#1
So last week I got a DXD10 with a broken headstock for $175, by no means a steal, but I wanted to try out a Jackson and this was a great opportunity to do so as well as learn some skills.

Right when it came I went straight to the headstock, which was broken in two pieces. The break was pretty clean but a little loose when pushed back together. Nevertheless some titebond and clamps fixed it right up. Unfortunately I couldn't get the split "J" to line up but hey, this is my first go at doing anything like this so I can't really complain.

Next was a complete cleaning of the guitar, Floyd, frets, the whole nine yards. I then went to string her up, which did not go so well. All but one of the string clamp screws at the bridge were stripped so I had to muscle the screws tight with pliers. Then more bad news, tuning. Every time I tuned to E standard, the strings would go flat and the bridge kept raising every time, so the springs are shot. I proceeded to block the bridge with a wood block and it tuned up just fine, but the intonation is wanky (G# on the 24th fret of the treble e string) and I have some dead fret areas on the A, D, and G strings on frets 15-22. I can't really do much for intonation because the Floyd doesn't have adjustment screws, and the string height was not the nice arc its supposed to be A and D are too low I think G is too. So now I'm asking if a Gotoh FR will sort me out, I know they are really good, but I need to know first if there are any warning flags here for other problems before I dump money into it.

Painting, I am considering this due to the scratched and dinged body, and the headstock too, I would like to sand it down and get a Jackson decal for it. I would redo the headstock black and the body a solid color after filling in the dings. I would like a time and cost estimate as I haven't been able to find a stable answer on google so far.

So thats the story,here are some pcis:







Dat FR block dough:




Last edited by JGM258 at Nov 9, 2014,
#2
Since your wanting to paint it a solid color, Bondo Glazing putty works great at filling dings.

You can buy replacement screws for the FR

Dupli-color Acrylic lacquer works really well for painting the guitar, Min-wax acrylic lacquer is what I use for the clear coat. 2 cans of color and 1 can of clear should be plenty
#3
Floyds DO have intonation screws. They're the black screws that are under the strings. They hold the saddle down. If you loosen it; the saddles can be moved forward or backward, thus intonating the string. (which is exactly what intonation screws on ToMs do) It is admittedly a painful process though.

As far as the finish, I personally would let it be, that's a nice flamed top and I like the look. But if you're dead set on repainting it, Robb's advice is solid. Unless you have exp with high quality painting and finishes though, you probably won't be happy with the results.

As far as the springs go, it looks like you have plenty of room to pull the spring claw in a little (via its screws, surprisingly) and that will get you more tension to counter the strings. (FR and probably others also sell high-tension springs if you find it necessary) Obviously if you are using a heavy gauge string but tuned to standard that will exert more tension than normal. And as you seem aware, new springs are easy to get a hold of. (FR and probably others also sell high-tension springs if you find it necessary)

You can get replacement parts for basically everything FR through their site, or offsites (Allparts, stewmac, etc) Judging from the pics your FR is a "Pro" style (as opposed to an "Original" or something else)

Hope that's helpful, GL to ya!
Last edited by RestinPeaceDime at Nov 10, 2014,
#4
before forking out money on a new floyd it sounds like you need to look up some videos on how to set up a floyd rose properly because everything you said in your OP tells me you don't really have a clue (not trying to be a dick here, just what it sounds like to me).

As far as the fret buzz sounds like truss rod needs adjustment...hold the guitar up and look down the fretboard (from the floyd end) to see what the curve of the neck is, it should be very close to flat and should never curve towards the strings. The frets should all look parallel, also look for lumps and twists
#5
Quote by sytharnia1560
before forking out money on a new floyd it sounds like you need to look up some videos on how to set up a floyd rose properly because everything you said in your OP tells me you don't really have a clue (not trying to be a dick here, just what it sounds like to me).

