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#1
I'm looking to buy new home speakers on Black Friday. I'll be using them just for general movie watching, music, and video games. However, I know little to nothing about sound specifications or what makes speakers actually quality.

I've found this at Best Buy

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/klipsch-reference-dual-8-floorstanding-speaker-each/6228118.p?id=1219198829056&skuId=6228118



The reviews are all positive, although not very informative. Retail says $449.99, but Black Friday sale lists it at $224.99. It seems to be exactly what I'm looking for, but I'm only really basing that on the fact that I think it looks cool and it's 50% off.

I ask for your expertise Pit, can you help me with my purchase?
#2
Well, the spec on that site tells you sod all so unless you provide a link to a site with a proper specification you're relying on people being bothered to research it for you instead of just translating some specs into language you can understand.

What kind of pro audio gear has a frequency response listed without a variance rating though, for example (at the least +/- _ dB, with an indication of resolution over a max. range if possible)?

Also, while it would work for what you want obviously, it's not designed to be for home cinema from what I can gather, but as far field reference monitors in a studio.
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#3
I think more importantly than the speakers is the treatment of the room. If you have a room that does not mitigate reflections and has uneven frequency responses, a good set of speakers is a waste.

Generally, the higher the price the better the speakers. With that said, even a baseline is fine for most people. The room matters a lot more.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#4
respond quickly again so we dont assume youre an adbot.
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#5
Quote by Xiaoxi
I think more importantly than the speakers is the treatment of the room. If you have a room that does not mitigate reflections and has uneven frequency responses, a good set of speakers is a waste.

Generally, the higher the price the better the speakers. With that said, even a baseline is fine for most people. The room matters a lot more.

Lol, good luck describing how to treat a room, on a budget, to someone who openly admits they don't understand speaker specs I imagine if it's for a home cinema set up, he's not gonna wanna put reflection absorbers on the wall and a Helmholtz resonator in the corner, either.
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#6
Ah see I didn't even realize that the specs on the Best Buy site weren't adequate. Shows all I know

Here's the actual Klipsch sites specs. I'm not sure where to find anything more detailed.

http://www.klipsch.com/R-28F/details

I suppose the room is just a normal living room, I'm not sure exactly what details are significant.

And if these aren't really designed for home theater use, what sort of speakers should I be looking into? I apologize if I'm asking a lot.
#7
Quote by Xiaoxi


Generally, the higher the price the better the speakers.

true words of wisdom. solid advice. 9/10 would definitely derp again
pinga
#8
Uh unless you have some seriously discerning audiophile friends (or nerds who j-off to surround sound), these will be great for your setup.
My God, it's full of stars!
#9
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Lol, good luck describing how to treat a room, on a budget, to someone who openly admits they don't understand speaker specs I imagine if it's for a home cinema set up, he's not gonna wanna put reflection absorbers on the wall and a Helmholtz resonator in the corner, either.

Psh, it doesn't have to be full on studio quality. Putting up some fiberglass panels in key areas of a regular living room does wonders. A few bass traps in the corners wouldn't hurt. If done correctly they make your living room way more sophisticated looking too.

I just think it's a huge waste of money to be buying home theater sound system without the room being fitted for that first. Only thing I'd hear clearly and accurately is the sound of money being flushed down the toilet.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#10
Quote by Cb4rabid
true words of wisdom. solid advice. 9/10 would definitely derp again

Hey guess what, you sad Florida living bum. For some things, that is the case.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#11
What are the (approx.) dimensions of your room, and what sort of shape is it? Those are what matters most, and then where is your tv/proposed location of speakers in that room and is there much furniture behind the listening position, and to the sides?

As for speakers, you're probably looking more for hi-fi sort of speaker setups but if you're spending money on a home cinema system maybe a 5.1 surround sound setup would be more worth your investment? Would give a more immersive, and more cinema-like, experience than just high-quality stereo sound for the picture.

That spec is a little better btw, but still not entirely honest (when it says frequency response, a company truly confident in their product's spec would list how much the frequency will move above and below a flat line between the stated lowest and highest frequencies produced). I don't really delve into home cinema and hi-fi stuff, so don't know if the brand are established or not, but I wouldn't imagine this is high-end stuff, just better than the moderate consumer level gear people buy blindly from supermarket and consumer electronics stores.

