#1
Hello to all,

I've recently come to the conclusion that I've become too accustomed to classical guitars. I bought a Martin D15 years ago, and despite me enjoying the sound, it feels too awkward for me to play regularly.

It's because of that problem, that I'm now in search of a new steel string, if it exists.

I'm looking for something that's configured more like a classical, with steel strings.

Flat(ter) radius
As close to a 2 inch nut as possible. The current Martin I own is 1 and 11/16, which is far too small for me.
Wood type not important, but I'd prefer mahogany
Action isn't important
OK with used, in fact, I prefer it
No need for on board electronics
Located in Los Angeles, CA
Online ok
Price range is what I'd get from selling the Martin ($500-600) and that's pretty fixed
Solid wood preferred, even if not mahogany.

Thanks in advance
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
Last edited by megano28 at Oct 27, 2014,
#3
Thank you, I'll definitely take a look through that when I get to a computer
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
#4
Yeah I'd like to get something with a little wider nut too for my next purchase. Doing some research it looks like Seagull and Recording King make some well regarded guitars that are 1 3/4 - 1 13/16 at decent prices. Playing an A chord on a 1 11/16 nut guitar is a pain. I also prefer a flatter fretboard so I'm following this thread closely. My Ibanez has very flat fretboard but not a wide nut. My yamaha is fairly flat and nice to play, just barely wide enough.
#5
since you're in los angeles, go to mccabe's in santa monica and l.a. guitar sales in hollywood and try guitars out. there are some nice brands at those stores you won't see at GC, and i've run into wider neck guitars at those stores and westwood music often.

and as mentioned, seagull has some nice wider neck dreads. i don't see any wider neck recording king dreads at a glance, but their 000s are wider and nice sounding, too. you might also look into eastman.

here's a blueridge dread with a 1 3/4" nut (i prefer a wider nut guitar - 1 13/16 or 1 7/8, but find 1 3/4 a step up from 1 11/16), adi top (!) and mahogany b&s. i own a blueridge parlor and really like it, btw
http://www.maurysmusic.com/inc/sdetail/blueridge_br_240a/35915/126524
Quote by Skeet UK
I just looked in my Oxford English Dictionary and under "Acoustic Guitar", there was your Avatar and an email address!
Last edited by patticake at Oct 27, 2014,
#6
thanks, I'll check them out.

Regarding the other bit, 1 & 3/4" is too small. In a perfect world, I'd grab a 2 inch nut. But assuming they're not around cheap, I don't see why I'd go for something smaller, when 1 & 7/8" guitars are so common.

The guitar you linked is also going to be $200-300 out of my price range, after taxes. Because of that, it's definitely out of the picture. I'll check out the brand for sure, though.

Thanks, once again
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
#7
are you specifically looking for a dread? i ask because they're not too common with a 1 7/8" nut, and the only ones i've seen are well over the $2000 mark. have you tried the seagulls? the neck isn't as wide as you'd like, but the neck is chunky, filling the hand and making it seem wider.
Quote by Skeet UK
I just looked in my Oxford English Dictionary and under "Acoustic Guitar", there was your Avatar and an email address!
#8
Quote by patticake
are you specifically looking for a dread? i ask because they're not too common with a 1 7/8" nut, and the only ones i've seen are well over the $2000 mark. have you tried the seagulls? the neck isn't as wide as you'd like, but the neck is chunky, filling the hand and making it seem wider.


No, I'd prefer something bigger, but it's not required.

I've been looking at the Seagulls, and they have a signature series which is about 1.9" and practically perfect in terms of what I'm searching for. The problem is that, even used, they run about $900+

I think I have a couple pedals laying around, wouldn't hurt to reevaluate what I don't use anymore and can sell.
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
#9
I would recommend either the Recording King ROS-06 or ROS-16 (the ROS-06 has a standard C profile neck, the ROS-16 has a chunkier vintage V neck). Both have solid spruce top and mahogany back and sides.

Both are 000 style with a wide, 12 fret-to-body neck. Neck width at nut is 1-13/16 and the fretboard has a quite shallow radius. They have slot-head headstocks.

They are similar in size to a classical guitar. They are very well made, high quality guitars and are reasonably priced.

More info here:

http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros06

http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros16
#10
I like the style of those more, but why are those specific models so cheap? I get the feeling they should have another 200 added, if they were solid wood guitars.

The only thing I'm really debating now is whether I'd want a cut away or not. Thank you for the suggestion.
#11
Quote by Garthman
I would recommend either the Recording King ROS-06 or ROS-16 (the ROS-06 has a standard C profile neck, the ROS-16 has a chunkier vintage V neck). Both have solid spruce top and mahogany back and sides.

