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#1
http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-carrying-toy-gun-dies-shot-cleveland-police/story?id=27115640

A 12-year-old boy who was shot by Cleveland police officers while carrying a replica gun in a park playground has died, hospital officials said today.

The boy, identified by the Cuyahoga County Medical Examiner's Office as Tamir Rice, died at MetroHealth Medical Center after he was taken there for surgery Saturday afternoon, according to the medical examiner.

Officers were called to the Cudell Recreation Center after receiving reports of the boy waving a gun and pointing it at people, the Cleveland Division of Police said in a statement.

Two officers found Rice in the playground and ordered him to raise his hands, but he instead reached for what the officers thought was a gun in his waistband, police said.

The officers fired twice, hitting the boy in the torso.

Officers learned the gun was fake after the shooting, police said. Made to resemble a semi-automatic pistol, the orange safety indicator had been removed from the "airsoft" replica gun the boy was holding, police said.

The witness who made the initial 911 call to police told the dispatcher that the boy's gun may not have been real and that he was a juvenile, according to audio released by the Cleveland Police Department on Sunday.


I couldn't find any threads on this but holy ****
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Last edited by CaptainCanti at Nov 24, 2014,
#2
Yeah but what about Ferguson?
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#3
I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it, but just gonna say, there's a reason the orange tip is on airsoft/BB guns.
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#4
Shoot first, ask questions later.
dirtbag ballet by the bins down the alley
as i walk through the chalet of the shadow of death
everything that you've come to expect


#5
he shouldn't gave died for this but what an idiot for bringing a replica bb gun and pointing it at people. White Black Blue or Purple that's just incredibly stupid.

This is terrible police work, but this doesn't seem like a problem of race. This seems like a problem of stupidity from both parties that unfortunately ended fatally.


Edit: I'm assuming this boy was of a minority other than white because of your post about it in the Ferguson thread.
Last edited by ehbacon at Nov 24, 2014,
#6
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?
#7
hey canti

you forgot about this

The witness who made the initial 911 call to police told the dispatcher that the boy's gun may not have been real and that he was a juvenile, according to audio released by the Cleveland Police Department on Sunday.
#8
Quote by darrenram1
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?

bb gun, it's fake.

Edit: but really there shouldn't be fake guns that realistic.
#10
Quote by darrenram1
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?

It was an airsoft gun. I think everyone I knew owned either one of them or a paintball gun as a kid. You can get them everywhere.
#11
Quote by darrenram1
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?




only b/c i know tho, living in the midwest and all

(fyi i'm not even talking about airsoft/bb/paintball guns)
Last edited by Dregen at Nov 24, 2014,
#13
Quote by WCPhils
It was an airsoft gun. I think everyone I knew owned either one of them or a paintball gun as a kid. You can get them everywhere.


I know it was an airsoft gun. I was questioning the police officer's train of thought.
#14
The kid got cleansed from the gene pool, parents are failures for letting him run around a park unsupervised to begin with.


HindsightEDIT: Wow you guys are touchy touchy. It's the patriarch or matriarch's job to teach the offspring that waving around potential weapons and instruments of fear with no purpose will get them killed. You guys are are human mob of uneducated keyboard warriors if you disagree with my edited explanation.


It doesn't matter if it's fake or not, the child should understand the gravity of mortality. Even at prepubescent ages.
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
Last edited by Shredwizard445 at Nov 24, 2014,
#15
the report on this i originally saw stated that the person who called the police said it's probably fake multiple times

granted, if they really can't see it and it's in the shape of a gun and they think lives are in danger, there's a chance no blame could be on them. i think the details of whether this was something that essentially couldn't be helped or whether they were just completely trigger happy and knew it was a kid (and whether his race had anything to do with it if we're real) and knew everyone was probably safe is something you'd have to really see to understand for sure. it was at night wasn't it?

of course i haven't looked into this one a lot. it's absolutely heartbreaking whatever really happened.

Quote by Shredwizard445
The kid got cleansed from the gene pool, parents are failures for letting him run around a park unsupervised to begin with.

i generally don't like doing this sort of response anymore but ugh. complete trash here.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
Last edited by Bob_Sacamano at Nov 24, 2014,
#16
On the one hand, he's twelve.


On the other hand, he's pointing a gun (for all they know) at people and police officers.


I can see it from both sides. Would I have shot? Can't say for sure, but probably not. I feel like the police officers should have assumed that it was a toy, however when you perceive that your life is in danger you tend to make rash choices.

Don't let your kid run around in public pointing weapons (even toys) at people, parents. That should be common sense! At the same time though, if my kid ran off with his friends and found a toy somewhere and got killed because of it, I would be outraged.

