#1
http://www.cnn.com/2014/11/02/health/oregon-brittany-maynard/

Don't know if any of you followed this woman or her story, but I figured it'd make interesting discussion.

For those too lazy to read the article, she close to end her own life via a legal euthanasia statute passed in Oregon.

Do you support euthanasia for no hope patients? Do you just outright support suicide? Why or why not?
#2
I fully support assisted suicide, anyone against it is fvcking idiotic
#3
Oh yeah, I heard about this this morning.

Not supporting it is just dumb. Like, what do they want her to do, pretend to be happy knowing she's gonna die soon? Just let her end it the way she wants it to end. If suicide really is some kind of sin, I'm sure Jesus would understand in this case.
#5
I'm all for physicians euthanising terminal patients.

EDIT: Needless to say (maybe not, but just in case), with the patients' consent.
Last edited by chrismendiola at Nov 3, 2014,
#7
I used to be a lot more for it than I am now. I'm still for it I guess, but I've heard some compelling arguments against it from quite a few psychologists and doctors. There's a reason why most doctors won't do the procedure.
#8
I'd definitely want someone to kill me if I were to lose my mind. Alzheimer's and dementia and the like are the things that terrify me the most in the world.

I'd probably want the same thing if I had ALS, Huntington's, or some type of awful cancer or something.
#9
Oh God, ever since I took psych of aging dementia has become a huge long term fear of mine.
#10
Quote by caeser1156
I used to be a lot more for it than I am now. I'm still for it I guess, but I've heard some compelling arguments against it from quite a few psychologists and doctors. There's a reason why most doctors won't do the procedure.

interested in seeing what these arguments are from the psychological standpoint. Cause logic says "their life their death" but if psychology says stuff about it I'm interested.

I'm for it, although I have reservations that are difficult to express about it.
#12
I definitely support it for people in her situation. Anyone who can't understand her decision doesn't have clear outlook on life, imo.


That being said, I definitely think there are situations where it wouldn't be the right choice. At least not until other options have been exhausted.
#13
Quote by Baby Joel
interested in seeing what these arguments are from the psychological standpoint. Cause logic says "their life their death" but if psychology says stuff about it I'm interested.

I'm for it, although I have reservations that are difficult to express about it.

To sum it up really briefly its basically that the depression you go through when terminally ill is great enough to make a serious decision like this practically impossible to rationally make. So it boils down to an ethical standpoint of whether or not you think it's ok to still let people kill themselves even though they technically can't consent.

Then the doctors usually tack on that when a patient is found to be terminal they're typically treated pretty well in a way that avoids pain and suffering. They don't actually try to prolong the life of terminal patients, they just try to make it as comfortable as possible for the time they have left.

So just food for thought really. It's always nice to hear opposing opinions.
#14
I support it, but I'd be very nervous about the idea that insurance companies could go "your illness is terminal and your treatment would be expensive, we're only going to cover euthanasia. "

Obviously that's a slippery slope argument, but I'm lying if it's not a concern of mine.
#15
That was so sad.

In terms of euthanasia as a medical "approved" procedure, then it shouldn't be banned. But in these cases the medic center should give a free chat with certified psychologists that deal with this kind of stuff, and have the most of friends and family present for support.
You want to make sure that the person who decides to take his own life actually wants it, and is not trying to get it because of some hidden problem he has which could be worked on. The support of friends and family is imperative here, since the person would be the most vulnerable and need support. Without this kind of support, the feelings/mood of that person may change, for instance into depression, which would heavily alter the way that person views his own suicide.
Those are the kind of situations we should be preventing, and having doctors help the patient to recover.

But there are times where the patient is fully conscious about his decision, and you can't really force him to not do what he wants. It's his/her body, and his ultimate decision. But this is a serious matter that should be treated seriously by doctors.
#16
Quote by caeser1156
To sum it up really briefly its basically that the depression you go through when terminally ill is great enough to make a serious decision like this practically impossible to rationally make. So it boils down to an ethical standpoint of whether or not you think it's ok to still let people kill themselves even though they technically can't consent.

Then the doctors usually tack on that when a patient is found to be terminal they're typically treated pretty well in a way that avoids pain and suffering. They don't actually try to prolong the life of terminal patients, they just try to make it as comfortable as possible for the time they have left.

So just food for thought really. It's always nice to hear opposing opinions.

interesting stuff. this is why i like you.
#17
Quote by caeser1156
To sum it up really briefly its basically that the depression you go through when terminally ill is great enough to make a serious decision like this practically impossible to rationally make. So it boils down to an ethical standpoint of whether or not you think it's ok to still let people kill themselves even though they technically can't consent.

Then the doctors usually tack on that when a patient is found to be terminal they're typically treated pretty well in a way that avoids pain and suffering. They don't actually try to prolong the life of terminal patients, they just try to make it as comfortable as possible for the time they have left.

So just food for thought really. It's always nice to hear opposing opinions.



I understand this and agree with it.

This woman was apparently told that her last weeks or months would be filled with pain. At least that's what she said. Whether or not that was true, I can understand her wanting to leave this Earth before she was degraded to such a state. If I were one of her family members, I would feel better knowing that she left on her own terms and had little to no suffering before she left. With her condition, for her last bits of time to be pain free, she likely would've had to be confined to a hospital and put on many drugs.

I guess it depends on the specific case/illness.
Last edited by MeGaDeth2314 at Nov 3, 2014,
#18
Quote by caeser1156
To sum it up really briefly its basically that the depression you go through when terminally ill is great enough to make a serious decision like this practically impossible to rationally make.

