gibson is completely aware that a switch to a more modern finish is in the cards (they DO, after all, own the Epiphone factory...) with 24-hour dry-to-dry times, more even (and thinner) coverage methods, better protection for the guitars and far fewer harmful effects on workers and environment. Nitrocellulose is the source of a huge number of customer complaints, production delays and QC headaches, but their marketing has painted themselves into a corner. Imagine the furor at MLP if Gibson announced tomorrow that they were abandoning nitro on all but the historics.

Gibson has not been able to get decent, consistently good fretwork out the door at current production rates. The PLEK machines aren't doing PLEK jobs on everyone's guitars (this is misunderstood). They're cutting nuts on most and performing a standard fret mill on the higher end guitars. Unfortunately, the way that Gibson is using the PLEK machines is infuriating other PLEK owners; they see it as downgrading the PLEK reputation for precision and quality, while attempting to ride the coattails of that very reputation to suggest to its customers that they're doing something to fix their fretwork issues. The other way that Gibson has elected to skirt their fretwork issues is to market to buyers that higher action provides better tone. As a result, they cut their nuts too high for users to simply lower their bridges to lower the action on the guitars (you get buzzing above the 12th/15th frets). When you have a tech cut the nut down where it needs to be for low action, you discover that the frets aren't *quite* level, and now you're out the bill for a really good fret level as well. This business could be expected for a $400 Korean import, not so much for a $4000 Gibson.

Truth is, other manufacturers are doing a better job, and for less money, but you always have the fanboys who will claim that only a *Gibson* LP is a *real* LP, and they'll claim sound differences. We know better, of course, because there have been way more than 100 different LP models since the first one hit the shelves in '52, and because even the pickups are all over the ranch. But you can't fool the traditionalists who listen with their eyes, and who believe whatever Gibson Marketing tells them.
Another excellent post on this.I enjoy reading these.I always dreamed of a Gibson when i was a kid but when i finally got my first in my 20's i tried to pretend everything was ok with it until i finally accepted that it was not what i dreamed it would be quality wise.I've experienced this twice more with LP's since.I will one day fork out for a CS one because i know i still need to scratch that itch.
#10
Thank god you posted this! It’s been a week since someone started a thread about low-end Gibson guitars being shoddy.
#11
Quote by dspellman
The design of the neck-body join is a leftover from those same swing-era guitars, and it's clunky and off putting when it comes time to move up the neck and use the upper frets. Back then that was rarely done; now it's routine. Fender has the same issues with its bolt-neck guitars. Ask anyone who's played one of the Gibson Axcess guitars; that shaved and contoured neck heel should be standard on all LPs.

Ouch, yes. I have a live DVD where one of the guitarists almost exclusively uses a Les Paul, and one of his solos puts him well into the neck heel (nearly misspelled that "hell", which would've been equally appropriate) zone. Not that he seemed particularly fazed, but watching his thumb float awkwardly beside his palm as he did his fast runs I really wondered what would possess a guy to use a Les Paul when he needs to go past the 15th fret.

Fantastic post, by the way, very interesting read.

Do I still want a Gibson? Yes. But clearly there are much more urgent issues with their designs than the lack of automatic tuning.
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#13
The thing that perplexes me most is how the company has addressed the issue. By not addressing the issue. People have been replacing the nut on these guitars for quite a long time. But the zero fret is coming out now?
But in a more immediate setting, what can I do to get the intonation of this guitar right?
I have quite a lot of the tools, I have experience setting up guitars, but this problem has eluded me since I got it. I'll bring it into a tech if it means I have to crown the frets or get a new nut. I'm hoping I don't have to do that.
Here's the situation: My High E and B strings aren't intonated even closed to right. They are both very flat. However, the bridge saddle is all the way forward( closest to the neck) and it is still QUITE flat.
So what else can be done to correct intonation other than moving the bridge saddle?
Gear:
Gibson Les Paul Studio 60's Tribute
SX stratocaster
MIA Fender Stratocaster
Vox AD50 Vox AC15C1 Vox AC30CC2X Laney LH50r
Guitar>Joe Bonamossa Crybaby > AquaPuss> Sparkle Drive> Green Rhino> DejaVibe> Amplifier
CROWN VIC
#14
Quote by Saturated Fat
The thing that perplexes me most is how the company has addressed the issue. By not addressing the issue. People have been replacing the nut on these guitars for quite a long time. But the zero fret is coming out now?
But in a more immediate setting, what can I do to get the intonation of this guitar right?
I have quite a lot of the tools, I have experience setting up guitars, but this problem has eluded me since I got it. I'll bring it into a tech if it means I have to crown the frets or get a new nut. I'm hoping I don't have to do that.
Here's the situation: My High E and B strings aren't intonated even closed to right. They are both very flat. However, the bridge saddle is all the way forward( closest to the neck) and it is still QUITE flat.
So what else can be done to correct intonation other than moving the bridge saddle?


