Poll: What amp should I get?
Poll Options
View poll results: What amp should I get?
Bugera TriRec with Carvin GX412
1 7%
Laney Ironheart with matching cab
9 60%
Other (please specify)
6 40%
Voters: 15.
Page 1 of 2
#1
Hello guys! So, I have a dilemma with picking between a Laney Ironheart and a Bugera TriRec Infinium. The thing is, this question is more about image & perception vs actual sound, rather than just picking what sounds best. If it were, I would have already made up my mind and got the TriRec. But it is not, hence why I am asking this.

Firstly, I do not buy all the reliability issues stories of Bugera. From a general audio equipment perspective, all tube guitar amps are fairly crude, fragile and unreliable, and I can see that the early models did really smoke, but the newer Infinium line has been going strong, and either way, if your amp fails within the three years, you get a replacement with bonus spare tubes as per the warranty, and a second time, and a third, until you do find the one amp that will stay with you, if you have to. However, these early reliability issues, along with the fact that Bugera amps are mostly blatant rip - offs, cause people to flame (no pun intended) them like they are nothing. I am thinking that whenever anyone who knows what they are looking at, will look at a Bugera amp, if they know who they are and what they do, will instantaneously try and search for faults within my tone, playing, etc (which are always there). Thus, getting the Bugera, which has the better sound and features in my opinion, I will have to constantly defend my gear choice and tone. Frankly, that concept is one I am not very keen on, so to say. An example of this were two threads on UltimateMetal and MyLesPaul. One was asking for amp suggestions and the person who suggested a Bugera got flamed, and the other was an opinion thread on Bugera, and once again, the people who were pro - Bugera got flamed. However, in my eyes, this is the ONLY fault with the Bugera, the tone of which I like more than the real thing (see the YouTube video by Ryan Bruce).

Onto the Ironheart: I honestly think it is a great amp in general, ESPECIALLY considering that it costs about $300 less than the Bugera here in Australia (I am led to believe the price difference is reversed everywhere else). The thing is, there is a review on here for it, and one guy said he did not like it, and got flamed, and another guy said that Laney just sucks in general (hey, I reckon everyone should be entitled to their own opinion in the guitar world, else it would be boring if we all played the same music on the same equipment), and he got flamed too. So if I go with the Laney, whoever disses my sound or gear choice, will get dissed in return by someone other than me. A subtle subconscious image buff, if you will. Although, I think we can agree that it is nowhere near as versatile as the Bugera (I play borderline hard rock/metal mostly, but that does not mean I do not play anything else), as the Laney is VOICED for metal, including its crunch and clean sounds. The push - pull pots really do seem like a really good feature, though.

As far as the cabs: if I get the Laney, I want either one or two of the matching cabs, have not decided yet. With the Bugera, I am thinking Carvin GX412s (metal grille, Celestion V-Types, BADASS).

So with ALL THAT said: what do you think? Should I dish out $500 - $600 more on the Bugera and Carvin cabs, hoping for the best, or should I just get the Laney with the matching cab(s), and look better in other people's eyes? To be honest, if the two amps were EQ'd to mimic each other, I reckon it would be fairly hard to accurately distinguish them in a blind test. But as I said, including the money, I think the Bugera is just better, and by quite a bit too.

Why can't I get both? Physical space...

Lastly, what else I have already considered (I prefer buying from Australian retailers to support the local economy):

Triple Rectifier ($4400 for the Multi - Watt) - I would not have minded paying the premium price if everyone else did too. But, they are around $2000 in The States, so...

Carvin V3 ($1700) - I would rather the tube rectifier of the Bugera for the playing feel. The Master section features seem pointless to me, as do the multiple effects loops. Otherwise, I honestly cannot tell the difference in sound between this, the Bugera, and the real Recto.

Peavey 6505+ ($1400) - Great amp, but I just cannot bring myself to love the sound.

Blackstar Series One 200 ($2200) - Amazing amp with amazing tone. People only specifically bag on the HT range, so that was that, but it has a Gus G signature version, which is more expensive implying it is better, but I have a thing against signature gear for my own sound. This is another thing deterring me from the Laney, as the new Tony Iommi signature is said to be based off of it.

