#1
so im really keen on getting into music i have loads of ideas but im stuck as where to go next?

every time ive asked i get a multitude of different answers and my brain works in such a way that theres so much to learn i cant start anywhere!

im a competent player i know all major minor dominant 7th and minor 7th chords as a starting point chord wise, i only know the a minor pentatonic scale.

i really wanna find a band and make music, bluesy rock prog really, and i know i have so mucjh to learn in order to be confident with myself, right now i couldnt dare be in a band cause id get found out for such a lack of theory knowledge!

can anyone advise as im entirely self taught for 8 years now, where do i go next, what should i be learning, songs? from start to finish, i tried that but again i try to learn with my ear and i just get found out.

should i learn the notes on the fretboard, or chord progressions? or just try write whats in my head or just go with a particular chord or note and such?

if you consider yourself a good gutiarist please let me know how you did it!
#2
1. Learn fundamental theory, which is a term I made up myself, but refers to: scale structure, harmony, chords, melody, rhythm, etc.

2. Learn the fretboard, it's just one big overlapping pattern.

3. Learn as many scale shapes as you can. For guitarists in particular, the basic blues scale shape is essential. Scale shapes are also movable, so an A minor blues scale (on the A string, for example) is the same as a G minor blues scale, just down two frets.

4. Develop your ear. Learn where melodies reside in the scale of the key, learn where the chords are as well, etc. You could start by listening to pop music, as the progressions and melodies are simple and followable. Once you've got a grasp on that, move to more complicated music like Jazz and you'll be a guitar god in no-time.

5. Going off the last point, musical genres have specific progressions that are common/stereotypical of themselves. Find them with your ear or through reading, and you'll develop some structure to your writing. For example, blues has a 1 4 1 5 1 progression stapled to its name.

tl;dr learn everything you don't know
Last edited by Will Lane at Dec 2, 2014,
#4
dude you dont need to know shit about music to play music.
if it sounds good then its fine.

sure it will help, but you dont need to be a theory wizard.
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#5
Quote by PinkZepStones
so im really keen on getting into music i have loads of ideas but im stuck as where to go next?

every time ive asked i get a multitude of different answers and my brain works in such a way that theres so much to learn i cant start anywhere!

im a competent player i know all major minor dominant 7th and minor 7th chords as a starting point chord wise, i only know the a minor pentatonic scale.

i really wanna find a band and make music, bluesy rock prog really, and i know i have so mucjh to learn in order to be confident with myself, right now i couldnt dare be in a band cause id get found out for such a lack of theory knowledge!

can anyone advise as im entirely self taught for 8 years now, where do i go next, what should i be learning, songs? from start to finish, i tried that but again i try to learn with my ear and i just get found out.

should i learn the notes on the fretboard, or chord progressions? or just try write whats in my head or just go with a particular chord or note and such?

if you consider yourself a good gutiarist please let me know how you did it!


TAKE LESSONS
shred is gaudy music
#6
Quote by Will Lane
3. Learn as many scale shapes as you can. For guitarists in particular, the basic blues scale shape is essential. Scale shapes are also movable, so an A minor blues scale (on the A string, for example) is the same as a G minor blues scale, just down two frets.

Or, you know, just learn the fretboard and then learn the notes/intervals of certain scales.

Shapes are like kindergarten level. Why bother to learn the fretboard if you're gonna go and use shapes?

Quote by the_white_bunny
dude you dont need to know shit about music to play music.
if it sounds good then its fine.

sure it will help, but you dont need to be a theory wizard.

And why wouldn't you learn as much as possible?
#7
dude just go out there and play some music if you suck who the hell cares! Musics about having fun not being the best!
#8
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Or, you know, just learn the fretboard and then learn the notes/intervals of certain scales.

Shapes are like kindergarten level. Why bother to learn the fretboard if you're gonna go and use shapes?


Because that's how the instrument is set up?

I agree that understanding how it all works and fits together is the primary goal, and it's sad that there's such a large amount of guitarists that just stop at shapes, but there's nothing wrong with memorizing/using something like the five positions of the major scale as a launching point/home base or as a learning tool.

From a learning standpoint, they're useful. While I don't necessarily think learning every scale and every chord is useful, a lesson in the CAGED system (and figuring out the underlying concept there) and a lesson on chord construction and shell voicings for chords larger than a triad takes a huge difference with the learning curve.

Supplement that with some reading on chord progressions and voice leading, and you're golden
Last edited by mjones1992 at Dec 2, 2014,
#9
Quote by mjones1992
Because that's how the instrument is set up?

I agree that understanding how it all works and fits together is the primary goal, and it's sad that there's such a large amount of guitarists that just stop at shapes, but there's nothing wrong with memorizing/using something like the five positions of the major scale as a launching point/home base or as a learning tool.

From a learning standpoint, they're useful.

But that's the beginning, not the end.
#10
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
But that's the beginning, not the end.


Right.

Sorry. I was just confused. I thought you were suggesting not to bother learning or using any shapes because they were useless.
#11
Quote by crazysam23_Atax

And why wouldn't you learn as much as possible?

I think his point was that you don't need to know theory to play in a band/play music you like. Theory is great. But if you read the OP, TS said that he doesn't know theory and that's why he thinks he can't join a band. I think the best way to learn theory is to do it in practice. You learn to understand music by listening and playing it. Playing in a band is a good way to learn to play more musically.

If you know the songs your band plays, why would you need to know any theory? Just play what you are supposed to play. Ear is a lot more important in band playing.