You can get a new nut. If the string in the current nut is launching off the back of the nut rather than off the front, you've got a big difference in intonation. The nut itself may not be positioned correctly.

If the nut is perfectly cut and positioned, he bridge saddle needs to move, but we all know the limitations of the standard bridge. There are other bridges out there with more travel (the Harmonica bridges from Schaller used in the '70's come to mind), and we've all flipped saddles a time or two to fake extra travel.
#15
The thing with Gibson's QC is that you can get an excellent low end model just as easily as you can get a terrible high end model.

The ONLY fact that can be said about any Gibson is that you have to try it before you buy it. I've owned several over the years, and played literally 100s of others.

The absolute best guitar I have ever found from any brand is a bottom end Faded Satin Studio Les Paul.

And yes, that is comparing it to Gibson Standards, Customs, other Studios, PRS, Gretsch, ESP and every other guitar I could get my hands on. With a budget of £2k, potentially up to £3k, I ended up spending £600 on the best guitar I could find.

Try before you buy is all that matters.

And kill any preconceptions you may have that only the expensive models are good. It is NOT true.
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#16
i havent found too many gibsons that can even sniff my carvin at about 1600 bucks. if they can, then they cost 3000-4000. same with PRS in terms of actual guitar body build quality and wood quality, but a 3000-4000 PRS will spank both the aforementioned brands on minor hardware qualities, wiring, pickups, and general fit and finish of the guts and small parts. i concede overall quality to PRS.

same goes for ernie ball. spanks gibson in the 1500-2000 range. i think ernie ball is very comparable to my carvin...like PRS, i think the pickups and guts will be higher quality.

i find a carvin needs a pickup swap and some rewiring to be really really impressive that for about 1500-2000 you get something that other brands would charge 3000-4000 for.

but in terms of structural issues? poor frets, bad tuning and intonation ,poor fit and finish, man thats busch league. i will probably never pay retail for a gibson. ever. that....and i like to seek out the boutiwue type stuff thats a bit out of the norm.
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Last edited by ikey_ at Oct 24, 2014,
#17
Damn Damn Damn And I've got my mind set on a J-45 next Friday. Does all tis bullshit apply to the Gibson acoustics too. Next thing you'll say is Kenny Chesney is gay. is he?
#18
Go play it, if you like it and are OK with the price, you won.
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#19
You folks really have me messed up. Frankly I'm not gonna worry about and trust the company. Like my Martin,when I had a problem they were only a phone call away. It ain't like the airbag you were expecting failed to deploy. Now that would suck. But a nut problem..well that sucks too depending on which nut.
#20
Quote by The Judist
If you want a top quality LP, buy a Tokai


I really don't agree with this my friend. If you want a top quality LP you will find one with Gibson. Sure you will also find one with Tokai, but the handful I've played I've never thought were better than a good R9. I agree they had a bad patch in the 90s, and are now heading back down that path with the tuning stuff, but a 2012 Standard/Traditional is a sweet guitar much more often than not.
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Sure upgrading your gear will make you sound better.


#21
Quote by dave11130
Next thing you'll say is Kenny Chesney is gay. is he?

Moreso than you will ever know.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

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#22
Quote by dave11130
Damn Damn Damn And I've got my mind set on a J-45 next Friday. Does all tis bullshit apply to the Gibson acoustics too.
Quote by dave11130


The acoustics are fine. Gibson doesn’t make low-end acoustics to do a shitty job manufacturing.

Next thing you'll say is Kenny Chesney is gay. is he?


Almost as gay as Tim Tebow. You can trust me on this, I have sucked many cocks and married another dude.
#23
Intonation I can't speak for, I've had to adjust most o my guitars for that. However, I have had the 'G' string issue on many, and it's always the nut. I do often find Gibson/Epi QC kinda silly. A few months ago I was browsing LP's and found the frets really piss poor, not polished as nicely as they could have been, a few lower models appeared to have wood filler or some similar looking substance (don't really know, just looked like woodfiller) around the frets, and the fret ends could damn near cut you! Went in last week to the same store and I damn near took a LP home, they were all done up nice and clean with great frets!
#24
Quote by dave11130
Next thing you'll say is Kenny Chesney is gay. is he?