It'd be an improvement over your tv's speaker(s) and over most entry-level stuff, but couldn't tell you much more.
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#12
Quote by Xiaoxi
Hey guess what, you sad Florida living bum. For some things, that is the case.

whhhhhhhhaaaat? you dont ****ing say? shit, no wonder. who would've thought you spend more money and you get...more?

slow down dude im trying to take notes here
pinga
#13
Quote by Xiaoxi
Psh, it doesn't have to be full on studio quality. Putting up some fiberglass panels in key areas of a regular living room does wonders. A few bass traps in the corners wouldn't hurt. If done correctly they make your living room way more sophisticated looking too.

I just think it's a huge waste of money to be buying home theater sound system without the room being fitted for that first. Only thing I'd hear clearly and accurately is the sound of money being flushed down the toilet.


See I've always wanted a better understanding of this sort of thing. I wouldn't mind putting up stuff like this eventually if it didn't douche up the place too much
#14
Quote by Dreadnought
Uh unless you have some seriously discerning audiophile friends (or nerds who j-off to surround sound), these will be great for your setup.

As much as I've said otherwise (in terms of achieving best possible sound) it's very true that most people you have round either won't care or will think it sounds fine.


And Xiaoxi, my point was more that I don't think it's wise trying to tell TS to treat his room over getting fancy speakers - it's more likely to end in imperfect DIY just looking nasty on his/her walls for all the good intentions in the world, than flattening out the frequency response of the room at the listening point.
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#15
I would seriously like to have a nice home theater setup, but it's pretty damn expensive, and number like 11 on my list of things to spend the money I don't have on
My God, it's full of stars!
#16
Quote by TwinkyFist
See I've always wanted a better understanding of this sort of thing. I wouldn't mind putting up stuff like this eventually if it didn't douche up the place too much

The two easiest things to do are figure out the main paths for audio to reflect off walls/ceiling etc. and reach your ears - at those main points of reflection, we'd place some form of absorptive foam with uneven surface, to bounce the sound off in other directions and to dampen some high end too. Likewise, behind you, a bookcase or two along the wall is a less destructive/eye-offending option that will also refract the sound away from your ears.

Then, in terms of taming low end buildup, stuff exists like big tubes (resonators) that can tune the low end of the room and balance stuff out. You won't be able to do anything major to the low end, though, as that would require restructuring the walls and foundations of the room.
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#17
Quote by DisarmGoliath
What are the (approx.) dimensions of your room, and what sort of shape is it? Those are what matters most, and then where is your tv/proposed location of speakers in that room and is there much furniture behind the listening position, and to the sides?

As for speakers, you're probably looking more for hi-fi sort of speaker setups but if you're spending money on a home cinema system maybe a 5.1 surround sound setup would be more worth your investment? Would give a more immersive, and more cinema-like, experience than just high-quality stereo sound for the picture.

That spec is a little better btw, but still not entirely honest (when it says frequency response, a company truly confident in their product's spec would list how much the frequency will move above and below a flat line between the stated lowest and highest frequencies produced). I don't really delve into home cinema and hi-fi stuff, so don't know if the brand are established or not, but I wouldn't imagine this is high-end stuff, just better than the moderate consumer level gear people buy blindly from supermarket and consumer electronics stores.

It'd be an improvement over your tv's speaker(s) and over most entry-level stuff, but couldn't tell you much more.


It seems I'm jumping the gun a little with this purchase due to Black Friday sales. I'm planning on moving in the coming months and I don't know the dimensions or layout of the living room.

Would you by chance have recommendations of something like that around the same price for comparison?
#18
Quote by Cb4rabid
whhhhhhhhaaaat? you dont ****ing say? shit, no wonder. who would've thought you spend more money and you get...more?

slow down dude im trying to take notes here

To someone who's not savvy on the technical details here, that is basically the simplest and best guideline they can stick with.

My god, I know living in Florida is awful but you don't need to take it out on the rest of us.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#19
Quote by DisarmGoliath

And Xiaoxi, my point was more that I don't think it's wise trying to tell TS to treat his room over getting fancy speakers - it's more likely to end in imperfect DIY just looking nasty on his/her walls for all the good intentions in the world, than flattening out the frequency response of the room at the listening point.