At the end of the day, both parties are to blame. I say a punishment for the involved officers would be fitting, but nothing too harsh.
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
#17
Quote by darrenram1
I know it was an airsoft gun. I was questioning the police officer's train of thought.

if you think it's hard for kids to get guns in areas like Cleveland, you need to open your eyes a bit
will someone carry me across ten thousand miles under the silence
#18
Quote by darrenram1
I know it was an airsoft gun. I was questioning the police officer's train of thought.

oh, gotcha.
#19
Quote by Shredwizard445
The kid got cleansed from the gene pool, parents are failures for letting him run around a park unsupervised to begin with.


people like you need to be brutally murdered

in my opinion
#20
Quote by Godsmack_IV
this is what happens when you have a nonexistent firearms safety etiquette coupled with mass produced military simulation video games and a surplus of replica firearms that are available to children



Fixed that for you
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
#21
Quote by darrenram1
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?

i see your second post and understand this thought but in the us, just about anywhere. it's not at all unreasonable to think a 12 year old could have one here unfortunately.
Quote by Sliide90027
But as a bigoted lemming, you have so cry an Alinslyite slur revealing you lack of reason and sense.


Quote by MusicLord16
BOB 1. ur 20 and two u like evil things and idk if u worship the devil
#22
Quote by Dregen
people like you need to be brutally murdered

in my opinion



People like you are why I own a firearm.

As soon as a the other end of the spectrum of opinion is presented, you jump to thoughts of brutal violence.
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
#24
Sad situation, but I'm not terribly surprised. Let's not pretend 12 isnt old enough to know how to kill people with a gun.

Still, if he was reaching for the gun, maybe the cops should have said "stop moving or we'll shoot you" before actually shooting him.


Related: I hear a lot of "off the record" talk from cops while at work and, man, some of the shit I hear them say is so disturbing. "If you pull a knife out I'll shoot you from a distance no question". Like, he wasn't saying that he'd shoot someone attacking him. He was saying that as soon as he sees a weapon he'll shoot without any verbal warnings or commands first.
PM me for newts
Last edited by StewieSwan at Nov 24, 2014,
#25
Quote by Shredwizard445
People like you are why I own a firearm.

As soon as a the other end of the spectrum of opinion is presented, you jump to thoughts of brutal violence.


all i have left to say here is

much better you than a fucking kid. maybe you should do something useful with that gun you got. only considering you're smart enough to know how to load a bullet, unlatch the safety and pull a trigger
Last edited by Dregen at Nov 24, 2014,
#26
Not surprising at all. When I was about 13 a cop pulled her gun on me and my brother because we were outside playing with clear airsoft pistols with the orange tips still on them.
#27
Quote by StewieSwan
Sad situation, but I'm not terribly surprised. Let's not pretend 12 isnt old enough to know how to kill people with a gun.

Still, if he was reaching for the gun, maybe the cops should have said "stop moving or we'll shoot you" before actually shooting him.



thisthisthisthisthisthisthis


Half of the cops I know are ex-frat dumbasses who couldn't get their associates in business administration so they "copped out" (teehee)

The other half are ex-military crewcut weapons who are deadeye quickdraw marksman that love making excuses to discharge rounds of ammunition

But I also live near the capital of this here Union where we have more cops than fast food employees
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
#29
Actually I bet this kid got shot because he was white.

Think about it... all the mass shootings... some white kid.

White people be crazy.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#30
Quote by darrenram1
I'm not going to pretend I know anything about US gun laws but where the **** would a 12 year old get a gun?


When I was 12 we once just unscrewed the door to my buddies dads gun cabinet (why the screws were on the outside... I don't know).

Also, shitty parenting, an idiot 12 year old, and (most likely) shitty police officers caused this. Now, if the kid was anything like me and my brothers, he painted over the orange tip. Unfortunately for the kid, his parents failed to teach him the very important lesson of NEVER taking airsoft guns out in public. The few times we would ride around on bikes with airsoft guns, we had the clear ones. Also, he was 12. When my dad told me this I was just like JFC SMH.
Last edited by CaptainRon at Nov 24, 2014,
#31
I usually am more for just gun control in general
but how about
****ing
cop control
this house is bitchin
#32
Quote by Dregen
all i have left to say here is

much better you than a fucking kid. maybe you should do something useful with that gun you got. only considering you're smart enough to know how to load a bullet, unlatch the safety and pull a trigger



All I have left to say here is


You can't really take a self-righteous attitude and put yourself on a holier-than-thou pedestal and then encourage someone to commit suicide. I know you're all worked up over a difference of opinion but that's no excuse to stoop to such a level of vitriol; especially over text where things get lost in translation.

You're actually less than half the human being I am
Legato and fluidity in your playing is where it's at

DJENT!!
ಠ_ಠ
#33
Think about this.

