Poll: Which of the live gig setups work best for me?
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View poll results: Which of the live gig setups work best for me?
Directly into the PA on both outputs, hope for the best.
3 60%
PA System + Line 6 Spider IV 30
0 0%
PA System + Fender Mustang I
1 20%
Line 6 Spider IV 30 + Fender Mustaing I
1 20%
Voters: 5.
#1
Hello,

It's been a while since I've last posted on this forum. So, without further ado, let's continue.
I'm currently in university at the moment, and I don't have enough money to afford a tube amp for the time being. What I do have is a Zoom G5 that is PA-compatible, which I can easily plug in directly into the PA system at the gig.
For the guitar, I've recently switched from a Fender Jaguar to an Ibanez S521 Mol, which in my personal opinion, was a really good decision I've made on my part.
I've also recently purchased a small practice amp, a Fender Mustang I, which I use for practice sessions as it is smaller and easier to carry than the Line 6 Spider IV 30 I have as of now.

Now, with regards to the live setup, I did have some issues with the sound crew adjusting the volume. In some instances, even when I have a distortion channel set onto my patches, the sound that comes out of the PA system is a near-clean guitar sound that does not even closely resemble the distorted sound. Later on, it was found that the PA crew probably adjusted the volume level for my guitar sound incorrectly, in which the PA system itself was not to blame.

FYI, Zoom G5 has up to three output plugs - one XLR and two 1/4-inch outputs. I currently have one XLR cable and one standard guitar cable I have in use for the output settings.

Because I have two practice amps at this time, I now have an opportunity to mix and match my live gig setup. As of now, I'm seeing up to four setup variants I can make:
Variant 1: Directly into the PA system on both outputs, hope that the sound crew do their job right.
Variant 2: Output 1 into the PA system, Output 2 into the Line 6 Spider IV 30
Variant 3: Output 1 into the PA system, Output 2 into the Fender Mustang I
Variant 4: Output 1 into Line 6 Spider IV 30, Output 2 into the Fender Mustang I

So, which of these variants work best for me? Please note, I am not looking for the quality of the sound - I'm putting more weight into finding the right volume for the live shows.
Thank you!
#2
Line 6 POD would be way better than anything you mention. low end practice amps probably aren't the way I'd wanna go live.
#4
Plugging straight in should be perfectly fine. Take some time at your next opportunity to dial in the G5 for the PA and get used to the interaction.

I don't think there's anything the sound guys could have done to create that issue. That sounds like something from your end. Read through the G5 manual and see if there's some sort of bypass mode you may have had on by accident.
#5
I used to quite often use a Line6 Pod instead of an amp for duo gigs, straight into the PA, and I also found that distortion sounds were a mixed bag - high-gain ones were usually alright but lower-gain overdrivey sounds usually sounded appalling. The hard truth is that PA amps have a completely different response to a guitar signal to guitar amps.

My advice would be to keep things simple, take whichever amp works best for you for gigs (probably the Spider for the simple fact it will be louder...) and mic it up.
#6
Quote by monwobobbo
Line 6 POD would be way better than anything you mention. low end practice amps probably aren't the way I'd wanna go live.

There's a reason why I've chosen Zoom G5 over a Line 6 POD. Zoom G5 actually has a wah pedal as well as a pitch shifter that I can use to artificially drop-tune without having to spend $300 for a Digitech Whammy DT.

Quote by Roc8995
Plugging straight in should be perfectly fine. Take some time at your next opportunity to dial in the G5 for the PA and get used to the interaction.

I don't think there's anything the sound guys could have done to create that issue. That sounds like something from your end. Read through the G5 manual and see if there's some sort of bypass mode you may have had on by accident.

I'm sure that my XLR modes were surely on POST signal mode, meaning that any and all effects that are used in the Zoom G5 are taken into account. Is there any other way that the G5 could've gone on bypass mode? 'Cause all of my distortion effects were on when this issue occurred.

Quote by Tombe
I used to quite often use a Line6 Pod instead of an amp for duo gigs, straight into the PA, and I also found that distortion sounds were a mixed bag - high-gain ones were usually alright but lower-gain overdrivey sounds usually sounded appalling. The hard truth is that PA amps have a completely different response to a guitar signal to guitar amps.

My advice would be to keep things simple, take whichever amp works best for you for gigs (probably the Spider for the simple fact it will be louder...) and mic it up.

Would it be possible for me to use both of my practice amps in the gig and max out the volumes on both of them to boost the sound just enough so that it will marginally, if not significantly, overpower the drums' volume? Just wondering, that's all.
#7
I'd gig with the biggest amp I currently have and leave the pa with miked cab, instead of giving them a DI. Usually if you just give them a DI feed you're pretty much at their mercy.


On your last question: It is possible through fx return or tape/CD inputs to bypass the two modelling amp and use only as power amps providing effects from the Zoom pedal. At that point it might be loud enough but who knows...try it and see.
#8
Quote by diabolical
I'd gig with the biggest amp I currently have and leave the pa with miked cab, instead of giving them a DI. Usually if you just give them a DI feed you're pretty much at their mercy.


