#1
Hello everyone.

Here to ask about some more pink floyd, great gig in teh sky.

http://www.hooktheory.com/theorytab/view/pink-floyd/the-great-gig-in-the-sky

The first part says in the key of D major but from reading posts on this site..people usually say that the key it is in is the chord which it resolves to...and becuas the first part does not even have a D chord in there, leads me to think some people here would have something to say about that.

In the verse, the Fmaj7 says it functions as a IV7/ii...Why wouldn't you just call it a V? Thanks.
#2
That site is just completely wrong. Why would the first four bars be in D major? I just don't hear it. I would say it's in F major.

There's no such thing as a IV7/ii (or it is not written that way). If we were in Bb major, that would mean the subdominant chord for the ii chord's key (C minor). Fmaj7 is not the IV of C minor. It could be the IV of C major. But if such chord appears, it usually means we are really not in the "original" key. A maj7 chord built on the fifth scale degree usually means a modulation/tonicization. Also, the key wasn't Bb major before it so it's not even a tonicization. It is the I chord.

Why is it in the key of F major? Well, the first chord is B minor but let's just ignore that. That could be a borrowed chord from the parallel major (D major) of the relative minor key (Dm) (and maybe that's also why it says the key in the beginning is D major which it definitely is not). The next chords are F major, Bb, F major again, Gm7 C7, Gm7 C7. That's a clear ii-V in F major (Gm7-C7). And the chord following the C7 is F major - we get a V7-I, dominant-tonic.

The next chord is Bbmaj7, again an IV chord in F major. But then happens something. Ebmaj7. That's not diatonic to F major, but not that rare in F major either. But the way it continues shows that we have a modulation. Cm7-F7-Bbmaj7. That's a ii-V-I in Bb major and a good sign of modulation (it could also be a tonicization but it's not because of the way it continues). The next chords are Eb major and Bb major. IV-I in the key of Bb major. That's where the intro part ends.

Notice how the last chord sounds stable. It just sounds "complete" (like this is the end of this part). And that's why Bb major is our tonic. But the key did change from F major to Bb major. Before the Ebmaj7 chord F major felt like the home chord. And that's why before the Ebmaj7 we were in F major. It didn't even look/sound like it was in Bb major.

I also don't agree with the "intro" and "verse" song section names here. I don't see a change of section. All these chords, from Bm to Bb major, are part of the intro. Then comes another section which is just a long repeated Gm7-C7 vamp. I just don't see a change of section after the first four bars.

Many times this kind of "theory" sites are wrong. I wouldn't trust them, especially if they have no explanations for the key changes and secondary dominants and non-diatonic chords and that kind of stuff.


Also, what we learned here is to look for the ii-V-I's. That usually tells you something about the key. It can also be a good sign of a modulation. So look for chord progressions like Am7-D7-G or Fm7-Bb7-Eb or whatever (same in minor is Dm7b5-G7-Cm or Bm7b5-E7-Am or whatever depending on the key). They are not that common in mainstream pop or rock music but if you look at jazz music or classical, they are common. It's also very common in the so called "black music".
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115
Last edited by MaggaraMarine at Oct 26, 2014,
#3
The site is talking spherical objects. D major???

For me, I would say

Bm (ignore) F Bb F/A (=F) is in F major
Gm7 C7 Gm7 C7 is a vamp in G Dorian (Im7 IV7)
Fmaj7 Bbmaj7 is in F major (Imaj7 IVmaj7), but the Bb maj7 is being used to transition into the key of Bb major
Ebmaj7 Cm7 F7 B7maj7 Ebmaj7 Bb are all in Bb major still (IVmaj7, iim7, V7, Imaj7, IVmaj7, I)
The final Bb would then set up Gm7 as the vi of Bb, but this is soon dispersed as the vamp continues where we're back into G mixolydian.

But I see the use of key/tonality differently to MM.

cheers, Jerry
Last edited by jerrykramskoy at Oct 26, 2014,
#4
thank you that was great. I'm more partial to maggara's explanation I think after all the arguments on here of not using modes to name your key. It also makes more sense to me anyway as a common key change to the IV (Bb) of the original key (F). Makes it seem like it isn't really that difficult. Except for the Bm at the beginning. I learned another cool thing...Borrowing from the parallel major of the relative minor..jeez music never ceases to amaze me how flexible it is....Does this mean literally every single chord could be accounted for?

Just off the top of my head if I used, instead of the Bm at the beginning, a Gb, could you say it is borriwing the bII from the relative minor. Or if I used a F#m could you say it is the borrowed vi chord of the relative major of the parallel minor?
Last edited by tyle12 at Oct 27, 2014,
#5
You can borrow chords from anywhere. It's just the relationship gets more tenuous the further away you get from the orginal key, and hence the more jarring (or rather the more imposing) is its effect, and its need to resolve.

cheers, Jerry
#6
Quote by tyle12
thank you that was great. I'm more partial to maggara's explanation I think after all the arguments on here of not using modes to name your key. It also makes more sense to me anyway as a common key change to the IV (Bb) of the original key (F). Makes it seem like it isn't really that difficult. Except for the Bm at the beginning. I learned another cool thing...Borrowing from the parallel major of the relative minor..jeez music never ceases to amaze me how flexible it is....Does this mean literally every single chord could be accounted for?

Just off the top of my head if I used, instead of the Bm at the beginning, a Gb, could you say it is borriwing the bII from the relative minor. Or if I used a F#m could you say it is the borrowed vi chord of the relative major of the parallel minor?

Yes, you can use any chords you want in any key (but using lots of non-diatonic chords may make it sound like it's in another key).

I'm not sure if my explanation for the Bm chord was really correct but that's one way to look at it.

If in the key of F major you use the Gb major chord, it is not really borrowing it from any key. I would say it's just a chromatic alteration. You could call it the "Neapolitan chord". bII is a pretty common chord. It could also be looked as the tritone substitution for the V7 chord. Though then the bII chord would be a dom7 chord.

F#m doesn't belong to the relative major of the parallel minor. The parallel minor of F major is F minor. The relative major of F minor is Ab. F#m is not the vi chord of Ab.

Also, if there really was a F#m chord in a song in F major, I would guess the key would have changed. The key could be A major or minor or maybe F# minor. It could also be C major. Going A-G-F#m-F is not that rare. But yeah, it would not be borrowed from the relative major of the parallel minor.

If there was a F#m chord, the F major would most likely feel like a (b)VI chord (in the key of A) or IV chord (in the key of C). It could also feel like the bI chord (in the key of F# minor). I came up with a chord progression that used a bI chord: Em-Eb-G-B (and then it would go back to Em). Though I'm not sure if I would call the Eb chord a bI chord because that name sounds pretty funky. But my progression does have an Em sound to it (though without the B major chord I think it would sound more like G major).
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

Gear

Bach Stradivarius 37G
Charvel So Cal
Fender Dimension Bass
Hartke HyDrive 210c
Ibanez BL70
Laney VC30
Tokai TB48
Yamaha FG720S-12
Yamaha P115