As far as the fret buzz sounds like truss rod needs adjustment...hold the guitar up and look down the fretboard (from the floyd end) to see what the curve of the neck is, it should be very close to flat and should never curve towards the strings. The frets should all look parallel, also look for lumps and twists


Well all the Floyd saddles are in the forward position (there are two screw holes to place the saddle in) and most of the strings start to go sharp up the fretboard, so there really isn't anything I can do about that unless I'm horribly mistaken. That's why I'm considering a Gotoh, it has the fine tuning for intonation as shown(yes the pic is a FRO, just for reference):

Neck relief looks pretty good, not that it makes much of a difference past the 15th fret where I'm having problems.



Perhaps I will lay off on the painting, I don't have any experience but I'm pretty confident I could do a good job as I do have a knack for diy sorta stuff.

Thanks for the help!
Last edited by JGM258 at Nov 10, 2014,
#6
The screws circled in the picture are the fine tuning screws, not intonation. Those are meant to tune the strings after the locking nut is...locked. The only difference between your floyd and the gotoh one is the gotoh one is modeled after a Floyd Rose Original. It has the string clamp screws going all the way to the back of the unit, fine tuning screws push down to change the tuning. The "pro" model has the screw right behind the saddle, with metal fins coming out for the fine tuning.

Also, if the saddles are all the way forward and the string is sharp; that's good news as a sharp intonation would need the saddle moved back (making the string longer)

Edit: you changed the picture, now the items circled are the screws that clamp the block against the strings.
Last edited by RestinPeaceDime at Nov 10, 2014,
#7
Here are some pics of an Original style bridge i have hanging around =p



The red circle has the intonation screw in the forward most hole, but the saddle pulled back. The green circle has all the other intonation screws in the middle hole. With the saddles in varying positions. The screw simply acts as a clamp. The saddles have an open slot that can be adjusted to any position the screw can reach. They slide freely once the screw is loosened. (Keep in mind if there's a string pulling on it when you loosen it, it will not-so-surpisingly yank the saddle all the way forward.) The blue circle just shows how the screw there goes all the way through, and straight into the back of the saddle.



There's a shot of a saddle removed from the unit. You can see the slot is open, and from what I can see in your pics, your saddles are as well.



The last picture is the underside of the unit, with its three fixed holes showing. As I mentioned before, the holes are fixed, but the saddle can be moved at any place and clamped down as needed.

In conclusion; I can't see super well from your pics but it looks like the screws are in the middle hole, with the saddles roughly in the middle of their slot. In other words, they seem to have room to, one way or the other, be moved in either direction.

As far as the neck goes, if you're having "dead frets" there's really only a few ways that can happen. Bad frets, bad neck, or bad string height. Or of course, a combination of all. You should get a long straight edge (18'' steel ruler for example) even something 6'' or so can help. Lay it across the frets you're having issues with, see if any are low. A low fret would cause the note to be entirely skipped, as the string will be cut off at the highest point (the two other frets). If you're just having buzz, there's a good chance the neck isn't straight, and/or you have the bridge too low.
#8
Well after giving it another go, I discovered that the fretwork up on the high end is bad... I got the intonation closer, but seeing the frets are bad, I'm going to let this one go. (Neck relief is ok)

I was willing to put in money for a FR and paint job, but seeing the frets aren't good just turns me off, not too sure I can do that myself and don't wont ti risk spending more money. Oh well, worst case scenario I lose money on shipping.
#9
Quote by JGM258
Well after giving it another go, I discovered that the fretwork up on the high end is bad... I got the intonation closer, but seeing the frets are bad, I'm going to let this one go. (Neck relief is ok)

I was willing to put in money for a FR and paint job, but seeing the frets aren't good just turns me off, not too sure I can do that myself and don't wont ti risk spending more money. Oh well, worst case scenario I lose money on shipping.

So lemmie get this straight, you go to the effort of buying a guitar with a broken headstock, attempt to repair it, decide to buy the guitar a new Floyd Rose, and because a few frets near the end of the neck are high, then you decide to sell it?

Dude, fret dressing from a luthier is very cheap compared to giving the guitar a new bridge. You're already throwing money and time into the guitar, may as well make the guitar playable now.

