#1
Hello,
This is my first post. I searched other posts and could not find what I was looking for. My very first electric guitar was in 1987 in a pawn shop for $90. It was a 1970s Crestwood Les Paul copy. It did not play well. It got stolen and the guy who bought it from the thief set it up and it played killer after that. Later I used it as trade towards another guitar. Lately I have been keeping my eye open for one because I would like to have one again just for the sake of having it.
I found one but the guy wants like $350. It has like six holes drilled in it where there were different strap button placements and the neck strap button is in the wrong place. I wouldn't so much mind except that each hole has caused damage to the finish and paint down to the wood. The button on the back has been cranked in so hard that there is some real damage to the finish and paint. Near that is two acceptable dings but in the photo you can see five or six very visible cracks in the finish. Lastly, the screws on the neck plate have signs of damage as you can see where the neck has been removed again leaving damage to the finish and paint.
I know it sounds like a hunk of crap and I refuse to pay $350. I am not sure if I am allowed to post some pictures or not. I was wondering if anyone else here would throw out a $100 offer? That or keep looking?

Also, I'm looking for an Ibanez MC500 or MC300. I see them on ebay and Reverb but I find them over priced at $1500 or more.
#2
I can't help as I have never heard of Crestwood guitar but I'm sure $350.00 is a laughable price since you can buy a mint used Epiphone Les Paul for that price and they are really nice guitars. To even ask someone to pay $350.00 for a guitar that sounds like it was really abused is crazy. Just because it's old doesn't make it valuable. I have a 1976 Ibanez Les Paul copy that I have abused (accidentaly) since I bought it new in early 1977 and although it plays incredibaly well it can't be worth more than $500-600.00 and it's in fairly decent shape for a 38 year old road dog guitar. Maybe $100.00 for the nostalgia value to you personally but I wouldn't do it. Just my useless two cents worth.
Last edited by Rickholly74 at Nov 25, 2014,
#3
100 bucks for Nostalgia, sure. I wouldn't spend a dime more though.


You might find the rose tinted glasses tend to fade pretty quickly too so you may find you're disappointed with it in the end. So I guess keep all of that in mind before you decide.
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#4
Wait for a cleaner one. They made a bunch and it's a decent knockoff LP.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
#5
first off not a lawsuit guitar. totally overused phrase to up the price on any 70s copy guitar. I'd be surprised if it is worth anything even close to $350. wishful thinking. pass
#6
Quote by monwobobbo
first off not a lawsuit guitar. totally overused phrase to up the price on any 70s copy guitar. I'd be surprised if it is worth anything even close to $350. wishful thinking. pass



This!
Probably has a bolt on neck to boot.
Moving on.....
#7
Thanks folks. that's about what I guessed. Yes, it does have a bolt on neck. It's been removed. Slight damage to plate screws and finish and paint around the neck joint.
NO DEAL!!!
I'll wait.
#8
By any chance are you talking about the one for sale on the Cleveland Craigslist? I agree with the others, $100 tops, I highly doubt its worth anything near $350
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#9
I agree with monwobobo about that overused phrase "lawsuit era" guitar. Ibanez (more accurately Elger Co. the USA distributer of Ibanez) was sued by Gibson over the shape of the LP copy headstock that Ibanez was using. By the fall of 1976 Ibanez had already stopped using that headstock design and had created their own. (See the pic of my Ibanez LP made in Oct 1976. Note the vey un-Gibson like headstock). Every guitar made in any remote LP style the 70's has somehow become a "lawsuit era" guitar. I have even seen people trying to sell Ibanez guitars made in 1977-78 calling them "lawsuit era". They are not.
Here is a link to an article from Premier Guitar that explains it all pretty well.