P.S. Genuinely sorry for the wall of text.
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 1, 2014,
#2
Quote by 2Crosser
Thus, getting the Bugera, which has the better sound and features in my opinion... But as I said, including the money, I think the Bugera is just better, and by quite a bit too.

Well, get that then. If you think it's better and you think it won't have technical issues, just get it. It really doesn't matter what the internet thinks, because they don't make the decision in the end. You'll be the one laughing at the end of the day if your amp doesn't blow up, so get it.
#3
i have great luck with my bugera v22 but ive heard the V line are the best for reliability. in the states i would never consider bugera in your price range but given your circumstances, why not. bugera has had many years to get the stuff together.

i think they offer a lot for the price. i think they are the worst quality on your list. i think most would find laney is better quality gear. doesnt mean it sounds better to you.
#4
^Yeah, I was told that too. But see, it is not about MY perception, it is about other people's perception of ME, my gear, and my sound.
EDIT: most stuff down here is more expensive, apart from the Japanese made stuff. The Bugera is $1600 (only one shop that sells it with warranty in the whole of OZ, what gives?) and the Laney together with the matching cab is ~ $2000.

Quote by bassmastamitch
Well, get that then. If you think it's better and you think it won't have technical issues, just get it. It really doesn't matter what the internet thinks, because they don't make the decision in the end. You'll be the one laughing at the end of the day if your amp doesn't blow up, so get it.


I will be laughing, but people will be picking away at all the issues and flame me as one of the 'pro - Bugera' people. It is just that I do not want people scrutinizing my gear based on bias. See, this one is just as much about image as it is about the sound, because I can face it, I will NEVER have any need for an even a half stack. A FULL stack with a Bugera on top flashes the brand name into people's faces, know what I mean?

EDIT 2: I reckon I just opened Pandora's Box...
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#5
Why are you so afraid of potentially standing up for something you like and have good experiences with? Those would be your experiences, and they would speak for themselves. Who cares what the internet has to say? Just remove the faceplate if it's such a huge deal.

I own and use Behringer studio monitors and I think they're great. I don't care if that "brings down my rep" in someone else's eyes.
#6
Quote by bassmastamitch
Why are you so afraid of potentially standing up for something you like and have good experiences with? Those would be your experiences, and they would speak for themselves. Who cares what the internet has to say? Just remove the faceplate if it's such a huge deal.

I own and use Behringer studio monitors and I think they're great. I don't care if that "brings down my rep" in someone else's eyes.


THERE you go. In my case, it is a stack amp, I do care if it brings my reputation down. And it is not that I am afraid of it, but it is that I have a fairly bad temper, and when someone won't believe that I consciously made the choice of getting a Bugera or that I genuinely like the tone more than 'the real thing', I will do much more than just damage my reputation by punching someone in the face at a gig

Just a single example, but in all seriousness, if my whole rig is not perceived to be at least 'good' it will deteriorate my playing, as I am not a person that can just focus on one thing. There are not many variables to consider here, just the single most unpredictable one: people

EDIT: Also, THERE you go, people using Behringer stuff and its perfectly fine. ;/
#7
Im not the biggest fan of the bugera trirec sound, but I am a massive fan of the Laney IRT series. If you want the Bugera then go for it, just know that they have a reputation for not being reliable all of the time. The IRT though, thats a great amp all around. Its also got the variwatts feature which makes the amp stand out for home and gigging use.
#8
Keep your amp sitting behind your cabinet at shows, then. If an audience member likes the tone, they'll ask about it and might be pleasantly surprised by the answer.
#9
^Now THAT is being cowardly. But I bet you, guitarists being the snobs that they are, as soon as I do show them, it will be like ‘THAT'S why I thought (whatever was bad)'. Reputation and cowardice goes hand in hand...

Quote by bustapr
Im not the biggest fan of the bugera trirec sound, but I am a massive fan of the Laney IRT series. If you want the Bugera then go for it, just know that they have a reputation for not being reliable all of the time. The IRT though, thats a great amp all around. Its also got the variwatts feature which makes the amp stand out for home and gigging use.