Dad fears thugs in his neighborhood. The house has been broken into multiple times. Without sufficient funds to move or pay for a security system, he feels he has no other choice than to guard his wife and children by purchasing a small pistol which he stores close to his bed in an unsuspecting shoebox. He does not tell his children because he does not want them to have to think about the possibility of their father shooting someone in their own home.

One day his 12 year old son asks to go with a group of his friends to the park. Sure, no problem with that. Little does he know that the child accidentally found the loaded gun, thinking it was a toy, and had it tucked between his waistband.


Later that day the father receives a call. His son is dead because he was pointing a gun at pedestrians and police officers.


In this scenario, what changes from the police officers perspective? Nothing. Real gun or not, the officer has to assume that it is real until he is sure. What changes from the civilian's perspective (the one who called in and reported it)? Nothing. Real gun or not, the civilian still would have assumed that it was fake.

I cant exactly blame the parents, because sitting down with your children and telling then not to point toy guns at people isn't exactly something you think you have to do until you observe that behavior. If the parents were the type to always keep the child away from fire arms and toy replica fire arms, they would have never had the chance. We cant assume that the gun was his, as it could have been a friends.

The more I think about it, the more I side with the cops. But still... a hard decision.
...it was bright as the sun, but with ten times the heat
#34
Lol police.

Police lol.
Most of the important things


in the world have been accomplished


by people who have kept on


trying when there seemed to be no hope at all
#35
Quote by c3powil
I cant exactly blame the parents, because sitting down with your children and telling then not to point toy guns at people isn't exactly something you think you have to do until you observe that behavior.


I'm not sure about gun happy US, but here you have to be 18 to buy an airsoft gun. So either it's his older brother or buddies brothers irresponsible fault, or his parents are in fact shitty parents. When you buy your kid an airsoft gun there are two (or three) rules:

1. Always wear eye protection and never point it at your eye (also if the kid hasn't watched A Christmas Story it explains the shitty parenting)

2. Don't take it out in public and an in particular don't point it at police.

In Canada, it's law for airsoft guns to have orange tips. The gun in the video does not have an orange tip, absolving the officers of absolutely all blame unless it can be proven that the kid didn't point it at them. I'm not cynical enough to believe two cops doing their everyday job just wanted to kill some 12 year old.

Quote by Baby Joel
I'm still not entirely sure how I feel about it, but just gonna say, there's a reason the orange tip is on airsoft/BB guns.


Even then it's really not going to appear that orange if you're looking at it dead on. It will appear to be a narrow ring of orange which may not even be distinguishable at a distance (on some airsoft guns, other guns will have a much more obvious tip).

They show the gun (although they idiotically cover up part of the tip) at the beginning of the video and it definitely looks like the kid painted over the tip.
Last edited by CaptainRon at Nov 24, 2014,
#36
while there is a certain amount of blame that can be attributed to the police the kid is almost certainly at fault for being a complete fucking idiot and ignoring the basic safety protocols you should be taking when possessing things that look nearly identical to dangerous firearms if you ignore the protocols.
#37
You'd think cops could have a different level of reaction to this situation. There should be a higher standard of operating and acceptance of risk that comes with the privilege of holding a badge. Instead police are put on a pedestal and their actions defended from the fearful view of the average citizen. For ****s sake, if the reports hold true, the kid didn't even get the "gun" out of his pants, and they had to shoot. Yeah, maybe they feared for their safety or even lives, but they're cops, that's what they signed up for. Jeezuz.
#38
No, I wouldn't think they would have a different reaction level because my parents did their job by teaching me that pointing a gun at a police officer = getting shot the fuck up.

It's two cops word vs. the word of a bunch of bystanders that were likely kids. If there was any parent or adult there, they should have engaged the cop when they saw them pull up otherwise they are also in fact shitty parents and braindead. Unfortunately, when we get an accumulation of people without thinking ability, bad things happen.

Edit: maybe the cops should be skeptical when its a 12 year old, but I'm not going to fault them too much. The real question here is why didn't they have a tazer on them?
Last edited by CaptainRon at Nov 24, 2014,
#39
Quote by CaptainRon
The real question here is why didn't they have a tazer on them?

Because then they wouldn't have have an excuse to shoot an unarmed black person.
this house is bitchin
#40
Quote by CaptainCanti
Because then they wouldn't have have an excuse to shoot an unarmed black person.

Or maybe because they are not willing to commit the resources to train the vast bulk of the police force and buy/maintain the equipment. It is a problem when the police do not have enough non-lethal methods of dealing with potential threats because that just makes it easier to use lethal force. To state that this is deliberate is entirely without evidence and the likely reason is simply not being willing to make the financial commitment. Which is a problem because it certainly needs to happen as it can prevent deaths.
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