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Ibanez_Lawsuit_Era_Les_Paul_Custom_Copy
Attachments:
inbaez lp 1976.jpg
#10
Quote by Rickholly74
I agree with monwobobo about that overused phrase "lawsuit era" guitar. Ibanez (more accurately Elger Co. the USA distributer of Ibanez) was sued by Gibson over the shape of the LP copy headstock that Ibanez was using. By the fall of 1976 Ibanez had already stopped using that headstock design and had created their own. (See the pic of my Ibanez LP made in Oct 1976. Note the vey un-Gibson like headstock). Every guitar made in any remote LP style the 70's has somehow become a "lawsuit era" guitar. I have even seen people trying to sell Ibanez guitars made in 1977-78 calling them "lawsuit era". They are not.
Here is a link to an article from Premier Guitar that explains it all pretty well.

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Ibanez_Lawsuit_Era_Les_Paul_Custom_Copy


good starter article but it leaves out some info. for starters lawsuit guitars are Ibanez only. yes plenty of others made "copy" guitars but most weren't of the same quality. the lawsuit guitars that are the most sought after are set neck not bolt on. while some of the bolt on guitars are very nice they still have that stigma as most Gibson players want a set neck. Ibanez also made other Gibson style guitars (as well as fender) some of which were very sharp looking.

as an aside my first "real" guitar was a mid 70s Ibanez strat copy. kinda wish I had it now as it was a pretty good copy.
#11
I could've bought the bolt on necked version of the Ibanez LP Copy with opened book headstock for $200 CAD back in 76 or 77 at Weiner's Pawn Shop in Ottawa. He had an s-load hanging from the ceiling of the shop. Bodies were multi-ply wood IIRC and while they were fairly decent there were no Gibson. Never actually got to see a set neck copy but did have a Ibanez Performer Series (400 I think) in the music store I worked in a couple of years later.
Moving on.....
#12
I sorta agree and sorta don't about mid 70s guitars from Japan.

A true "Lawsuit" Ibanez was a very good replica of an original Gibson.

A "Lawsuit Era" guitar was one of the many knockoff Japanese replica guitars under many different brands, some of which were made right alongside the Ibanez guitars in the same factories in the 70s. There were several different grades of these "Era" guitars and the best of them played and sounded better than a Norlin Gibson USA of the same period. Those guitars had set necks and excellent build quality and hardware. They don't have the same pedigree, serial # or market value as a true Gibson USA but there are some excellent players out there on the cheap. If you find one of those under $500 it is probably a great player that will be in stealth mode because no one knows what it is.

The other grades had lower build quality, bolt-on necks, lesser hardware, and pickups were hit and miss. Some are still Squire quality student guitars and some were just awful... suitable as wall art only. I would never buy an "Era" guitar at an auction or long distance without playing it first for this reason.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY
Last edited by Cajundaddy at Nov 26, 2014,
#13
oh lawdy.

you don't actually want a bolt on neck les paul.

please say you're kidding.

i had a memphis les paul back in the 80s. the last thing i'd want now is a memphis les paul.

except maybe to hang in the garage.

find a nice MIJ burny, bacchus, orville, epiphone, ibanez, tokai, greco, etc and settle down in the suburbs.
#14
Quote by Cajundaddy
I sorta agree and sorta don't about mid 70s guitars from Japan.

A true "Lawsuit" Ibanez was a very good replica of an original Gibson.

A "Lawsuit Era" guitar was one of the many knockoff Japanese replica guitars under many different brands, some of which were made right alongside the Ibanez guitars in the same factories in the 70s. There were several different grades of these "Era" guitars and the best of them played and sounded better than a Norlin Gibson USA of the same period. Those guitars had set necks and excellent build quality and hardware. They don't have the same pedigree, serial # or market value as a true Gibson USA but there are some excellent players out there on the cheap. If you find one of those under $500 it is probably a great player that will be in stealth mode because no one knows what it is.

The other grades had lower build quality, bolt-on necks, lesser hardware, and pickups were hit and miss. Some are still Squire quality student guitars and some were just awful... suitable as wall art only. I would never buy an "Era" guitar at an auction or long distance without playing it first for this reason.


