#1
Hello friends !

I should explain my situation first : there is a loose contact with the internal sound card of my pc so I have to replace it with an external one so I can hear properly and also experience better listening of FLAC files and music in general. So no doubt about buying an external sound card.

The second purpose of such a device is to be able to record a guitar by plugging it to the "Hi-z" or "instrument" input of the audio interface and play on a virtual guitar amps setup and record it via a "DAW".

Since I didn't want to do anything else than listening to music and recording my guitar, I already ordered (but I can refuse the delivery and change my order) this audio interface : Line 6 POD Studio GX


However, I realised this audio interface will not be enough for my use because of two reasons :
  • I might experience delay and latency when playing "live" while recording at the same time
  • I like the tone of my current guitar amp so I would like to record its "flavor" silently (I can't do any noise on my appartment + I don't have a mic + Ambient noise would disturb me)


So I did my research, and since my guitar amp has a recording out/headphone output
(my amp is a roland cube 20x :
),
there is a way to connect this line level source output to a line level target input.

Question : is it possible/effective to connect the recording out/headphone (low impedance) output to the Hi-Z/instrument (high impedance) input of the GX audio interface ? I read I could hear a hiss because of that impedance ratio, is that true ?

Thus, I looked for an audio interface with line level inputs, which is the case of this audio interface : Line 6 POD Studio UX1


Let's admit I have the UX1 audio interface. There would still be problems and drawbacks I want you to confirm :
  • "keep in mind that unless the "line out" has speaker emulation (and a good one, too!), you probably won't like the sound you'll get." My amp presumably doesn't have one.
  • "As for the speaker, it should always be connected (expecially if it's a tube amplifier) unless you wanna risk damaging the amp. Amplifier transformers need the correct load to work properly and within safe parameters." I don't get that part because when the recording out/headphone output is plugged, the amp speaker is muted so how do you keep the speaker connected ?
  • "Check the amplifier's manual and see what the output level is - the two standards are -10dBu and +4dBu" I'm not sure about this one since the information is hard to find, but I think my amp output is -10dBu and the audio interface input is +4dBu, would that be a no no ?
  • "Check if you have to switch between different output settings for headphones and recording - headphone outputs generally have filters on them to optimise the output for listening, not to mention the fact that the signal is amplified in order to drive the headphone speakers. Both of these features are unnecessary when recording direct and can have a detrimental effect on the recorded sound." I don't have any of these features on my amp, would I experience the referred detrimental effect ?
  • "You should never plug your amp's Speaker Out directly into your audio interface." If I get this straight, I should connect the amp output to a DI (for impedance reasons), then connect the DI to a dummy load (for load reasons) and a pre-amp (to boost the attenuated signal), then connect the pre-amp output to the audio interface ? Is this investment necessary to get this to work (DI + Dummy Load + Pre-amp + cabling) ?


I would like to use the Impulse Responses technology. I understand it is mostly paired with the use of a guitar amp, however can you use a virtual amp with IR and still get good results ? If I understand this well, the purpose of Impulse Responses is an advanced speaker simulation ?

Since I don't want to invest on a DI/Pre-amp/Dummy Load, should I forget about using my amp and just connect the guitar to the audio interface and use a DAW ?
In other words, should I keep my Line6 POD Studio GX order and use IR/DAW and forget about the UX1 because I would need to buy more devices to use the line in inputs properly ?

On an unrelated note, I would like to be able to listen to let's say a bass + drums track while playing on my guitar and record it, is that possible on a computer ?
(initially I would have used a Y converter on my amp to listen to what I'm playing on my headphone and plug the other output to the audio interface to record it, and also connect my audio interface output to my headphone with a Y connector so I would be able to listen to everything, would that have been possible ?)

Sorry for the long post.
I love you guys !
Last edited by pwkoizoie at Oct 28, 2014,
#2
That was painful to read, you should put the images in spoilers next time.

Also why are you explaining stuff to us?
I mean, if one didn't know that stuff he most likely wouldn't be able to properly answer you, don't ya think?

So...

If you connected a line out to a high z in, the in would hear nothing to next to nothing.

Using the cube wouldn't be a smart move - you could more easily achieve good sounds with good software amp sims without having to have that bulky thing around.
The cube also doesn't sound much good if ya ask me.

As for the speaker emulation, you could use software cab simulation.
Even better, you could use amp simulation AND cab simulation for max practicality.
And also for a better sound.

The point about the load is true for tube power amps, not for transistor ones.
You can power up and turn up the volume and make a transistor power amp work without a load and it will work just fine - transistor amps need a load that is minimum X ohm, with X varying from amp to amp but usually 2 or 4ohm, and no load means infinite ohm.
Also the fact that the power amp isn't receiving anything doesn't mean it's not powered up - it probably is, and it's probably not receiving any signal.

It's -10dBv and +4dBu.
Just work with the amp's output level and you'll be fine even if they are mismatched.