...really not much harder than putting up a picture or art frame...




...modes and scales are still useless.


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#20
Quote by TwinkyFist
It seems I'm jumping the gun a little with this purchase due to Black Friday sales. I'm planning on moving in the coming months and I don't know the dimensions or layout of the living room.

Would you by chance have recommendations of something like that around the same price for comparison?

Eeeh, like I said - I'm not really into the home cinema or hi-fi markets. I'm more in an audio engineering field of interest so brands/models etc. I know about are not really aimed at commercial home listening and are probably not ideal for what you want.

I think Dreadnought is the guy who likes hi-fi equipment (I'm sure we spoke about it a long time ago) so can probably help you more, or maybe someone else will enter the thread. If you look around in your budget though, I'll happily try and help you with certain models you are considering.

I don't think worrying too much about the room is an issue, but if you want to spend a considerable amount of money on speakers it is something worth bearing in mind. At least in audio engineering, anyone will tell you a half-decent pair of entry level monitors in a great room will be more valuable and accurate than a $2k+ (per speaker) set in a room with horrible reflections and resonances.
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#21
Quote by DisarmGoliath
At least in audio engineering, anyone will tell you a half-decent pair of entry level monitors in a great room will be more valuable and accurate than a $2k+ (per speaker) set in a room with horrible reflections and resonances.

...you just said what I said lol


bottom line is this: I gather TS is not an actual "audiophile" based on his questions. Nothin wrong with that. Just trying to be practical and cost effective here. Hanging a few fiberglass panels on your walls + an ok set of speakers gives you the most noticeable results and maximizes the utility of your spending.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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Last edited by Xiaoxi at Nov 25, 2014,
#22
Quote by Xiaoxi
...really not much harder than putting up a picture or art frame...




Those are minimalist, and effectively showrooms - how many people are realistically going to have that as their living room? In place of the panels, you're gonna see picture frames, paintings/artwork and things in front of the wall like cupboards etc.


Be realistic, yes reflections and treatment matter but there are things like home comforts that matter more to the average consumer who just wants to beef up their tv/blu-ray player combo

Quote by Xiaoxi
...you just said what I said lol

I know, I'm not saying you're wrong - I'm acknowledging the truth on the matter - but I'm saying it doesn't matter to the average person so it's a balance, especially in a living room. In a mix room, yeah it's dumb to spend tons on speakers and not have a good room, but we're not talking mix rooms.
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#23
Quote by DisarmGoliath
Those are minimalist, and effectively showrooms - how many people are realistically going to have that as their living room? In place of the panels, you're gonna see picture frames, paintings/artwork and things in front of the wall like cupboards etc.

Well he did mention he was moving soon so at least he'll keep that in mind.

A friend of mine moved into his very own place earlier this year. It's been empty all this time but last month he bought some sound bar and sub to go along with his TV. Nothing else in his living room. Just bare floor and a couch.

My god...it sounds like utter shit. I urged him several times to put up panels and he didn't listen. Of course he comes around AFTER that point.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#24
I think it's worth mentioning that you're gonna need a power amp for these, seeing as they're passive speakers. Be prepared to spend another 300 or so on a power amp.
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#25
Quote by oneblackened
I think it's worth mentioning that you're gonna need a power amp for these, seeing as they're passive speakers. Be prepared to spend another 300 or so on a power amp.


Lol, I feel like such an infant. Tell me about these magical "power amps".
#26
It's pretty comparable to a guitar amp in the sense that signal in->louder signal out, but flatter and without an EQ or a preamp attached to it. Crown makes a good one at the $300 price point - the XLS1000. It'll drive the speakers fine (215w/channel at 8 ohms).
Current Gear:
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PRS SE Custom 24 (Suhr SSH+/SSV)
Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
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Peavey Revalver 4, UAD Friedman BE100/DS40
Adam S3A monitors
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#27
Well, passive speakers mean they have nothing inside them to amplify the sound from the level it is sent down the cable to the speakers. A power amp basically just amplifies the sound hugely, as cleanly as possible (a preamp, on the other hand, amplifies the signal a little but is used more for shaping the sound before amplification on the power amp scale of things).