I agree in principal with what you are saying but the truth of the matter is that when most use the term "lawsuit" in connection with a Japanese copy guitar it's done to imply that the guitar being sold is one of those that is right up there with a name brand axe. most people don't know which ones are the "good" ones and which are crap. there really are few models that were set neck and high quality. yes many made fine beginner guitars and were very playable and didn't sound bad. this doesn't however warrant the silly prices that are often asked.
#15
My Ibanez (above) has a bolt on neck and has played great for 38 years. Why do people accept bolt on necks on just about any other guitar but think an LP shaped modal can't sound good with a bolt on neck. Do Strats, Teles or nay other guitar suck because they have bolt on necks? Trust me, my Ibanez sounds great and I am Les Paul lover all round. If it is done right and the neck is good tight fit in the pocket it will sound good.
#16
Quote by Rickholly74
My Ibanez (above) has a bolt on neck and has played great for 38 years. Why do people accept bolt on necks on just about any other guitar but think an LP shaped modal can't sound good with a bolt on neck. Do Strats, Teles or nay other guitar suck because they have bolt on necks? Trust me, my Ibanez sounds great and I am Les Paul lover all round. If it is done right and the neck is good tight fit in the pocket it will sound good.

It's not a matter of them not sounding good, it's just that the bolt-on necked ones are lesser quality than the set neck ones.
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#17
Quote by Rickholly74
My Ibanez (above) has a bolt on neck and has played great for 38 years. Why do people accept bolt on necks on just about any other guitar but think an LP shaped modal can't sound good with a bolt on neck. Do Strats, Teles or nay other guitar suck because they have bolt on necks? Trust me, my Ibanez sounds great and I am Les Paul lover all round. If it is done right and the neck is good tight fit in the pocket it will sound good.


not a matter of if the neck is done correctly at all. a "real" Les Paul has a set neck and only the cheapest Epi versions don't. matter of perception. many feel (right or wrong) that set neck is better and certainly this goes for Gibson players as that is the way Gibson has always done it. you really don't see set neck strats or teles either so the players of those guitars see bolt on as being the "right" way. guitar players are a funny bunch and have an ingrained idea of what is "correct" whether it is or not.
#18
Quote by lucky1978
By any chance are you talking about the one for sale on the Cleveland Craigslist? I agree with the others, $100 tops, I highly doubt its worth anything near $350



I'm not sure. I'll have to look it up. I saw it twice for different prices. I look at it now and it looks like crap. Check out this stuff. This is the same guy offering different prices.

https://reverb.com/item/308881-vintage-crestwood-mij-les-paul-1970s-law-suit-era-sunburst

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Crestwood-MIJ-Les-Paul-1970s-Law-Suit-Era-Sunburst-/161495493102?pt=Guitar&hash=item2599e1a9ee

I can't find the Cleveland ad.
Yeah this guitar is in crappy shape. No deal. I'll wait.
I can't believe this dude thinks this guitar is anywhere worth what he's asking. I'm ready to go back and offer $50 just to see if he'll take it.
#19
Quote by Rickholly74
I agree with monwobobo about that overused phrase "lawsuit era" guitar. Ibanez (more accurately Elger Co. the USA distributer of Ibanez) was sued by Gibson over the shape of the LP copy headstock that Ibanez was using. By the fall of 1976 Ibanez had already stopped using that headstock design and had created their own. (See the pic of my Ibanez LP made in Oct 1976. Note the vey un-Gibson like headstock). Every guitar made in any remote LP style the 70's has somehow become a "lawsuit era" guitar. I have even seen people trying to sell Ibanez guitars made in 1977-78 calling them "lawsuit era". They are not.
Here is a link to an article from Premier Guitar that explains it all pretty well.

http://www.premierguitar.com/articles/Ibanez_Lawsuit_Era_Les_Paul_Custom_Copy



I follow you!! Good info.
Same to the other guy above who offered info too!!
#20
Quote by monwobobbo
good starter article but it leaves out some info. for starters lawsuit guitars are Ibanez only. yes plenty of others made "copy" guitars but most weren't of the same quality. the lawsuit guitars that are the most sought after are set neck not bolt on. while some of the bolt on guitars are very nice they still have that stigma as most Gibson players want a set neck. Ibanez also made other Gibson style guitars (as well as fender) some of which were very sharp looking.

as an aside my first "real" guitar was a mid 70s Ibanez strat copy. kinda wish I had it now as it was a pretty good copy.