As I already said, the TriRec sounds better to me, its just about image. EDIT: The TriRec also has a Varipower knob.
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#10
WTF. Seriously? The vast majority of folks at a gig won't know who or Bugera is. If you like that amp, and you aren't bothered by the reliability issues, get it. **** those other people dude. At the end of the day if they are so petty to dismiss an entire gig based on the gear you use then I wouldn't really give a shit what they thought.

I get that you are worried about getting angry and laying someone out, but if that's the case just don't talk to those people, if they are rude enough to heckle you during the set go ahead and punch them. You can't let your decisions be determined on what other people are going to say, their will be someone who has something negative to say about literally ANY product. I've heard people talk trash about Mesa, Marshall, Engl, Peavey... There is always an asshole ready to spew off at the mouth.
#11
If it is all about Image, I've been doing it wrong for years then. I prefer something reliable that I like not what the audience likes.

I would go with the Laney for the reliability. What good is an amp that stops working when you need it? I know gear is more expensive in OZ, but I'll fly there myself and drop kick you if you spend $1600 on a Bugera. That is just stupid x2

Where is Cath, he said there is a shop with some RM100's still in stock for really cheap in OZ, that would be the amp to get.
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Nov 2, 2014,
#12
^ HEY MATE OWZITGOIN ITS BEEN AAAGEEES!!! No but seriously, you just say you have been wrong if it IS about image (implying Bugera), then say you will kick me if I DO get it. I mean, w0t? But seriously, there you go. I got a THR10X (Yamaha), and now it is time to upgrade to a good tube amp (like, right now I have $600, but saving $1400 more should take me, what, about another 6 months, maybe less?), so I have been doing as per what you said way back when... upgrading amp. I do not know if I should get a 212 combo first though. If anything, it would HAVE TO be a Blackstar HT Metal 60 (LOVE that tone), but it is $1400... so it might just be worth it getting the stack straight off the bat.

I reckon them Agiles you guys got over there in America are REALLY nice, and I mean, I might just try and order a semi - custom into debt and while that is getting built I get the amp. Just thoughts though.

Although, Mitch and Captain might just be right. I mean, the Bugera has WAY more features that I will actually put to good use, but I seriously do not look forward to getting drop kicked...

BAH you just made my decision even harder! XD Thanks for the input though.

EDIT: Captain, (AYE AYE) I CAN understand Mesa (overpricedness) or Marshall (more of a cliche than an amp TBH, great sound though), but ENGL? Peavey? REALLY?
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#13
Your worried about an amp based on what other people think? Buy it for the sound man.

Also, why is putting the amp behind the cab cowardly? Hiding yourself behind the cab might be, but not a piece of electronic equipment.

Also, the temper thing, if your in a band you really need to get use to people saying bad things, it comes with the territory. If you punch anyone who says anything bad, the band won't go very far, and you could end up somewhere you really don't want to be (jail).

This isn't meant in a bad way by the way, its just how it is.
Last edited by conanwarrior at Nov 2, 2014,
#14
Quote by conanwarrior
Your worried about an amp based on what other people think? Buy it for the sound man.

Also, why is putting the amp behind the cab cowardly? Hiding yourself behind the cab might be, but not a piece of electronic equipment.

Also, the temper thing, if your in a band you really need to get use to people saying bad things, it comes with the territory. If you punch anyone who says anything bad, the band won't go very far.


Oh dude, that was like, a half - joke. I did say 'But seriously' afterwards. I am a team player through and through, you should not worry about that. But yeah see, two posts above you, the first guy I made friends with on UG is telling me to go Laney, as are the people in the poll. And yeah, the amp - behind - cab thing was half a (sarcastic) joke both from the person suggesting and my reply. Sorry for the confusion. I mean, looking at it now, I did ask a pretty ridiculous question, but as you can see, the answers are divided, and NOT into the favour of the Bugera...
#15
I would buy the trirec over the ironheart in an instant. I really like bugera stuff. And thats coming from a guy whose bugera 333 broke down on him, had it repaired, and its been great ever since.
#16
Im telling you to look for a Randall RM100, there is a shop in OZ selling them for something like $1200AUD (which is stupid cheap) they have interchangeable preamp modules which can be upgraded for way less than a new amp if/when your tastes change.

