#1
Hi all!

The other day I found out about Bugera's all tube amps (the 333 XL INFINIUM specifically) and was suprised to find that the 333 cost only £369 from GAK. Why is this? I mean, the amps are all tube from what I have read. Maybe it's the build quality, or where they were made. I think Bugera are ascociated with Behiringer and that the amps are actually copies of originals, but I don't exactly know which ones.

I play mostly death/thrash metal, such as Sepultura, Machine Head, Death and Exhorder, so would these amps be any good for that type of music.

Thanks!
#2
They are made in China with semi-substandard parts. Low labor cost+low parts cost=cheap amp. I've seen it where bout half the time this thing blows up inside 2 months and the other half it lasts forever. I don't think they aren't associated with Behringer but check me on that. Mostly Bugera Copies Peavey amps. 333=XXX, 333XL=JSX, 6262=6505, 6260=5150, Tri Rec=Mesa Triple Recifier.
#3
They're great sounding amps (in terms of their wiring, they're mostly Peavey and Mesa clones), but the build quality of them is often terrible. They're super cheap because the components used to build them are junk and the amps are put together very cheaply overall with cheap labour.
Quote by TheStig1214
I don't think they aren't associated with Behringer but check me on that.

They are. Behringer owns the brand.
Quote by TheStig1214
6262=6505+/5150 II, 6260=6505/5150.

Fixed.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Oct 30, 2014,
#4
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
They're great sounding amps (in terms of their wiring, they're mostly Peavey and Mesa clones), but the build quality of them is often terrible. They're super cheap because the components used to build them are junk and the amps are put together very cheaply overall with cheap labour.

They are. Behringer owns the brand.

Fixed.


I stand corrected.
#5
Yeah, I've heard other sources say that the build quality is bad, yet Bugera mentioned a special component that allowed the tubes inside to live up to 20 times longer than usual.

Also, how versatile are these amps. Mostly metal, although I do clean passages such as This Love by Pantera and the intro to Beneath The Remains by Sepultura. Basically, I need I good clean sound, a Mark IV style hi-gain (distorted yet smooth, like Metallica's rythym sound) and a grittier hi-gain, more a 5150 or Warhead style like Machine Head's and Dimebag's. Maybe an AC/DC sytle crunch, but that's it.

Thanks!
#6
Quote by supertom1
Yeah, I've heard other sources say that the build quality is bad, yet Bugera mentioned a special component that allowed the tubes inside to live up to 20 times longer than usual.
QC is bad as hell, but they don't use components of quality much lower than their competitors.

The 20 times longer is mostly marketing.
In reality, the system stresses tubes a bit less and it allows you not to use matched tube sets.
Or at least it's supposed to.
I hear it has quite some reliability problems itself though
Quote by supertom1
Also, how versatile are these amps.
As much as their original counterparts.

For that stuff I'd get a 5150 III, maybe a JSX.

How much money do you wanna put in that again?
#7
Quote by supertom1
Yeah, I've heard other sources say that the build quality is bad, yet Bugera mentioned a special component that allowed the tubes inside to live up to 20 times longer than usual.

Also, how versatile are these amps. Mostly metal, although I do clean passages such as This Love by Pantera and the intro to Beneath The Remains by Sepultura. Basically, I need I good clean sound, a Mark IV style hi-gain (distorted yet smooth, like Metallica's rythym sound) and a grittier hi-gain, more a 5150 or Warhead style like Machine Head's and Dimebag's. Maybe an AC/DC sytle crunch, but that's it.

Thanks!


The Infinium is basically an auto bias. The amp constantly adjusts the current going to the power tubes for an optimal bias. I don't think it makes that much of a difference but whatever. When my buddy had a 333XL I actually really liked the clean channel. Tons of reverb. Then one day all the tubes failed, fuses blew and Bugera had to take it back. I think it would do what you want, but I'd still stay away.
#8
The components aren't the primary issue, the labor cost is what allows them to be built and sold inexpensively. I also suspect, but can't verify, that they are willing to accept a lower margin in an attempt to gain market share.