It's stories like this which make me so reluctant to buy a guitar unseen on ebay.
Last edited by T00DEEPBLUE at Nov 10, 2014,
#10
Quote by T00DEEPBLUE
So lemmie get this straight, you go to the effort of buying a guitar with a broken headstock, attempt to repair it, decide to buy the guitar a new Floyd Rose, and because a few frets near the end of the neck are high, then you decide to sell it?

Dude, fret dressing from a luthier is very cheap compared to giving the guitar a new bridge. You're already throwing money and time into the guitar, may as well make the guitar playable now.

It's stories like this which make me so reluctant to buy a guitar unseen on ebay.


I haven't put a dime into it, I did not buy a new FR. I got wayyy too much time on my hands so I'm not worried about that, I'm just not wanting to buy fret leveling materials on top of a new bridge and paint, I'd be better off going for another guitar. Not to mention I could cause damage to the frets driving my costs even higher. This was a "just for fun" sorta project in the hopes that a little wood glue and tlc could fix. I don't want to turn it into a "why did I put over $200 into this thing" and end up with a guitar with a potentially poor refinish, in need of a fret dressing, and possibly a setup. The bridge is just shot, there are only 2 posts for saddle adjustment and i have tried every combination possible and haven't been able to get some of the strings to intonate. I had no intention of spending $400+ (including the cost of the guitar) to get it playable. The frets are the swaying point for me. Again, its not exactly a big deal, I'll lose some money on it but whatever. Next time I go used, it'll be from GC used in store or online where I have a return period.
Last edited by JGM258 at Nov 10, 2014,
#11
I didn't tell you to buy fret levelling materials. I suggested to go to a luthier to do that.

And I didn't say that you did buy a Floyd Rose either. I said that you decided to buy one.
#12
Wow... well I'm sorry you're going to give up on it. What's the point of a fixer-upper if you don't need to fix anything! I'd offer to buy it from you myself if I wasn't so broke, lol... (I'm in FL as well) I could honestly do about $100. I recommend sitting on it for a bit and think it over, I make guitars myself from scratch (I do mean from scratch, no kits) and sometimes it can feel like every little thing is going wrong, losing hundreds of dollars, weeks of work, etc...The fret thing is far from insurmountable. If you are uncomfortable with redressing or even refretting, you should really just take that thing in to a professional and have them ballpark a price for ya. Soaking $100-200 into that thing really isn't bad at all.

Best of luck to you...
Last edited by RestinPeaceDime at Nov 10, 2014,
#13
Quote by JGM258
I haven't put a dime into it, I did not buy a new FR. I got wayyy too much time on my hands so I'm not worried about that, I'm just not wanting to buy fret leveling materials on top of a new bridge and paint, I'd be better off going for another guitar. Not to mention I could cause damage to the frets driving my costs even higher. This was a "just for fun" sorta project in the hopes that a little wood glue and tlc could fix. I don't want to turn it into a "why did I put over $200 into this thing" and end up with a guitar with a potentially poor refinish, in need of a fret dressing, and possibly a setup. The bridge is just shot, there are only 2 posts for saddle adjustment and i have tried every combination possible and haven't been able to get some of the strings to intonate. I had no intention of spending $400+ (including the cost of the guitar) to get it playable. The frets are the swaying point for me. Again, its not exactly a big deal, I'll lose some money on it but whatever. Next time I go used, it'll be from GC used in store or online where I have a return period.


That is a pretty decent guitar to just throw away. I don't know if you care at this point, but your bridge is perfectly fine and all the intonation screws show in your picture; I am inclined to believe you are confusing the spring claw screws with what would be the intonation screws (which by the way, you have been given expert advice on, with illustrative pictures and incredibly detailed explanation that I saw you ignore post after post, pictures included.)

Once again, YOUR BRIDGE IS FINE. So worst case scenario you need a little refretting? That's a very simple job, and I understand not wanting to spend a lot of money into it if you don't care to learn or do more of it n the future, even for yourself (which would be great, seeing as you pointed out how much you like DIY projects), in which case you can just take it to somebody that can fix it for you. Again, relatively inexpensive.