The thing about recording vs headphones output is bs.
There's a difference but it has nothing to do with what you reported and you don't need to worry about that.

The last point is all messed up
The cube doesn't have a speaker out, only a line out, which is fine to connect to whatever line input on whatever mixer or audio interface.
A speaker out is a power amp out, and you would connect that to a load.
A DI box brings impedance from very high to line and possibly balances the signal, and the out impedance from a power amp is around 4ohm - they don't have anything to do with each other, and you would connect a guitar to a DI box if you needed to connect it to a console without high z inputs.
A pre is for other stuff, mostly bringing very low strength signals to line level, and again has nothing to do with what you described.
Audio interfaces have pre's anyway so again, don't worry about that part.

You could use amp sims and cab sims and get better results than with your cube, yes.
An impulse response is the representation of how sound changes when passed through a signal chain, in this case a guitar speakers, and to date it's mostly used for reverbs.
Basically one sends a signal through a cab, records it with a mic, and the difference between the starting signal and the what the mic picked up is an impulse response.
Not particularly advanced.

While you wouldn't need any DI box/pre/load, you should forget about using your amp, yes.

You should get a good sounding interface in any case, **** line 6.
If you don't wanna spend any money stick to what you have.

Yes with a DAW you can program different parts and play over them.

I'm missing a point in that description: why would you need a y cable to connect the interface to the headphones?

Anyway, for directions head to the recording section of this forum and read the "introduction to recording" sticky and the amp sims sticky.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#3
Thank you for your answer ! Mua ! ^_^ (that's a kiss)

That was painful to read, you should put the images in spoilers next time.

Yep, sorry about that.

Also why are you explaining stuff to us?
I mean, if one didn't know that stuff he most likely wouldn't be able to properly answer you, don't ya think?

I am so you could tell me if I'm writing bs or not.

If you connected a line out to a high z in, the in would hear nothing to next to nothing.

Do you mean the sound would be very low or I would hear absolutely nothing ?

[...]

Your explanations were much clearer than what I had found so far, thank you.

You should get a good sounding interface in any case, **** line 6.

Is the GX considered good ? Is there a point upgrading to the UX1 or UX2 ? Will the sound be better ?

I'm missing a point in that description: why would you need a y cable to connect the interface to the headphones?

Say I want to simultaneously listen to two audio sources (drums track on computer output + my guitar amp output), the y cable would allow me to do that, wouldn't it ?
And if I wanted to record my amp output too I would need an other kind of y cable/converter (don't know the right name) to plug it to my audio interface and my headphone.
Since I won't use the amp, all of this is possible with the guitar and headphone connected to the audio interface only and I would mute/play/record what I want with the DAW, right ?

Anyway, for directions head to the recording section of this forum and read the "introduction to recording" sticky and the amp sims sticky.

Will do.
#4
Quote by pwkoizoie
Do you mean the sound would be very low or I would hear absolutely nothing ?
You may hear a veeery low signal, but most likely nothing.
Quote by pwkoizoie
Is the GX considered good ? Is there a point upgrading to the UX1 or UX2 ? Will the sound be better ?
No to everything.

Quote by pwkoizoie
Say I want to simultaneously listen to two audio sources (drums track on computer output + my guitar amp output), the y cable would allow me to do that, wouldn't it ?
And if I wanted to record my amp output too I would need an other kind of y cable/converter (don't know the right name) to plug it to my audio interface and my headphone.
Ow, yeah, got that.

You may use a y cable to split a signal, but using a y cable to sum two signals is something you don't wanna do - with low power stuff you'll only get a very low signal, and with high power equipment you'll fry stuff.
Quote by pwkoizoie
Since I won't use the amp, all of this is possible with the guitar and headphone connected to the audio interface only and I would mute/play/record what I want with the DAW, right ?
Yes.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.
#5
Quote by Spambot_2
If you connected a line out to a high z in, the in would hear nothing to next to nothing.
I have an issue with this statement. As in, it's not true. A line out is a fairly low impedance with generally higher levels than a typical guitar or guitar pedal high z input. It is far more than adequate to drive a typical high z input. The actual statement should read...

"if you connect a line out to a high z input then you should make sure to turn your levels down on the line out so that you don't overdrive the high z input".

Just the opposite of "the in would hear nothing or next to nothing".
#6
WRT latency the Line 6 Toneports (GuitarPort, Pod Studio) I've used in the past were pretty good about having low latency right out of the box.
#7
Quote by fly135
I have an issue with this statement. As in, it's not true.
Well just try it if you have the occasion TS, you'll not harm anything in any case.
Name's Luca.

Quote by OliOsbourne
I don't know anything about this topic, but I just clicked on this thread because of your username :O
Quote by Cajundaddy
Clue: amplifiers amplify so don't turn it on if you need quiet.
Quote by chrismendiola
I guess spambots are now capable of reading minds.