QC has been, and to some extent remains, an issue. But from a rational, statistical standpoint it's not nearly the issue some claim, nor was it ever.
#9
I have no problems with my 6262 Infininium, which is supposedly a Peavey clone. It had just one time blow a tube on me, replaced tube and worked fine again. It also fell from my cab one time against my wall and door and it's still in perfect working order. And all that for a little over 600 euro's for the head and cab together.
#10
The 333XL is a Peavey JSX clone and the 6262 is a Peavey 6505 clone. The 333XL has a better clean channel than the 6262, but the 6262 has a much more aggressive lead channel to better suit the EQ needs of modern metal. The 333XL is still plenty aggressive, especially with an OD pedal in front of it.
#12
they're cheaper on thomann. and thomann has a 3-year warranty.

not saying you should definitely get one- i'd be wary myself. As arby says, the jokes and bandwagoning possibly make it into more of an issue than it ever was (though the first batch definitely did go on fire ), and i've heard from some tech types on another forum that they're not actually built that badly (then again I think greg said they were constantly coming in for repair when he worked at sam ash, so ), but at the same as he said, there have been some issues.

that's a longwinded way of saying if i did get one, i'd try to get it as cheaply as possible, and with as long of a (free) warranty thrown in as possible. I.e. thomann. you'd need to get a UK kettle lead, though, but that should be fairly cheap.
#13
Labour savings are normally overstated. Just look at the US car industry, they publicly stated that labour costs only account for 10% of the cost of manufacturing. Blaming labour costs is simply a way to justify squeezing the local workers by turning them into a scapegoat. It's a factor, certainly, but don't be fooled into overestimating the size of that factor.
There are lots of reasons, a lot to do with government regulations and taxes. Labour is a quick, easy explanation that most people accept that plays into manufacturer's hands so that's the one that gets pushed hardest.
Lower quality parts is a huge factor too, arguably much larger. Being allowed to push the workers harder in shitty conditions due to practically no OH&S regulations is a big part as well. I have been told by several manufacturers that if you pay the Chinese factories more and don't demand unreasonably short lead times for manufacturing, the shit they make is as good as anywhere. Forcing the workers to work too fast and use sub-standard parts is where the real savings are made. Judging by the price of Behringer stuff in general I would have to conclude that their workers are driven like a pit pony and are using the cheapest parts possible. And that bears out when you look inside them.
#14
Bugera amps are cheap because that’s Behringer’s entire business model. If they charged the same prices as other companies people would just buy the originals.
#15
I have a v55 and it sounds pretty good. Ive upgraded a lot of the parts like the tubes and transformers and other stuff like that and it sounds much better than stock. From what ive played and people I know, about 1 in 15 will go out fairly soon but its an easy repair most of the time and for the price, theyre a great deal.
#16
I'd say if it is all you can afford, go for it. Odds are it will last just fine.
If you can afford a bit more, then check the used market for the originals.
#17
Buying a Bugera from a UK retailer is silly when Thomman is cheaper allround and sells the Jet Cities which IMO aren't going to break down and sound better than the 6262/6260/whatevertheirJSX clone is called.

Plus for a price of a Bugera on Thomman you can get a gig/rehersal ready rig for that much that isn't going to break down.

I know which one I'd prefer.

Also, Behringer stuff isn't that reliable. I've had things from them break before I opened the box!

Personally in your situation I'd go JCA 100 HDM/100W/22H, Harley Benton 2X12 and a Bad Monkey from Thomman.
#18
Quote by Fisheth24

Also, Behringer stuff isn't that reliable. I've had things from them break before I opened the box!


How did you know it was broken before you opened the box? Is that like Schroedinger's pedal?
#19
Bugera is great for stage pyrotechnics, if it lasts long enough to make it to the stage before it burns
#20
I confess that I snagged the Boogerah 1960 and 1990 when they were closed out for silly prices. I knew going in that the internet might be right/they might be throwaway gear. They continue to be used/abused by younger cousins. Very happy.
#21
Quote by Dave_Mc
How did you know it was broken before you opened the box? Is that like Schroedinger's pedal?