There is even a recto module that comes stock in certain RM100's


Agiles are decent guitars, but ordering from another country kinda defeats the savings, but their semi custom stuff maybe worth it if you can't find those options on another guitar
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Nov 2, 2014,
#17
^Rob, WHAT IS THAT INGENIOUS THING AND WHERE CAN I HAVE IT FOR $1200?! That is STUPIDLY amazing! WHY have I not heard about this yet? Is this like, out of production, is so, WHY?! HOLY SHIT! GAS ATTACK I WANTZZZ NOWWW

No but seriously, that thing seems badass. If you can find the thing for the price, I WILL get it, I promise. And get it, like, in February at the latest. A quick Google search (which normally yields me the stores selling it and I look for the .com.au ending) gave me nothing, and only the Kirk Hammet head is on Ebay used in fair condition for $2000. The 212 combo is like $1400. No, but seriously, why hasn't anyone told me about this?..

Quote by Watterboy
I would buy the trirec over the ironheart in an instant. I really like bugera stuff. And thats coming from a guy whose bugera 333 broke down on him, had it repaired, and its been great ever since.


Thank you for that, greatly appreciated. Once again though, Rob right here is not very keen on seeing me do that.
#19
Holy shit! No, I just read the specs and features... this CAN'T be real! That is like more options than a Roadking for a 1/4 of the price! Kick it up to a 1/3rd and you have like, my dream rig considering three modules cost me $500 each and I sell mine for $200 each (given that I do not like them). Looking at all this, it is too good to be true. Is the reliability alright? Tone and affordability is hands down, so the last thing of the holy trinity to give up is reliability.

And as far as the Agiles go, it is all the Kahler bridge, I dig that.

I was looking on MelBand (already see people swearing by it), and they say it was designed by Egnater, and that Egnater have their own version with 2 - channel modules. What is that called?
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#20
I'm not sure which store in OZ is selling them, Cathbard was talking about it last week, he is getting a RM20 combo from the store.

Yes they are discontinued (for 2-3 years now actually) but there are stores still with NOS models. There are a few companys that make or mod custom modules, like these www.salvationmods.com
www.jadedfaithmods.com

I want the RM50 and this module
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6FRhKbjJh4&list=PLXf9h6yX8C2FUzm1tFRBr32WpH5jZh21Y&feature=player_detailpage
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Nov 2, 2014,
#21
MAN that one you sent is PURE FUNKY! I will never get why they are discontinued... but would it happen to be Belfield Music? They are the only ones I found who have the RM20 combo, but no 100...

I will message Cathbard then, I guess. $1200 is too good of a deal to pass up.
#22
I'm not sure if that is the store or not. The RM100 2x12 is what Cath has and he said it is perfectly fine gigging (and he is loud)

You could look for a used Mesa Single recto also.
Last edited by Robbgnarly at Nov 2, 2014,
#23
Nah, not into Mesa stuff (they discriminate against us ). But yeah, the 212 is $1300... tempting, but I was not really looking for a combo, unless of course I do end up getting one. And yes, Belfield Music is the store, they are the only ones in OZ to stock Randall MTS in new condition. I really need to message Cathbard, then.

EDIT: Messaged Cathbard, do not expect a reply for about 18 or so hours maybe. Thanks dude.
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#24
No worries, but seriously don't get the Bugera

You can always run a 4x12 or 2x12 cab with the combo or build a headshell for it if you want to go the head/cab route
#25
you could try messaginf bellfield music to see if they stock it.
#26
http://www.belfieldmusic.com.au/catalogsearch/result/?q=randall+rm100


I use one of these, myself. Friggin awesome amp, man. And at that price (I think delivery is free but I'd check) you can't go wrong.


Edit: I used to use a 6x12 rig. Now I just use the Randall 2x12 combo on an angled amp stand. It is a closed back cab so you don't get that loose open backed sound that most combos do. It rocks, man.
It's a heavy mofo though (40kg) so buy a decent trolley to move it around. It's typical American made fare - big and heavy.

