#1
So, I'm pretty new to tube amps. I have a 112 6505+ combo and I like the gain and lead channel but I was wondering if there was anything I could do to get a better clean channel while keeping the lead channel pretty much the same? Could tubes and a speaker swap allow for greater cleans while keeping the other slightly similar?
#2
Colder tubes in the preamp, 12au7 or one of the other types, thetubestore.com has comparison.
#4
if it uses separate preamp tubes for each channel (i think it might but i'm not sure) then that should work

speaker... maybe, but it'll change the tone of both channels. You may well be able to find a speaker which has better cleans but whose dirt is as good, but it's a bit of a crapshoot, especially if you like how the dirt sounds with the current speaker.

you could always go for the easiest solution which is maybe a chorus and/or delay and/or reverb pedal to use with your cleans.
#6
Quote by Robbgnarly
Put 5751 tubes in V1 and the PI


This. JJs would be my recommendation, because they're cheap, reliable (in my experience) and sound great in a 6505. I've also used 12at7s in the PI slot and they warm up the cleans even more, but the high-gain sound is not quite as gnarly.

5751 in both V1 and PI will make the amp sound better on every channel. I've also used a JJ ECC803 in V1 and it reduces gain a little as well, warming up your cleans. It provides a little richer midrange on your distortion sounds but a 5751 has a little more low-end and clarity. Pick your poison, really.
#7
With the 6505+ it isn't a simple matter of V1 for clean, V2 for dirt.
V1a is common. V1b is clean. V2a is dirt, V2b is clean. V3 and V4 are dirt exclusively. So there is no tube you can change that will affect the clean channel that won't have an effect on the dirt channel.
But here's the question that must be answered - how high do you run the gain on the dirt channel?
#9
Or mod it. It's just a matter of being clever about it. A simple resistor change or the right combination of tubes can work magic. But we need to know how he runs the amp.
#10
Quote by Tempoe
Said many times before, if you want good cleans get another amp/


Have you ever tried what was recommended in this thread?

I get decent cleans with mine even with active pickups. Throw in a little reverb, delay, and slight modulation (not to mention, careful EQing) and I daresay it sounds amazing.
#11
Quote by Cathbard
With the 6505+ it isn't a simple matter of V1 for clean, V2 for dirt.
V1a is common. V1b is clean. V2a is dirt, V2b is clean. V3 and V4 are dirt exclusively. So there is no tube you can change that will affect the clean channel that won't have an effect on the dirt channel.
But here's the question that must be answered - how high do you run the gain on the dirt channel?



I think he'd be happy with a 5751 in both V1 and V5. They really don't reduce the overall gain that much. If he runs his gain at "3" normally, he might run it at "3.5 - 4" with the 5751s. They give more headroom and "warmth" though. I've found that those two tubes also give the amp better single-note clarity on big chords, while still maintaining a punishing rhythm tone. However, if he likes a totally washed-out sea of gain the 5751s might not be his thing...
#12
Well that's what I was getting at. If his gain isn't that high, I'd even try a 12AT7 in V1. You can get NOS 12AT7's for decent prices still too.
#13
The 5751's in V1 and V5 tamed most of the fizz and let's you use the gain knob a little more in my 5150 combo.

What about using a 12DW7 for V2? That way the gain channel (V2a) gets 12AX7 like properties but the clean channel (V2b) gets something like a 12AU7?

I'm thinking of picking one of these up next time I fiddle with tubes.
#14
For warm(ish) cleans from a 6505+, start by turning the post gain all the way up and the pre-gain all the way down. Use the pre-gain as a volume control essentially. Turn the presence and treble basically all the way down and turn the resonance and bass wayyyyy up. Mids to taste. This gives basically the warmest sound you can get out of a 6505+ without an EQ in the loop. If you add some reverb/delay it actually sounds really good. You won't be getting fender or AC30 cleans but it's still good
#15
Quote by Cathbard
With the 6505+ it isn't a simple matter of V1 for clean, V2 for dirt.
V1a is common. V1b is clean. V2a is dirt, V2b is clean. V3 and V4 are dirt exclusively. So there is no tube you can change that will affect the clean channel that won't have an effect on the dirt channel.
But here's the question that must be answered - how high do you run the gain on the dirt channel?


12dw7 or something like that?

that's probably overthinking it, though. and it might be the wrong way round, anyway.