On your last question: It is possible through fx return or tape/CD inputs to bypass the two modelling amp and use only as power amps providing effects from the Zoom pedal. At that point it might be loud enough but who knows...try it and see.

+1 to this.
#9
Quote by diabolical
I'd gig with the biggest amp I currently have and leave the pa with miked cab, instead of giving them a DI. Usually if you just give them a DI feed you're pretty much at their mercy.


On your last question: It is possible through fx return or tape/CD inputs to bypass the two modelling amp and use only as power amps providing effects from the Zoom pedal. At that point it might be loud enough but who knows...try it and see.

I'll probably use this weekend as an opportunity to try out the duel amp setup and I'll report back on the results. I personally don't like to mic the amp due to the fact that I did have feedback issues a long time ago when I miked my own 30-watt amp once.
#10
Was your Spider 30 loud enough for practice with the drum?
Was your mustang enough?

Was there any kind of cab emulation when you pluged in the PA?

I don't think the Spider 30 and Mustang would be loud enough for live gig, unless it's realy "soft" and low playing, but unless you plug a mic in front, it'll be mute by not much people being there.

The Mic in PA would help you keep your current tone tought, that would help. But would the drummer be able to hear you enough...?
#11
Quote by t1mman
Was your Spider 30 loud enough for practice with the drum?
Was your mustang enough?

Was there any kind of cab emulation when you pluged in the PA?

I don't think the Spider 30 and Mustang would be loud enough for live gig, unless it's realy "soft" and low playing, but unless you plug a mic in front, it'll be mute by not much people being there.

The Mic in PA would help you keep your current tone tought, that would help. But would the drummer be able to hear you enough...?

These are the results for the loudness of my guitar sounds when using single practice amps with drums:
Line 6 Spider IV 30 - Channel Volume on 85%, Master Volume Max made it loud enough to overpower the drums during practice.
Fender Mustang I - Maxed out volume for both preset and master but was still marginally softer than the drums.
I've yet to test them hooked up together on individual outputs from my Zoom G5.
(FYI, I play heavy metal music.)
#12
I don't wana be the guy that tells every one it's "not enough", so, try it first.

If the drum doesn't have to be on the PA, you might be fine, but keep in mind that this setup will need to be "in the air" in order for the crowd to hear it.

It might also sound "thin" when playing heavyer. I wouldn't feel realy confident playing something "heavy" with a practice amp. You will mosty likely lose a lot of definition.

If you can spare the change, you can always check for a "cheap" solid state combo and plug your setup in the effect loop or, even better, get yourself a power amp and a cab.

A "cheap" cab like a line 6 or a Peavey 412 can go for not much, used. Put a power on that and you got enough for pretty much everything that doesn't need the drum in the PA!

BTW: There's a lot on guitarist that goes direct in the PA also, you'll have to tune your patch for it, that's all
Last edited by t1mman at Nov 13, 2014,
#13
Sounds like your Spider IS the amp to take to the gig. Don't overcomplicate things.
If you really need to take 2 you can probably daisy chain the two:
The headphone out:

I think the top little 1/8 jack is "tape" or "line in" which will allow you to just use the power amp on the Mustang, bypassing the preamp section. If you have to, go through the preamp section if it is last minute.


Another option would be to do a stereo setup where you get left and right signal from your Zoom and feed into the 1/8 mp3/tape/CD jacks on both amps.
In that case you'll have to make or get two 1/4 to 1/8 cables and engage the "post" on the Zoom. If you're connecting through the amp's instrument inputs then you'd have to be on the "pre" setting.


If you want to go nuts you can even get the sound man to DI you into the board via the XLR but that usually gets worse results than having them set up a mic. I think it has to do with the fact that they know how to deal with amplified guitar signals vs DI sounds, or maybe they just have presets made for that occasion which doesn't translate well to DI guitar.
I know when I worked live sound that's what we did - we had a pretty much tuned eq patch for every instrument and after line check on local bands if it sounded passable, we just left it that way while we hit the bar. I know it sounds bad, but most likely any of the bands on an off night won't have Yngwie as a guitarist so what if he's not mixed 100%? Sound men don't care and after a while you get jaded...oh, another emo band or whatever... Just to give you an idea of the general attitude. Now a getting them a shot of something drink usually makes them pay more attention to the guitarist in question.

On another note - don't forget that mids are your friend. Also go as light as you can on the distortion and echo fx. The more of these you pile on, the more you get lost in the mix. So dial down on that as well, especially reverb. Think about it - the room is already pretty big and has natural reverb, so you're piling the room's natural acoustics on top of your reverb. So if you have heavy "wet" setting, you just get lost in the mix.
Last edited by diabolical at Nov 13, 2014,
#14
Hello all,

Thank you so much for your replies. I have tested the setup and the results are up as follows:
-Using both amps on max volume has successfully produced a volume level that is loud enough to overpower a non-miked drum set.
-The gain issue I have referred to before is no longer an issue with the setup, but now it is related to my guitar itself. I will post a new thread on the Electric Guitar subforum page as it is no longer appropriate for me to address any issues on this page.

Admins may now lock this thread if they wish. Thank you for your assistance!