The modules I have are the Randall Tweed (Bassman), Salvation Mash-all+ (Marshall Plexi/JCM800/JVM red) and Markus (Mesa Mark 2) and Jaded Faith SL-OD100 (Soldano SLO) modules.
Feel free to ask me any questions about it.
Last edited by Cathbard at Nov 2, 2014,
#27
Yeah, combo as I thought. I do not know, I am still young, I reckon I can still haul a half stack. The big question is whether I should... But still, that thing is 100% awesome. Wonder why they were discontinued with all them custom module shops going on...

Cath, I did my homework and I saw threads where you both recommended the Ironheart, and were against the Bugera. Could you please input on the problem? Or do you think I should just say ‘**** it' and get the combo. I want to custom order modules, maybe fromthe guys Rob mentioned. Do they ship to us, or is there an alternative for us down here in VIC?
#28
Bugera is made by Behringer - that's all you need to know to stay away from it.
I alternate between an RM100 half stack and my RM100 combo. Both rigs running the same speakers - Celestion G12T75. In some ways I prefer the combo because I can point it at my head better. But soundwise there's really nothing in it.
And as for lugging it around, the half stack is actually marginally easier. The combo is really a two man lift. That's how I treat it. I get somebody to help me load it onto the trolley and then wheel it everywhere it has to go.
At $1200, I definitely say, "**** it, get the combo." It really is a good thing.
I played a gig the other day using my RM100 combo following a band where the guitarist had an Ironheart half stack. Everybody complimented me on my tone. Quite frankly, I blew him out of the water.

I just ordered an RM20 from Belfield and it is free delivery. The GT-100 I bought off them was free too. I'd check though because the RM100 is ****ing big. I'm in Victoria too btw.
#29
So, if the other guitarist was playing an Ironheart, can I safely assume you guys play hard rock and metal kind of stuff (it is kind of a metal amp, although versatile)? Also, how are the modules and where do I get them/try them?
#31
I'm playing punk. The other band was grunge/punk. But I have used my Randall for Rock many, many times.

An RM can do anything, it's all down to what modules you put in it.
The clips on the Salvation site and the Jaded Faith are pretty accurate, well, they are for the ones I've bought.
Most of the Randall modules are pretty true to what they are supposed to be. If you get the amp with the modules you want most you'll be pretty set. The Salvation and Jaded Faith ones are better, but they cost more. They're more of a boutique thing. But that's the beauty of the RM series. You can buy the modules you want over time as you can afford them or your tastes change. Change styles, buy a new module. No need to buy a whole new amp.

The RM100 power amp is brilliant too. You can run almost any octal power tube that takes your fancy and you don't need to buy matched sets because each tube has its own bias adjuster and probe point. They're so easy to bias that a child could do it. You do it all from the back panel with just a multimeter and a screwdriver.
#32
Can I put KT150s in it?.. Pretty please? So do the boutique guys ship down here? The Salvation Recto is like my dream channel. Also, how is the footswitch?
#33
Quote by 2Crosser
Can I put KT150s in it?.. Pretty please? So do the boutique guys ship down here? The Salvation Recto is like my dream channel. Also, how is the footswitch?

No 6L6 or EL34 tube types only

Yes jadedfaith and Salvation both ship world wide, how do you think Cath bought his
#34
KT150's may be pushing it but the boys over on the Randall forum could probably tell you. I have heard of people running KT88's. Not a tube that Randall themselves recommend for it but people do seem to be doing it.
They come stock with JJ E34L tubes and they do sound very, very good in it.

The footswitch is a small MIDI controller which is why they cost so much. You have to use MIDI to switch channels, not a normal footswitch. I was using an old Boss FC-50 I scored on ebay for $40 with great success. Now I use the GT-100. Well, with my punk band I don't switch channels at all, I just run the SLO module and a Timmy.
Very easy to program. You send the MIDI data (ie hit the switch) and then hold the channel switch on the front panel of the amp for 5 secs after you select the channel.