EDIT: ninjaed
#16
Quote by Cathbard
With the 6505+ it isn't a simple matter of V1 for clean, V2 for dirt.
V1a is common. V1b is clean. V2a is dirt, V2b is clean. V3 and V4 are dirt exclusively. So there is no tube you can change that will affect the clean channel that won't have an effect on the dirt channel.
But here's the question that must be answered - how high do you run the gain on the dirt channel?


Not very high unless I'm just kind of messing around with settings but usually never past 6. I've noticed a little gain goes a long way on this amp.

Should I invest in a EQ pedal? I don't really have any pedals so I guess I could get a few to enhance my tone. What EQ pedal would you guys recommend?
Last edited by Fallenoath at Nov 11, 2014,
#18
Quote by Fallenoath
Not very high unless I'm just kind of messing around with settings but usually never past 6. I've noticed a little gain goes a long way on this amp.

Should I invest in a EQ pedal? I don't really have any pedals so I guess I could get a few to enhance my tone. What EQ pedal would you guys recommend?


Yes, get an EQ pedal. I also recommend the MXR 10-band over anything else. Mine is sort of set purely for my high gain sound, and it makes a huge difference in tone. If you think your tone is good now -- wait until you get an EQ pedal! Cutting the highest highs on the EQ pedal will almost completely eliminate fizzyness. It is the most important pedal on my board.

Oddly enough, I don't use it for cleans so much. I just set my clean channel for more bass/less presence as PRS Lover said. I'd be careful running the post gain all the way up though -- if you accidentally bump the preamp gain knob past "1" or so it's going to be louder than hell.
#19
Quote by Fallenoath
Not very high unless I'm just kind of messing around with settings but usually never past 6. I've noticed a little gain goes a long way on this amp.

Should I invest in a EQ pedal? I don't really have any pedals so I guess I could get a few to enhance my tone. What EQ pedal would you guys recommend?


The MXR is good, as is the GE-7. I have the BASS version of the GE-7; it still has 7 bands, but the bands are spread out over a wider range (bass players often use the entire audible spectrum, while guitar players live in a fairly small range). If I were buying again, I'd probably try the MXR 10-band this time around. My rack has a dual-31-band EQ unit. I'm not sure how necessary THAT is, but it was left over from another project, was available, was a rack mount already, so there it sits <G>.

I think the question has to be asked addressed whether the 6505 is the right amp for the OP. I've been told before on these forums that the 6505 is the "right tool for the job" when it comes to gainy metal. It's certainly an easy pick for that one thing, but as it stands, it's not a versatile amp.

If you're NOT a complete gainiac, then you need to look at a different amp or some modifications to the clean channel. Cathbard's suggestion (circuitry modification) has merit, if the job can be done with simplicity. I went the opposite direction with an amp that has a gorgeous clean channel, but which needed a legato gain channel modified for a bit more "Vintage Marshall, but with a lot more gain." In my case the results were stellar -- maybe there's a solution for this one. But I don't think tube swaps are the answer, and speaker swaps certainly aren't.
#21
Quote by Cathbard
Stick a 12AT7 in V1


Agreed, I use AT's and AU's in v1 quite often, and with good results.

Of course it helps that I've got a box of RCA and Sylvania 12AU7's...
#22
NOS 12AU7's are cheap. NOS 12AT7's aren't too expensive either.

TS, go here and find a nice American, Western European or British one. Maybe buy both a 12AT7 and a 12AU7 and experiment.
#23
Quote by Cathbard
NOS 12AU7's are cheap. NOS 12AT7's aren't too expensive either.

TS, go here and find a nice American, Western European or British one. Maybe buy both a 12AT7 and a 12AU7 and experiment.



Ok, thank you! I will look into this.

So would you also recommend getting a EQ pedal as well? Are there any other pedals that are overall universally good to use for any pedal rig?
#25
Some mild chorus on clean usually works well in not so clean rigs, I used it on my Sansamp PSA-1 rig which could never really deliver clean "clean" sound. Light chorus, I'd suggest Voodoolabs since that's what I used but you could also try something cheaper.
#26
The MXR 10 band is what you want. It has a gain and volume control so it can be tweaked for use on any rig regardless of the levels involved. Particularly good for use as a boost pedal because you can adjust the volume without disturbing your carefully dialed in curve.
#27
Quote by Cathbard
The MXR 10 band is what you want. It has a gain and volume control so it can be tweaked for use on any rig regardless of the levels involved. Particularly good for use as a boost pedal because you can adjust the volume without disturbing your carefully dialed in curve.



Cool, Ill see about getting one.

Thanks for all the replies and tips folks!