Yes and so is his music. He is like a country Jimmy Buffet, who is gay as hell
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
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Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
GFS Greenie/Digitech Bad Monkey
Morley Bad Horsie 2
MXR Smart Gate
#25
Gibson's can't be intonated?????? What idiot stated that? Funny there's a lot of LP players out there that don't seem to have any issues either, some of them quite famous. I've had 6 LPs and none of them had any tuning stability issues and I use a lot of vibrato and bending when I play. According to my strobe tuner they all intonated well as well (I follow the D Erlewine method open and fretted 12th only no harmonics).
If the strings are new and installed properly, the tuners are snug on the headstock, the nut is well cut and the saddles notched nicely then there's no reason to have any tuning issues or intonation issues.
OP you need to learn how to setup and maintain a guitar. I'd suggest starting with D Erlewine's Guitar Player Repair guide and possibly investing in some nut files.
Moving on.....
#26
Thanks for the advice KenG, but I've owned that exact book(which I love and recommend to anybody btw) and have been repairing/setting up my own and my friends guitars for almost 10 years now. Short of a re-fret or a neck reset, any of the major repairs, I can do pretty much anything.
Also, if you read my OP you'll see that I bought a MIA Stratocaster- and I've never even had to set it up. Only changed the strings.
And what you're saying are quite a lot of requirements and what if's- it sounds like I'm going to have to need ALL of those parameters in order to even intonate the guitar- and shouldn't that have come out of the factory that way in the first place?
Guitars need to be set up and catered to your play style when you get them, I think thats a universally understood parameter here. But I have seen other posts in the past, and now myself included, describing how the guitar is completely incapable of being set up properly out of the factory, since It needs a new nut. But... I already paid for the nut it came with, I shouldn't have to trash it and get a new one!
Ha, Can I call Gibson and have them pay for it?? Maybe they can put their amazing new(psych) "Zero Fret" nut on it.
Gear:
Gibson Les Paul Studio 60's Tribute
SX stratocaster
MIA Fender Stratocaster
Vox AD50 Vox AC15C1 Vox AC30CC2X Laney LH50r
Guitar>Joe Bonamossa Crybaby > AquaPuss> Sparkle Drive> Green Rhino> DejaVibe> Amplifier
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#27
3 of those 5 factors are the owners responsibility. Wood shrinkage can have guitar HW coming loose. Neatly wrapped strings in good condition are the owners problem as well.

Most nuts are not cut optimally. Gibson's are usually a little high (for me) so you generally don't need to change them, just adjust them with the nut files. (All mine were/are original). A high nut can throw off your intonation too causing too much deflection of the strings in the lower regions.
Gibson set's their action a little high as well so it's not to everyone's taste but that's hardly a defect.
As for your nut, if there was something wrong you do have a warranty (lifetime in the US) and yes Gibson would pay to have it fixed at an authorized dealer/repair center. Something people often seem to forget.

I also have an inexpensive PRS SE 245 which I enjoy playing. While well made with a lacquer vs poly finish it needed some adjustments as well. The nut slots were cut deep into the nut because the nut height was ridiculous. It came with 9s (which are way too slinky for a short scale guitar) and when I cut the factory strings for my initial setup for 10's the slots were so tight the strings stayed trapped in the nut. So I not only had to widen the slots, I also had to take the nut height down. The rosewood had some weird greenish crud in the pores and I spent some time with steel wool cleaning that up as well. Now it plays well and stays in tune as do my R7 & R8.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Oct 25, 2014,
#28
Quote by KenG
Gibson's can't be intonated?????? What idiot stated that? .


Speaking of Dan Erlewine, you might check out his most recent video, in which he's building a relocation screw for a Gibson bridge that was located incorrectly at the factory (thus rendering intonation impossible) on a vintage 335.

Gibson's done this for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJIXdlOg-o
#29
Quote by dspellman
Speaking of Dan Erlewine, you might check out his most recent video, in which he's building a relocation screw for a Gibson bridge that was located incorrectly at the factory (thus rendering intonation impossible) on a vintage 335.

Gibson's done this for years.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YYJIXdlOg-o



I think since they went to CNC to locate the neck pocket, bridge, PU and controls some years ago the possibility of this has gone the way of the Dodo.

I've seen several Norlins for instance where the bridge and tailpiece were so poorly aligned that the strings did not sit in the center of the saddles, nor could they. Thankfully the precision work is taken out of human hands.

People are free to bash Gibson all they want, doesn't change the fact that they are being used successfully by amateur and professionals on a large scale.
Moving on.....
Last edited by KenG at Oct 25, 2014,
#30
Quote by KenG
I think since they went to CNC to locate the neck pocket, bridge, PU and controls some years ago the possibility of this has gone the way of the Dodo.