Well they didn't work when I opened the box that's for sure
#22
Quote by Ippon
I confess that I snagged the Boogerah 1960 and 1990 when they were closed out for silly prices. I knew going in that the internet might be right/they might be throwaway gear. They continue to be used/abused by younger cousins. Very happy.


What's the 1990/1960 like? I'm curious about getting one IF the reliability is sound!
#24
Quote by Fisheth24
What's the 1990/1960 like? I'm curious about getting one IF the reliability is sound!

1990 is like a JCM 900 while the 1960 is like a SL 59!
#25
^ yeah that's what i thought, though i haven't tried them

isn't the 1960 sort of like a hotrodded plexi? IIRC from reading the manual it has some mods or settings where it lets you cascade the preamp tubes etc. (plus has a PPIMV)...
#26
^ I think so, it was pretty gnarly, very nice. I may be biased but I thought the high Mids of the SLP is killer.
#27
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ yeah that's what i thought, though i haven't tried them

isn't the 1960 sort of like a hotrodded plexi? IIRC from reading the manual it has some mods or settings where it lets you cascade the preamp tubes etc. (plus has a PPIMV)...

The new 1960 infinium is like the RR plexi but the older, original 1960 was a straight plexi clone
#28
^ I didn't realise that, thanks. Now you mention it, I have a vague recollection of the early ones not having a master volume or something crazy like that.

Quote by Ippon
^ I think so, it was pretty gnarly, very nice. I may be biased but I thought the high Mids of the SLP is killer.


thanks. yeah the clips i've heard have been great. just not sure about the reliability (plus as I've said before, I have no room )
#29
Quote by Dave_Mc
^ I didn't realise that, thanks. Now you mention it, I have a vague recollection of the early ones not having a master volume or something crazy like that.


thanks. yeah the clips i've heard have been great. just not sure about the reliability (plus as I've said before, I have no room )

JesseMary&Joe ... you can stack heads 6 high.
#31
^ lol

Quote by Ippon
JesseMary&Joe ... you can stack heads 6 high.


yeah i know that but i'm always scared of them falling over
#32
hi all. 1st post. In the past 5 days I watched over 50-60 videos on youtube about the bugera 333xl infinium because I want to buy one, videos made by owners. I have seen only one guy saying the transformer on his bugera was faulty and he had to replace it but the rest of the videos/owners had to say only good things about the amps. Ive also seen really skilled guitar players using and recommending this amp. To me if a high level guitar player says this amp is great, I believe him https://youtu.be/ko44j6l03Sw?t=5m25s

Reading 2 pages of replies on this thread, I see mostly negative thoughts about bugera amps but how many of them are actually owners of bugera amps ?
Last edited by roofcrash at Dec 25, 2015,
#33
I don't have to own a Pinto to know that it's a pile of shit.

You necrobumped this thread to say this?
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band
#34
Quote by Fisheth24
Well they didn't work when I opened the box that's for sure


It was the act of opening the box that defined whether it would work or not. If you had just left it in the box, you wouldn't have had a problem with it.

FWIW, my mate stopped stocking Behringer pedals because of QC problems and the time it was taking to fix them. He reckons they even had parts missing. OTOH I have a 2-knob Behringer Dynacomp style compressor that works very well, nasty cheap pots and sockets though. Based on what I've seen of Behringer, I wouldn't buy a Bugera.
#35
Quote by roofcrash
*snip*

I used to own a 6262 and I sold it for a reason. The transformer was bad and I sold it for almost what I paid for it to some gullible sucker.
Roses are red
Violets are blue
Omae wa mou
Shindeiru



Quote by Axelfox
Reeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Dec 25, 2015,
#37
Nobody to my knowledge has ever complained about the tone of Bugeras - that isn't the issue at all.
Gilchrist custom
Yamaha SBG500
Telecasters
Randall RM100 & RM20
Marshall JTM45 clone
Marshall JCM900 4102 (modded)
Marshall 18W clone
Fender 5F1 Champ clone
Atomic Amplifire
Marshall 1960A
Boss GT-100


Cathbard Amplification
My band