Basically, if you have passive speakers you need a separate amp to power them. If you don't want to look for this, and match them all up, you'll want 'active' speakers, which already have poweramps built in.
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#28
I don't mind getting things piece by piece, that's pretty much the plan anyway for the new place. I should ask though, how would passive speakers sound without a power amp? Is it just too quiet?
#29
Quote by TwinkyFist
I don't mind getting things piece by piece, that's pretty much the plan anyway for the new place. I should ask though, how would passive speakers sound without a power amp? Is it just too quiet?

They wouldn't. Line level signals wouldn't even move the things.
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Ibanez RG3120 Prestige (Dimarzio Titans)
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Adam S3A monitors
Quote by Anonden
You CAN play anything with anything....but some guitars sound right for some things, and not for others. Single coils sound retarded for metal, though those who are apeshit about harpsichord probably beg to differ.
#30
They wouldn't sound at all - there's no power for the speakers

Edit: Beaten to the post
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#31
Lol, thank you guys for being patient with me. Now is there a benefit to getting active speakers over passive speakers, outside obviously of not having to buy the power amp?
#32
Quote by TwinkyFist
Lol, thank you guys for being patient with me. Now is there a benefit to getting active speakers over passive speakers, outside obviously of not having to buy the power amp?


Yes. The amp and drivers are matched exactly to work together as a system so they often sound better, are more reliable, and cost less in the long run. I own several of each but will probably never buy passive speakers again.
"Your sound is in your hands as much as anything. It's the way you pick, and the way you hold the guitar, more than it is the amp or the guitar you use." -- Stevie Ray Vaughan

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#33
Quote by TwinkyFist
Lol, thank you guys for being patient with me. Now is there a benefit to getting active speakers over passive speakers, outside obviously of not having to buy the power amp?

They can be much heavier, not as loud, and can be more of a hassle to hook up with your TV. Most TV software are designed to work with a standalone power amp which communicates with the TV.

I don't think you need a $300 power amp. Maybe $200-250 tops.

...modes and scales are still useless.


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#36
Quote by Xiaoxi
Well he did mention he was moving soon so at least he'll keep that in mind.

A friend of mine moved into his very own place earlier this year. It's been empty all this time but last month he bought some sound bar and sub to go along with his TV. Nothing else in his living room. Just bare floor and a couch.

My god...it sounds like utter shit. I urged him several times to put up panels and he didn't listen. Of course he comes around AFTER that point.


I remember when I lived at home and change rooms for lulz. When my old room was totally empty, I played guitar in it, and it was as if I was in a frigging tunnel haha.

Also some rooms sound super nice. At a friend of mine I always walk through the room with an acoustic guitar while playing. He has some serious nice spots. He has a lot of wood furniture, and full wooden floor, so maybe that's it. It gives a nice kind of reflection. I also have to stand up at about 3/4 of my height for best equal reflections.

I also found this loading dock, that at a certain distances, gives exactly the Van Halen slapback delay in time whilst playing acoustic staccato . It's a very long alleyway, but very small, but very high walls. It's amazing to play with a delay coming out of nowhere, that's actually workable rhythmically. Should go there with some real loud string stabs. The fun part is you can actually adjust the time depending on ur distance with enough of an audible echo.

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Last edited by xxdarrenxx at Nov 26, 2014,
#37
I'm an audiophile. That means I try and **** people in the ear, right?

It's pretty difficult,cos even tho I'm not tiny, people's ears are
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#39
Quote by Xiaoxi
Well he did mention he was moving soon so at least he'll keep that in mind.

A friend of mine moved into his very own place earlier this year. It's been empty all this time but last month he bought some sound bar and sub to go along with his TV. Nothing else in his living room. Just bare floor and a couch.

My god...it sounds like utter shit. I urged him several times to put up panels and he didn't listen. Of course he comes around AFTER that point.

still sort of missing his point :p
#40
If you're looking for a high-fi set up on a reasonable budget second hand is the way to go as you can get ridiculously good equipment for entry level money. High-fi systems will sound great with movies as well as music, so don't feel the need for 5.1 unless you have tons of $$$

Xiaoxi is right on with the amplifier price, around $200 is all you really need to spend. You can pick up a great set of speakers for around $150 - $200. Cheap out on cables and cd/blu ray players, they all sound the same. Look into old school Mission 700 series speakers.
Last edited by Duffman123 at Nov 26, 2014,
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