You have a really nice guitar there, a TLC project requires TLC, all I have learned from your posts is that you don't know how a Floyd Rose bridge works, and that you want to ruin the flamed blue finish of your guitar doing something also extremely difficult if you have no idea what you are doing: A NEW PAINT JOB. THAT is going to soak most of your money, because painting seems so innocuous and inoffensive yet is incredibly, stupidly hard to do right.
Sure the guitar has dings, repairable dings...I don't know, man...sell it to someone who cares, honestly.

Next time, you can buy yourself a kit and experiment with that instead. But, read the instructions, or you'll end up asking for and then ignoring advice again, and that's just not good business of anyone's time. Not even yours.

Good luck to you.
#14
Quote by RestinPeaceDime
Wow... well I'm sorry you're going to give up on it. What's the point of a fixer-upper if you don't need to fix anything! I'd offer to buy it from you myself if I wasn't so broke, lol... (I'm in FL as well) I could honestly do about $100. I recommend sitting on it for a bit and think it over, I make guitars myself from scratch (I do mean from scratch, no kits) and sometimes it can feel like every little thing is going wrong, losing hundreds of dollars, weeks of work, etc...The fret thing is far from insurmountable. If you are uncomfortable with redressing or even refretting, you should really just take that thing in to a professional and have them ballpark a price for ya. Soaking $100-200 into that thing really isn't bad at all.

Best of luck to you...


Thank you so much for your intuitive posts so far, I will strongly consider your words.
I will likely not proceed, however if I can't get it straightened out by myself for little more cost than a new FR, which I would get anyways if I keep it. I would be better off cutting my losses and scooping up a deal on GC used gear with a return policy if something is wrong.

Where are you in FL? I am in Tampa and would much sooner sell it to you than anyone else.

Quote by IaraYael
That is a pretty decent guitar to just throw away. I don't know if you care at this point, but your bridge is perfectly fine and all the intonation screws show in your picture; I am inclined to believe you are confusing the spring claw screws with what would be the intonation screws (which by the way, you have been given expert advice on, with illustrative pictures and incredibly detailed explanation that I saw you ignore post after post, pictures included.)

Once again, YOUR BRIDGE IS FINE. So worst case scenario you need a little refretting? That's a very simple job, and I understand not wanting to spend a lot of money into it if you don't care to learn or do more of it n the future, even for yourself (which would be great, seeing as you pointed out how much you like DIY projects), in which case you can just take it to somebody that can fix it for you. Again, relatively inexpensive.

You have a really nice guitar there, a TLC project requires TLC, all I have learned from your posts is that you don't know how a Floyd Rose bridge works, and that you want to ruin the flamed blue finish of your guitar doing something also extremely difficult if you have no idea what you are doing: A NEW PAINT JOB. THAT is going to soak most of your money, because painting seems so innocuous and inoffensive yet is incredibly, stupidly hard to do right.
Sure the guitar has dings, repairable dings...I don't know, man...sell it to someone who cares, honestly.

Next time, you can buy yourself a kit and experiment with that instead. But, read the instructions, or you'll end up asking for and then ignoring advice again, and that's just not good business of anyone's time. Not even yours.

Good luck to you.


Please don't assume I am ignoring advice, that is certainly not the case.

With RestinPeaceDime's explanation I know how a FR works. My intonation is "technically" correct but not actually. The open, fretted 12, and harmonic 12 are all within a couple cents, but the notes are way off on some frets, 25-40 cents on the 24 fret of all strings. I don't know why this is, but the intonation is not acceptable. Whether this is due to the bridge, neck, scale length or whatever, I am lost on it. String height is all over too, guess I would need shims to fix that.

I really know very little about painting, so I will take your word on that and leave it, not that I plan on keeping this for long anyways.
#15
Quote by JGM258
Thank you so much for your intuitive posts so far, I will strongly consider your words.
I will likely not proceed, however if I can't get it straightened out by myself for little more cost than a new FR, which I would get anyways if I keep it. I would be better off cutting my losses and scooping up a deal on GC used gear with a return policy if something is wrong.

Where are you in FL? I am in Tampa and would much sooner sell it to you than anyone else.