Both are 000 style with a wide, 12 fret-to-body neck. Neck width at nut is 1-13/16 and the fretboard has a quite shallow radius. They have slot-head headstocks.

They are similar in size to a classical guitar. They are very well made, high quality guitars and are reasonably priced.

More info here:

http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros06

http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros16


They both look like classical guitars. I thought the ts was looking for a steel string.
#13
Never saw a a steel string before with a slotted headstock. hmmm
#14
here's an all solid sitka/mahogany 000
http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros626
my husband owns one of this model, and it sounds sweet!

there's also a rosewood version and an all mahogany version, all with 12 frets to the body and all three have 1 13/16" nuts.
http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros616

Quote by megano28
I like the style of those more, but why are those specific models so cheap? I get the feeling they should have another 200 added, if they were solid wood guitars.

The only thing I'm really debating now is whether I'd want a cut away or not. Thank you for the suggestion.


Quote by rohash
Never saw a a steel string before with a slotted headstock. hmmm


really? there are lots of them.
#15
Quote by patticake
there's also a rosewood version and an all mahogany version, all with 12 frets to the body and all three have 1 13/16" nuts.
http://www.recordingking.com/products/guitars-all-models/guitars-ros626


I thought I wanted mahogany, but this one is beautiful. I'd prefer no fretboard markers, but I've always liked diamonds, when it can't be helped.

I looked online, and these are sellling around $800 new. As things stand, this is probably going to be what I go with.

I know you said your husband has the other one, but overall, how do you judge the playability and sound quality. I'm kind of meticulous about the overtones and stock intonation of these acoustics.

Either way, I'll be visiting a couple shops and possibly GC, to try these out. Would you recommend any other stores besides what was already mentioned?

Thanks, once again.
#16
the playability and sound quality are, in both of our opinions, very good - in its price range, the 626 isn't the best build - it's strong but expect little oddities. but has a great sound, clean and round. my husband had played his first 626 at mccabe's, and played it across several visits, but it disappeared when he wanted to buy it. i have mostly seen recording kings at mccabe's, although sometimes guitar centers have them "used", except in reality they're new (some are blems) with no warranty, which is how my husband got his for $500.

as with most mahogany b&s guitars, this doesn't have a lot of overtones - the rosewood version has more and a darker sound, which is to be expected.

btw, the finish tone varies on the same model from natural to dark vintage amber.
Last edited by patticake at Oct 29, 2014,
#17
What would you say has a better build quality in its range, that also has similar specs?

I'm capriciously against the manufacturer refurbished mark the acoustics get because of superficial reasons, but I wouldn't mind grabbing a used one, if all that meant was no warranty.

I was also referring to the Rosewood version, it made me completely forget about the all mahogany one. I also noticed the difference in finishes. I honestly don't care too much. As long as it represents the natural wood well enough.
Last edited by megano28 at Oct 29, 2014,
#18
in that price range you can get build quality or tone - i haven't run into guitars that really deliver both. a guitar with quality tone, decent finish and the little neatening touches cost more because the work costs more. and it gets even more difficult when you want a nut wider than 1 3/4", which i always do.

the recording kings at gc don't have any mark, nor do they claim to be refurbished. we used to see them mostly at the hollywood GC, btw. check 'em out, and definitely spend some time with ted at l.a. guitar sales, because he gets some unusual trade-ins.

Quote by megano28
What would you say has a better build quality in its range, that also has similar specs?

I'm capriciously against the manufacturer refurbished mark the acoustics get because of superficial reasons, but I wouldn't mind grabbing a used one, if all that meant was no warranty.

I was also referring to the Rosewood version, it made me completely forget about the all mahogany one. I also noticed the difference in finishes. I honestly don't care too much. As long as it represents the natural wood well enough.
#19
I must have misread your point then. I took it as you saying that there were better options in its price range. I completely understand that I won't be grabbing the Excalibur of guitars for $600-800, after all, this will still be second to my nylon string. All I really need is a guitar that doesn't make it feel like I'm trying on my shoes from grade school, whenever I decide I don't want to play my classical.

I can sacrifice on the tone somewhat, but the build specs are as firm as can be. Maybe if I found that special one, I'd drop more on it. Until then, I'll keep my eye out on the 626. I'll start listing what I have, and pay a couple visits to the GC/Sam Ash and LA Guitar Sales just to get through them all in one trip. If I haven't found anything there, I'll head over to McCabe's.