I think one theory thing that is useful in band playing is being able to transpose. And understanding what it means if somebody says "let's play this in the key of A". But other than that, you don't need to know any complex stuff. Chord names are useful of course.
Quote by AlanHB
Just remember that there are no boring scales, just boring players.

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#12
Quote by crazysam23_Atax
Or, you know, just learn the fretboard and then learn the notes/intervals of certain scales.

Shapes are like kindergarten level. Why bother to learn the fretboard if you're gonna go and use shapes?



Our brains are hard wired to recognise shapes and patterns. Why wouldn't you utilise that ability? To dismiss the use of shapes is fundamentalist and perverse.
#13
^ Agreed. In the end it all comes down to shapes. For example scales on piano; they're just SHAPES you have memorized. Same goes for inversions and everything else.

Yes, I am well aware of the intervals they're built from, but I still see them as shapes I have memorized, because it's more efficient in real time playing. It requires less brain power to memorize them as shapes rather than think of all the intervals. The end result is still the same, you just remove useless steps from the process.

How do you use them if not as shapes? Sam, do you really think you have time to build every single scale and chord from scratch every time?

Do you go like "okay.... I have a Bb here. Now to build a Bb major chord, I just need to take a note a M3 and P5 above and have the 3 on the bass to get a first inversion......aaand done! Ok, now I need to build a G minor scale. Let's take a G, next note is a whole step up, A, next is a half step, Bb......What do you mean you guys can't wait for me all day? Shapes are for noobs! I figure out my shit from scratch in real time! All I know is the note names and intervals. I also wipe my memory every day so I don't accidentally memorize shapes."

Btw, good luck sight reading some more advanced stuff without utilizing any kind of memorized patterns.
Last edited by Elintasokas at Dec 3, 2014,
#14
Learn what the key is, what I-ii-iii-IV-V-vi-viio means, how to play those things and learn songs, naming the chords in the progressions using the numerals.

Start with the major scale. CAGED is a decent way to go imo. Some people will disagree on that.

This is the difficulty of not having a teacher you can trust. There are all kinds of musicians on forums, at all kinds of levels in all kinds of styles, with all kinds of opinions. All the information is out there, but knowing what order to learn things, which songs would be ideal for learning certain concepts maybe, techniques you should use, and what approach is best for where you want to go.

I gave you the general approach I would take. If I knew you, and saw you play, and knew where you wanted to go, then I would specific advice, which may even be different from starting with the major scale. There are a number of ways to know the major scale.

But, I'd probably start with teaching you about music in general first. That way, you'd understand why I'm teaching you what.
#15
Quote by MaggaraMarine
I think his point was that you don't need to know theory to play in a band/play music you like. Theory is great. But if you read the OP, TS said that he doesn't know theory and that's why he thinks he can't join a band. I think the best way to learn theory is to do it in practice. You learn to understand music by listening and playing it. Playing in a band is a good way to learn to play more musically.

If you know the songs your band plays, why would you need to know any theory? Just play what you are supposed to play. Ear is a lot more important in band playing.

I think one theory thing that is useful in band playing is being able to transpose. And understanding what it means if somebody says "let's play this in the key of A". But other than that, you don't need to know any complex stuff. Chord names are useful of course.



you get it. sorry i didn't elaborate on my point.

i by no means am some sort of great guitar player.
i have a really limited knowledge of theory, but i can improvise purely based on ear while playing over nearly any style of music. it just come with practice and some ear training IMO. i 100% think if i were to learn more theory it would help me become a better player. with that being said i don't think its 100% necessary to know if you want to join or start a band.
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Last edited by the_white_bunny at Dec 3, 2014,
#16
Quote by PinkZepStones
so im really keen on getting into music i have loads of ideas but im stuck as where to go next?

every time ive asked i get a multitude of different answers and my brain works in such a way that theres so much to learn i cant start anywhere!

im a competent player i know all major minor dominant 7th and minor 7th chords as a starting point chord wise, i only know the a minor pentatonic scale.

i really wanna find a band and make music, bluesy rock prog really, and i know i have so mucjh to learn in order to be confident with myself, right now i couldnt dare be in a band cause id get found out for such a lack of theory knowledge!

can anyone advise as im entirely self taught for 8 years now, where do i go next, what should i be learning, songs? from start to finish, i tried that but again i try to learn with my ear and i just get found out.

should i learn the notes on the fretboard, or chord progressions? or just try write whats in my head or just go with a particular chord or note and such?

if you consider yourself a good gutiarist please let me know how you did it!


If you're into bluesy rock, then you can fairly easily add some ideas to your minor pentatonic.

A normal situation is that, without the backing, it may not be clear from the solo whereabouts in the blues we are. So, it helps you figure out how to make that clearer to the listener:

One simple approach, to start vaguely bringing out the sounds of the chords, is to restrict your choice of note from the pentatonic so you never play a note a semitone above a chord tone. This is very restrictive, but has quite interesting results.

E.g. with blues in G, and where chord is on C(7, 9 ...), then the above would stop you playing the F (its a semitone above E in the C chord), and allow all the other notes from G m pent. When on D(7, 9 ...), this would stop you playing G and Bb.

You can then add in the 3 and/or b7 of the chord you're on.

There's a lot more can be done, but above may help some?

Good luck, Jerry
#17
Quote by crazysam23_Atax


Shapes are like kindergarten level. Why bother to learn the fretboard if you're gonna go and use shapes?



Lol, woah there, relax, kindergarten level. I predominantly use shapes. I am not kindergarten level.