That as well is good info. I'll check out some Ibanez because you and some others have mentioned them.
Yeah, this being my first ever brand of guitar and the fact that it played so well has had me looking for one.
I'm also looking for an Ibanez Musician MC500 or maybe an MC300 that aren't outrageously overpriced.
#21
Quote by Cajundaddy
I sorta agree and sorta don't about mid 70s guitars from Japan.

A true "Lawsuit" Ibanez was a very good replica of an original Gibson.

A "Lawsuit Era" guitar was one of the many knockoff Japanese replica guitars under many different brands, some of which were made right alongside the Ibanez guitars in the same factories in the 70s. There were several different grades of these "Era" guitars and the best of them played and sounded better than a Norlin Gibson USA of the same period. Those guitars had set necks and excellent build quality and hardware. They don't have the same pedigree, serial # or market value as a true Gibson USA but there are some excellent players out there on the cheap. If you find one of those under $500 it is probably a great player that will be in stealth mode because no one knows what it is.

The other grades had lower build quality, bolt-on necks, lesser hardware, and pickups were hit and miss. Some are still Squire quality student guitars and some were just awful... suitable as wall art only. I would never buy an "Era" guitar at an auction or long distance without playing it first for this reason.



Mine had had really nice PAF style pickups when I bought it. They sounded pretty good. Unfortunately at the time I did not know about adjusting the truss rod to get the proper bow and straightness on that neck and I knew nothing about intonation or action height. At one point it was stolen from my house and the police tracked it to the person the thief sold it to. When he had it he totally re-adjusted and set up everything in addition to swapping out the "PAFs" for some real Seymour Duncans. NICE. I got it back nicer than it was when it was stolen. HA HA
#22
Quote by Rickholly74
My Ibanez (above) has a bolt on neck and has played great for 38 years. Why do people accept bolt on necks on just about any other guitar but think an LP shaped modal can't sound good with a bolt on neck. Do Strats, Teles or nay other guitar suck because they have bolt on necks? Trust me, my Ibanez sounds great and I am Les Paul lover all round. If it is done right and the neck is good tight fit in the pocket it will sound good.



As a musician I play Fender. I do not mind which type neck it is, I'm just fine with a bolt on neck. I think a very lot of it all comes down to being familiar with your gear. Teles and Strats are my favorites. I have an Epiphone Semi Hollow that has a set neck and I can relate to the Gibson LP is a set neck guitar. For tone *****s like me who are in a never ending search for the perfect tone some say set neck create warmer tones and better sustain. Like I said, I'm a Fender man but I have the Epiphone and want a good Les Paul copy or an Epiphone one simply for the tones they produce to my ears that Fenders do not. Especially during recording.
#23
Quote by monwobobbo
I agree in principal with what you are saying but the truth of the matter is that when most use the term "lawsuit" in connection with a Japanese copy guitar it's done to imply that the guitar being sold is one of those that is right up there with a name brand axe. most people don't know which ones are the "good" ones and which are crap. there really are few models that were set neck and high quality. yes many made fine beginner guitars and were very playable and didn't sound bad. this doesn't however warrant the silly prices that are often asked.


Price is another matter altogether. While many top drawer lawsuit era guitars are excellent players rivaling original Gibsons, I would never pay more than $500 for one as I don't think they have intrinsic collectable value. I could be wrong but somehow I doubt it. And as has often been said... "There is a sucker born every minute."

I own one of these "Era" guitars that I bought new in 1979. A Memphis 335 w/set neck, excellent fit and finish, and the same hardware as the top Ibanez of the period. It cost about $400 then and it is probably worth about $400 now. A great player- no collector value.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

"Anybody can play. The note is only 20 percent. The attitude of the motherfucker who plays it is 80 percent." -- Miles Davis

Guthrie on tone: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zmohdG9lLqY