Rob. You can run lots more than those. You just have to set the bias accordingly. The manual says 6L6, 5881, EL34, E34L and 6550 but that's just what they give the bias currents for. So obviously KT66's would be on the menu too.
You can even run 6V6 (well, JJ's anyway because the plate voltage is pretty high) as well if you want. And as I said, there are threads over on the Randall forum where I've seen them arguing about how to set the bias for KT88's. These are people actually doing it.
Last edited by Cathbard at Nov 2, 2014,
#35
I was wondering why! Are there enough switches on the supplied one? That makes me think, the modules you buy are effectively separate preamps, right? Do they run 12AX7s? And yeah I gotta check the Randallforums too, then. Also, from the llimitedtube amps I tried, JJs are my favourite so far, or maybe EH.

EDIT: I need a detailed explanation of how one would buy/ship them custom modules. I swear, layman terms please.
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#37
I bought mine directly from the maker from their site. That's Salvation and Jaded Faith. Very helpful guys. I told Anthony at Salvation Mods what I wanted out of the Markus and he gave me exactly what I wanted. He's the man that built all Billy Corgin's modules. He uses two RM4 racks these days.
Last edited by Cathbard at Nov 2, 2014,
#38
So looking on their sites, there are like options for just the upgrade and WITH module. There is also a list of donor modules. So, do I like ship my module to them and then they ship the upgraded one back? Or do they upgrade mine and ship it back? Will it have the custom fancy front plate, or is that just the website representation? Also, I reckon JJ EL34s and 6L6s mixed will do the trick for me, if not KTs. The metal gain ***** part of me is wondering: what module has the most 12AX7s in it cascading? How many can you fit into a single module?

So do you guys know anything about the two - channel Egnater modules? Will they work in this? Mike himself said that the parts are identical, so that made me wonder...

EDIT: is the rectifier valve in the amp? Is there any way to at least emulate a tube one, apart from the Salvation Recto module? About that too, how much gain does it have? Could I play modern br00tz with it?

I take that back. That sounds amazing, the demo on the Slavation website. One of the ones that Belfield is selling has the Dreadplate (the Recto I go on about). The other two are PLX and 1086. 1086 is another high - gain, which I do not really need. How about the Plexi, can that do cleans? Because I would think it sure as hell does the classic crunch.

Yup, I am sold. I will get the one that comes with the Plexi and Dreadplate, hoping they do have the fancy front, and then sell the 1086 for the Jade Superclean. So, how do I run this combo through an additional 412? Also, can I get a metal grille for it? I like the looks more, but will it change the sound?
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
#39
Yes, if you give them a donor module it comes back with the fancy front panel as displayed on the site. My Markus started out as a Randall Brown module and now it looks like this:



The one on the right, of course.

All the modules have two 12AX7's on board. There are common valves on the main board as well, so two isn't all that are in play. V1 is common, for example. What changes on the module is the gain structure. So with just the two 12AX7's they can get everything from Lonestar cleans all the way up to Recto or Diezel levels of gain. There's a lot more to gain structure than just the number of tubes. A LOT more.

The rectifier is not on the modules, it's on the main board and it's solid state. Don't overthink that though. For a modern tone, SS is what you actually want. A tube rectifier is more for old school blues and even then, it isn't that big of a factor. Switchable recitifiers is largely a gimick.

The plexi module does really nice cleans if you keep the gain knob down. Very nice indeed.
#40
So yeah, I think the stock PLX is good enough for those rare times when I need that midway crunch, the 1086 is useless to me in the presence of the Dreadplate, therefore I think I will sell that and buy a dual - modded Super Clean. About that, do the foglifters actually do anything, or is that a gimmick too? Should I get that on all modules?

And I tried some epic amps like a Blackstar Series One 200, an Orange Thunderverb 200, and a Triple Rectifier, and something DID change between the rectifiers. I liked the Blackstar and the Recto on valve more than the Orange and the Recto on diodes. It could just be a prejudice.

EDIT: also, metal grille? Does that change sound, and can I get one? What about a 412 cab? Will that give a sonic difference or just make it plain louder? And if it DOES make a difference, what cab? If all a cab does is make it louder (excluding the speaker mix), then I will get this first as my combo, and then the Ironheart down the road. I mean, THR stands for 'third', as Yamaha said, 'the bedroom amp, the practice/gig combo, the concert stack'.
Last edited by 2Crosser at Nov 2, 2014,
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