Thanks once again, any other suggestions are very welcome.
#20
Quote by megano28
I like the style of those more, but why are those specific models so cheap? I get the feeling they should have another 200 added, if they were solid wood guitars.

The only thing I'm really debating now is whether I'd want a cut away or not. Thank you for the suggestion.


They are not all-solid. The top is solid spruce, the back and sides are laminate mahogany. Personally I am perfectly OK with laminate back and sides - those components make virtually no contribution to the sound. Most of what you hear about all-solid guitars is sales hype.

I own a Recording King ROS-16. I bought it approx 18 months ago - it was the first time I'd seen the brand in the UK and I fell in love with it on the spot. I've played quite a few different RK models since then (and all have been excellent guitars) including the ROS-626 all-solid model that Patticake mentions - I could hear no difference between it and my ROS-16.

I believe these guitars probably fit the spec you are looking for better than any other guitars I know of. It's your choice, of course, but IMHO they are very hard to beat for the money.
#21
They are not all-solid. The top is solid spruce, the back and sides are laminate mahogany. Personally I am perfectly OK with laminate back and sides - those components make virtually no contribution to the sound. Most of what you hear about all-solid guitars is sales hype.

I've wondered about this myself and I've read both sides of the argument. It makes sense to me that the back is almost always pressed up against your body so it doesn't resonate much sound. However, how come there is a very noticable difference in sound between the materials B/S are made of? A solid spruce top with mahogany b/s(laminated or not) sounds much different than a solid spruce top with rosewood b/s. If the type of wood makes such a difference, why wouldn't solid or laminate make a difference?
#22
Quote by rohash
...[ ]....I've wondered about this myself and I've read both sides of the argument. It makes sense to me that the back is almost always pressed up against your body so it doesn't resonate much sound. However, how come there is a very noticable difference in sound between the materials B/S are made of? A solid spruce top with mahogany b/s(laminated or not) sounds much different than a solid spruce top with rosewood b/s. If the type of wood makes such a difference, why wouldn't solid or laminate make a difference?
Well, the center lamination of a laminated back or side isn't normally the same wood as the facing sides. So, a laminated rosewood back would be, 1st ply, rosewood, 2nd ply (God knows what tree died), 3rd ply, rosewood again.

I'm fairly sure the back contributes more to the overall sound than the sides. Laminated wood is, by its nature, less resonant. So, a solid wood back would contribute to the sustain of the instrument. (IMHO), the surface of any wood imparts its sound to its sonic reflection. So, a laminated rosewood back, would sound like rosewood, but lack some overtones and sustain.

So, my version of the "truth" goes like this, the solid top is the biggest contributor to the overall sound, the solid back next, and last the sides of the guitar. After all, the sides are the most rigid component.

As a side note both solid and plywood, are too resonant for the average home speaker enclosure. Particle board, standard or MDF, is called for. However, while the cabinets normally need some internal fiberglass to dampen them, if you put too much in, you can kill the mid range.
Last edited by Captaincranky at Oct 31, 2014,
#23
I'm bumping this because the last time around I didn't pull the trigger and some of the guitars recommended don't seem to be available.

For those that have already helped, would you happen to have any more leads on the requirements from before? Thanks
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
#24
Bump. As mentioned, some of the links are now broken and some help on where to get current renditions would be very helpful
Quote by EndTheRapture51
Anyway I have technically statutory raped #nice

Quote by EndThecRinge51
once a girl and i promised to never leave each other

since that promise was broken

i dont make promises any more
#26
since you're looking for a wider nut and are on a budget, can you go used? there's a lot of used guitars here in los angeles. you might want to try some out at mccabe's - i haven't been there in a while, but they used to always have some recording kings, although which they had in stock was pretty variable.

you might want to try out the blueridge BR-341/361. they often have one or the other at mccabe's, and while i realize you want a bigger guitar, your budget and other requirements just aren't going to come together. the blueridge parlors sound bigger than most smaller guitars in their price range, and you can get one new for just over your price range. mccabe's used to price match for a while - if they still do, http://www.maurysmusic.com/inc/sdetail/blueridge_br_341/35915/53486 i sold mine for about half of that price, so maybe you can find one used.

the eastman parlors cost more, although they have a beefier neck. if you try one in person and like it, you may be lucky and find one used.

the list Tony Done linked to is mostly hard to find or well above your price range - the washburn sounds tinny to me and has a very sharp v neck. that being said, you could go to truetone music in santa monica, just west of lincoln on santa monica blvd. their prices are all over the map, but they have some really hard to find used guitars there.
Quote by Skeet UK
I just looked in my Oxford English Dictionary and under "Acoustic Guitar", there was your Avatar and an email address!