I am glad to see your responses; if you choose to sell it, you can rest assured it will be gold in RestinPeaceDime's hands.

If not, listen to him, and I appreciate you wanting to heed my warning on the paint issue.
#16
I'm about an hour south of Tampa, Sarasota area(ish). If you're sure you want to sell it, throw me a day/time and I can see about meeting you. (Ideally my time would be Saturday afternoon)
Last edited by RestinPeaceDime at Nov 10, 2014,
#17
Quote by RestinPeaceDime
I'm about an hour south of Tampa, Sarasota area(ish). If you're sure you want to sell it, throw me a day/time and I can see about meeting you. (Ideally my time would be Saturday afternoon)



I'll be sure to let you know if/when I sell it.

But first I would like to hear about the intonation being ok at open, 12, and harmonic 12, but not further up the board. I'm really clueless about that one and would like some insight.
#18
Quote by JGM258
I'll be sure to let you know if/when I sell it.

But first I would like to hear about the intonation being ok at open, 12, and harmonic 12, but not further up the board. I'm really clueless about that one and would like some insight.


I'm guessing user error ... just based on your other comments in this thread
#19
You could actually have a respectable guitar here if you were open to considering the purchase of a neck off of Ebay. Having a luthier work on your current neck would be a waste of money because it's so hammered (where I'm at, neck dressing + setup is over $120.00 by a pro). If you keep your eyes peeled, you may be able to find a good PS4 neck for under $100.00. Or, if you want to get fancy, you can get an MIJ reverse headstock fully bound DXMG neck or something, in many cases with hardware for around $165.00.

Here is a DX10D neck for $110.00 + $19.00 shipping:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2006-Jackson-DX10D-Guitar-Neck-Sharkfin-Inlays-GN-2863-/301388371096?pt=Guitar_Accessories&hash=item462c259498

This is an exact replacement.

Anyway, just my personal opinion, I wouldn't even waste time on the neck you have.

By the way, if your neck is like one of mine, the Jackson logo can't be sanded off. It is integrated into the plastic "plate". In other words, the whole sheet would need to be steamed or heated off.

It's not just a decal.
Last edited by JackBanez at Nov 12, 2014,
#21
Well, I can only guess as to what's going on with the intonation. It's impossible for anybody to know without looking at it personally. But for my guess, I would say it is any number of the following in any combination:

User Error. The most likely option, considering what follows:

I saw you blocked the back of the bridge, that will stop it from tilting up, thus loosening the strings. You say the guitar is going sharp, the bridge can still move down (as far down as the recess is) thus tightening the strings.

Your method of using 12 and 12 harmonic works, but is not the most thorough. 5th and 17th work, you can try to get it so open, 5th, 17, and 24th are all in tune, but I can tell you now, that not a single guitar I own can be truly perfectly intonated.

Your tuner, I'm not sure what type of tuner you're using, or if you're using it right. But the average Korg or what have you isn't really adequate to get good intonation.

This is a long shot, but considering what that guitar has definitely been through, and what it MAY have been through, we don't know. But something happened to snap that headstock into 3 pieces, and it's possible it damaged some frets as well. It's also very likely the truss rod got thrown out of whack, not to mention you don't know what gauge string he used, what tuning he played in, etc. The neck could be twisted and/or bowed. All of this affects the neck tension, thus requiring truss rod adjustment. The reason this is a long shot is not the improbability of the neck being out of whack, but the fact that I don't see how those could cause the frets to be THAT far off.

Lastly, unless things have changed since your OP, you said the high E at the 24th is G#, making it 4 frets too high, while it's in tune at the 12th? The only way that's right is if your 24th fret is 4 frets worth of distance higher than it should be(or 6 frets low). And I promise, that's not the case.
________________________

So, if you want to mess with it some more to get a better idea, I say use your tuner (if you have a good one) on each fret and find out what's right and what's not. Don't expect perfection, just "close". You have to ensure the bridge doesn't move while doing this (in either direction), if it does, it makes any precise measuring irrelevant.

More details on precisely what you have tried would also help.

Good luck!