How patronizing
#19
Euthanasia is cool and suicide in general is cool, as previously stated in that one thread a few days back.
#20
Quote by necrosis1193
I support it, but I'd be very nervous about the idea that insurance companies could go "your illness is terminal and your treatment would be expensive, we're only going to cover euthanasia. "

Obviously that's a slippery slope argument, but I'm lying if it's not a concern of mine.

You are right to be concerned since appropriate coverage is already a problem, even when insurance companies abide by all regulations.

This shouldn't be an issue if people know what their policies will offer them in the future and plan accordingly, but even when full terminal illness coverage is included in the terms people tend to underestimate how much money they will need when an event occurs and no one wants to pay upfront for something that won't happen. If the company isnt playing straight either and you drop the possibility of euthanasia in there you just have a big mess.
#21
Quote by caeser1156
To sum it up really briefly its basically that the depression you go through when terminally ill is great enough to make a serious decision like this practically impossible to rationally make. So it boils down to an ethical standpoint of whether or not you think it's ok to still let people kill themselves even though they technically can't consent.

I've considered this, and I mentioned in a recent suicide thread something about competency and suicide. I think something like 15-25% of terminal cancer patients become clinically depressed. I read something that it's not dying that makes them depressed, it's the idea of dying alone, or something. Let me qualify what I said- I'm all right with it as long as the patient is mentally competent to consent.
Last edited by chrismendiola at Nov 3, 2014,
#22
Quote by chrismendiola
Let me qualify what I said- I'm all right with it as long as the patient is mentally competent to consent.

Exactly my view on the issue too. Which is why I say that I'm for it but I have a much more neutral view than most.
#23
Quote by caeser1156
Exactly my view on the issue too. Which is why I say that I'm for it but I have a much more neutral view than most.

I think every time we cross paths, we agree. It's like we could finish each other's
candles
.
#25
A second-rate solution, in a sense, to a poor provision of affordable palliative care.
#26
Quote by chrismendiola
I think every time we cross paths, we agree. It's like we could finish each other's
candles
.

I think it's because we both show up in basically ever psychology related thread and just so happen to be two of the only people in the pit who actually study it.
#27
if you ask me


people in this society have an incorrect belief that they are "owed" the right to their death, when the truth is that you are owed rights while you live. Death comes and goes as it pleases. To believe "death with dignity" holds anything other than naive superficiality is a fallacy
#28
Quote by necrosis1193
I support it, but I'd be very nervous about the idea that insurance companies could go "your illness is terminal and your treatment would be expensive, we're only going to cover euthanasia. "

Obviously that's a slippery slope argument, but I'm lying if it's not a concern of mine.


This is a scary thing I see happening for sure if assisted suicide is legalized

personally I do support it as long as it's heavily regulated and actual procedures are investigated in case you know, shady shit is going on

Although I do have one question, would assisted suicide be contradictory to the Hippocratic Oath?
#29
Quote by caeser1156
So just food for thought really. It's always nice to hear opposing opinions.


1. That assumes that everyone who receives a terminal diagnoses is depressed until the moment they die.

2. Most doctors aren't comfortable performing euthanasia, because of the Hippocratic Oath they took when being given the job. There are other reasons, of course, but that one seems to be the main one.

All that being said, in the state of mind I'm currently in, it's a simple choice for me. I'd rather end my life while I still had the mental capacity and motor skills to go out with some grace. I wouldn't want to put a financial and emotional burden on my family, as they watched me deteriorate and then die slowly. I think in the case of terminal illness, after a 3-6 month screening with a Psychologist, it should be allowed.
#30
Quote by JackWhiteIsButts
How patronizing


Exactly.

If they are a consenting, sane adult, they are rational to making a major decision.

As if depression is somehow an unnatural reaction considering one's impending death.
#31
The Hippocratic Oath is outdated in so many ways, any doctor strictly adhering to it is probably a shit doctor tbh
#32
Quote by Baby Joel
how to we gauge mental competence? What is the objective measuring system for it?

That's one of my qualms with the study. I'd argue there's no way to do this, like in a lot of psychology, a lot of it can't be proven or quantified. I think diagnosing a mental illness and deciding whether or not it affects cognitive reasoning by subjective means is the best there is right now.

Yeah, I know what I posted poses that issue, but my opinion is based on the idea that we live in a world where such a thing could be done.
#33
Quote by GuitarGod_92
The Hippocratic Oath is outdated in so many ways, any doctor strictly adhering to it is probably a shit doctor tbh

Seriously?
#34
Quote by guitarxo
Seriously?

The original, anyway. It's been so bastardized since (rightfully so) and is much more sound now, but adhering to an ideology that is founded on the flawed principles set forth hundreds of years ago instead of basing it around a concept of morality that has evolved much more since then is a bit silly.

I mean you can still make the strong case that the Hippocratic Oath prohibits abortion, even in its modern context. And, ya know, euthanasia. I say ditch the ritual and just be a good doctor.
#35
Quote by GuitarGod_92
The original, anyway. It's been so bastardized since (rightfully so) and is much more sound now, but adhering to an ideology that is founded on the flawed principles set forth hundreds of years ago instead of basing it around a concept of morality that has evolved much more since then is a bit silly.

I mean you can still make the strong case that the Hippocratic Oath prohibits abortion, even in its modern context. And, ya know, euthanasia. I say ditch the ritual and just be a good doctor.


No one even follows the original anymore anr many medical students dont even take an oath. Medical malpractice laws cover whatever the oath may have done before, but i think it's a good tradition.
#37
I support it because I dont want insurance companies and doctors making a shit load of money trying to keep her alive just for profits sake.
#38
Quote by Bladez22
I fully support assisted suicide, anyone against it is fvcking idiotic



Totally agree.

No Country, or Human......should have the right to decide what is best, for any other Human.
#39
I support it but only after a set age or in the case of terminal illness, to deal with depression is when it becomes completely immoral