Nope.

I was at a local (LA) tech watching him do this very thing with a brand new (well, 2014) guitar for one of the GCs. May have been being paid for by Gibson, in fact.
Last edited by dspellman at Oct 25, 2014,
#31
Point is,When i put down two grand plus on a guitar i don't wanna have to cut my own nut.They could atleast do that bit for me.They should leave the factory in playable condition.I can honestly say i've never had one issue with a US Fender which is half the price,Infact i don't even need to get them setup,Why can't Gibson do this on Guitars which cost double?
#32
Quote by EyeballPaul
Point is,When i put down two grand plus on a guitar i don't wanna have to cut my own nut.They could atleast do that bit for me.They should leave the factory in playable condition.I can honestly say i've never had one issue with a US Fender which is half the price,Infact i don't even need to get them setup,Why can't Gibson do this on Guitars which cost double?

I don't know but I have played just as many non-stellar Fenders as I have Gibsons
2002 PRS CE22
2013 G&L ASAT Deluxe
2009 Epiphone G-400 (SH-4)
Marshall JCM2000 DSL100
Krank 1980 Jr 20watt
Krank Rev 4x12 (eminence V12)
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#33
I really wanted a Gibson, but after reading all these reports, I think I will get a Les paul shape guitar from another company. Its a shame, but it doesn't seem worth it to me now.
#34
Quote by conanwarrior
I really wanted a Gibson, but after reading all these reports, I think I will get a Les paul shape guitar from another company. Its a shame, but it doesn't seem worth it to me now.

Try some!I may have just been unlucky.There are plenty of good reports too
#35
Agreed. I don't own a Gibby, and don't intend to buy one. IMHO, there are lots of guitars out there that make their styles of guitars better than they do, but I don't reject them out of hand. Try some out.

You might just find The One.
Sturgeon's 2nd Law, a.k.a. Sturgeon's Revelation: “Ninety percent of everything is crap.”

Why, yes, I am a lawyer- thanks for asking!

Log off and play yer guitar!

Strap on, tune up, rock out!
#36
There is room for variation in any product that has any hand made element in them.

I've played shit guitars from every brand.

When I worked in retail we had to return an entire shipment of fenders because they all had QC defects.

It's not just Gibson that have off days.

1977 Burny FLG70
2004 EBMM JP6
2016 SE Holcolmb
#37
Quote by conanwarrior
I really wanted a Gibson, but after reading all these reports, I think I will get a Les paul shape guitar from another company. Its a shame, but it doesn't seem worth it to me now.




I would really hope that your're kidding, and that you won't let a thread in a forum influence your opinion of something before you have even tried a guitar and made your own opinion.
"Your signature can not be longer than 250 characters."

How you know you have too many guitars...

Apparently once also known as PonyFan #834553.
#38
The Memphis factory where ES models (& other hollow body models) and acoustic guitars are made probably doesn't have the CNC stuff the Nashville factory has.
Don't discount Gibson just because a few people are fixated on finding faults with the brand and using any instance of an issue to paint the entire line as being the same. A lot of successful artists (not forum members) use Gibsons everyday to record and play their music. That obviously flies in the face of the logic that they are problematic. There are also at least two forums dedicated to Gibson Les Pauls with a large international membership that shows Gibson makes a product people appreciate.
Before you write them off, try some at least and decide for yourself.
Moving on.....
#39
No i'm not kidding. Its not just this thread either, I have tried a few. If I found one that played well, for the right price I wouldn't refuse it, but my personal feelings are that I would be happier with a les paul shape from another company.
Just how I feel though, a lot of people want the Gibson name, and I see no problem with that either.
#40
Quote by KenG
The Memphis factory where ES models (& other hollow body models) and acoustic guitars are made probably doesn't have the CNC stuff the Nashville factory has.
*snip*
Before you write them off, try some at least and decide for yourself.


1 - The acoustics are made in Montana, not Memphis. We build the hollow and semi-hollow electrics only.

2 - I run a CNC here at Memphis, so I'm fairly certain we do use them.

3 - I agree, I try every guitar before I buy. Gibson or not.

No matter the company, or the QC in place, there are always stinkers getting out the door. It wasn't all that long ago a guy here had a PRS with a noticable warped neck, on a brand new PRS. I personally have never picked up a PRS that didn't have dead frets, buzz, and the intonation being off. I've also had issues with a Fender Blacktop Strat I owned. And the hands down worst electric I've ever picked up was a Taylor. One of the pickups didn't even work.
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